Question on emailing teacher

Student Lounge College Life
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<p>Hey, I have a question about emailing a professor, if you don't mind bearing with me (I'm wordy, sorry).</p>

<p>To give background: In my freshman comp class, I'm a fraction of a point shy of an A (92.8 %), having received two 100's, a 91, and 83 on the essays and a 90 in participation, all of which are weighted equally. The essay grade I expected because while writing I was fatigued and sick with whatever was going around the dorm (lots of interesting stuff actually; one girl had whooping cough! So old school! But all her oxen survived! That was good :P) and was confused about other aspects of the assignment, but the participation grade surprised me. I was one of 3 students in a class of 12 to participate regularly from the very first class (by which I mean to make several substantial, coherent contributions per class that are both relevant to the material and unique rather than repetitive or rambling retreads). I prepared a lot, even if no writing was due; if I felt I was having difficulty processing my thoughts on the reading, I designed prompts and forced myself to write brief half page responses to streamline and clarify my ideas for discussion. I had inquired about my participation grade towards the last few weeks of the semester and was told I was in good standing for an A.</p>

<p>I figured there was one potential issue: I have a heart condition for which I take medication to prevent hypertension and while I usually have no problems in class, there was one week where I would intermittently experienced sharp pain in my arms and tightness in my chest. This occurred once during comp class, in the middle of a student presentation, and I was having trouble focusing on it. I did not think the episode would last long or that it was worth excusing myself for (especially since I didn't want to be disrupt or miss the presentation), so I put my head down for a few minutes so i could rest my chest and arms on the table and tried to keep my eyes focused on the student. I didn't think it was a huge deal though. Also, hen I asked shortly after if I could know where I stood in terms of participation, it did not appear to be. I admit, the response was very roundabout and vague, something about how I was an A student and shouldn't worry about the numbers. Still, while that may not mean much at all, it was emphasized there wasn't anything that would be considered lacking or problematic.</p>

<p>Yet now I'm told I appeared generally disinterested for the last part of the semester, because a) I did not participate in an in-class peer review by completing a worksheet without being told and b) the aforementioned incident in class. The thing is, I did participate in the review. I even arrived to class early. I responded to the worksheet in writing, only I wrote all my responses on the draft I was reviewing, so I could give it straight back to the other student as quickly as possible. I repeated everything I wrote out loud in class to the student to make sure it was clear in spite of my small handwriting. When I realized it was important to the teacher that we write on the worksheet as well, I took the draft back briefly and transferred my comments. I contributed a few comments to the following discussion as well. And as for b), why is it suddenly an issue now when it wasn't before?</p>

<p>So I wrote back to ask if we could discuss and to say that I felt there may be a misunderstanding. I said that I felt I had participated in that I arrived and began early, commented on such and such in the draft in response to question #1 and such and such in response to #2, etc., repeated things verbally (within earshot of the teacher), and, when I realized I had written in the wrong space, transferred my answers. I emphasized that I recognized the importance of the assignment and hesitated to write directly on the worksheet due to misunderstanding, not disrespect. I explained that I had this condition and that while I did put my head down, I did so because I wanted to be able to concentrate, did not want to interrupt the presentation and didn't know how else to cope. I emphasized here that I really did not mean to disrespect the presenter or appeared uninterested and asked if there were any other reasons s/he would think I was uninterested. </p>

<p>The response to all this was, 'I wish you had told me about your illness at the beginning of the semester instead of now.' That was it. The email said nothing on whether what I described of my work in peer review constituted participation or not or whether there were other reasons I was perceived as uninterested. It did not say anything else at all. </p>

<p>So my question is what do you think it means. Does this mean my questions are not considered valid? And how to respond? I would like to clarify, this is not that serious an illness IMO. I had a problems this one week, took steps to physically de-stress, started carrying less, pushed to renegotiate my roommate agreement to have a midnight lights-out policy (I'm very light sensitive even with masks; previous my roommate was going to bed 3 or 4 a.m., meaning I had to sleep elsewhere- common rooms, class rooms; it was a little colder downstairs), and I got better. I have a cardiology check-up coming up in case anyway. While it happens time to time and sure will probably happen again as the days get longer, I don't think it normally would warrant pre-emptive discussion. It was a relatively isolated incident. And since the duration was relatively short and there were no concerns when I asked afterwards, I figured there was no reason to bring it up. To be honest, I prefer to avoid discussing my health. I won't refuse if someone asks about my scar but otherwise it seems more trouble than it's worth. Is there a way to say this and bring up the previous questions that were not answered again tactfully? perhaps i could pm what i want to say to someone?</p>

<p>And yeah, I do realize this is a relatively trivial issue, so I just want to say, I know it's not a bad grade. I would like to ask anyway because I put a lot of work into all aspects of the class- wrote many, many drafts (even on the final paper while I was sick, though the effort was evidently less fruitful); came early; did a lot of preparation for discussion, etc. I would be happy with the grade in most circumstances if I had lost the points for reasons I understood, but it would be somewhat frustrating to have to accept a drop in GPA due being a fifth of a point short for what amounts IMO to a misunderstanding and an isolated incident in which I did my best to recover. I admit this is in part perfectionist tendency (not having the 4.0 cumulative on some level = loosening my hold on my post-grad aspirations; this is a CC forumite, after all), but I'm also taking a very heavy load next semester; who know if that drop may come back to haunt me at the end of the semester before scholarship renewal? I'm not going to have this teacher again, so it seems worth it to at least ask.</p>

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<p>Get over it. If you think that you have been treated unfairly, look into means for appealing your grade. At this point, it's all you've got, but what you've presented probably won't get you very far - Participation grades are by definition very subjective.</p>

<p>Also, as a precaution, (and this applies to anyone with a major medical condition) you should let your profs know at the beginning of every semester about your heart condition. Let them know what the condition is, how it manifests itself in you, what a typical episode is like and how you react, how this might affect your classwork, how often these attacks/illnesses occur and if there are any signs that are life threatening and may require them to call 911. Show them a doctor's note if need be.</p>

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<p>My advice would be to chill out and enjoy the holidays. </p>

<p>The grades in this sort of class are always totally subjective (afterall grading an essay isn't the exact science that grading say a math exam is where there are definite right and wrong answers). In such a subjective class, if the prof thought you deserved an A they would have given you an A. They have to draw the line somewhere... It sounds like perhaps you're used to always getting straight A's in high school and always being right at the top of your class. One thing that's often hard for new college students to come to terms with is that everyone's very smart and many people go from being the 'local genius' to 'just like everyone else.' </p>

<p>Don't freak out. It sounds like you still did well in this class and I'm sure you're 'post-grad aspirations' are still just fine.</p>

<p>As for the issues with your health and the grade: If you do have a serious health condition that you feel the prof should know about (especially if it means you might be missing some classes) then certainly tell them right at the beginning and be prepared to present a letter from you doctor as proper documentation. Whilst profs will certainly do what they can to accomidate any paticular situation (e.g. allowing you to take an exam at a different time if you are dealing with something related to you illness) you don't get any 'bonus points' for being sick and still need to earn the grade you get through performance just like everyone else. I obviously don't know all the details of your situation and am not suggesting that you are expecting any bonus points, but it does sound as if you want to prof to bump up your grade on the grounds that you were ill, but that's not really something they're in a position to do.</p>

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<p>Relax.</p>

<p>You've learned your lesson- it's okay to tell your professor about any conditions that might dissaude you from participating normally.</p>

<p>Seriously, don't bother calculating any grades just to find out how close you were because it'll just drive you crazy and professors have their way of grading (especially if it's on a curve which you have no way of knowing). Professors DO notice how well-prepared you are and as long you gave them a good first impression in the first few weeks, they won't count against you because most students don't pick up the slack until later. Several "missed" performances won't hurt and don't really need to be explained- they know you've worked hard and appreciate that.</p>

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<p>Get over it. If you think that you have been treated unfairly, look into means for appealing your grade. </p>

<p>With all due respect, what does it sound like I've been trying to do? I asked if it could be discussed, received an ambiguous email that did not acknowledge my request, and was asking here how to proceed.</p>

<p>Participation grades are by definition very subjective.</p>

<p>*The grades in this sort of class are always totally subjective... *</p>

<p>Granted, in most cases, that is true. However, is this particular case not a bit different? I asked why my participation grade was lower than expected, and was told very explicitly in writing (by E-Mail) that the majority of the semester "was great" and the drop resulted principally from two specific incidents, which made it "evident" to the teacher I was uninterested:<br>
a) "choosing not to participate" in essay peer review in a timely manner by deciding not to "use" the given worksheet until told
b) putting my head down in class ONCE for about 5 minutes about two weeks before.</p>

<p>In the case of a), I can say pretty confidently that I did choose to participate and use the worksheet. As I said, I arrived early, began reading and marking the draft even before the rest of the class had arrived (this guy writes long papers; I wanted to have enough time), and wrote responses to the questions from the given worksheet ON the draft. I read everything to the guy in case, all within earshot of the teacher. When I was told the worksheet itself needed to be filled out completely, I recopied my answers on to it. I don't see how this could be construed as a decision not to participate, and if my grade was bumped down because of 'choosing not to,' then I have to admit, I think it was bumped down erroneously. </p>

<p>In the case of b), I will admit, my performance briefly suffered, even if for a reason outside my control. I still think I made the right decision in staying in the classroom (at least 2 kids were snoring, why should I be the one to leave when I'm perfectly capable of staying awake and just needed to rest my shoulders), but maybe I should be marked down and leniency in judging that one instance would constitute an undeserved bump or "bonus point." Or maybe not. Not my call. In any case, I did not ask specifically that the impact of the instance on my grade be reconsidered. I just wanted to make it clear to the teacher that I didn't want to disrespect the guy or the class. I will try to clarify that in my next email.</p>

<p>... it does sound as if you want to prof to bump up your grade on the grounds that you were ill, but that's not really something they're in a position to do.</p>

<p>Please see above. To be blunt, I would like my grade bumped up on the grounds that the reason cited for which it was bumped down appears to be erroneous IMO - I participated in the review fully. Sure, I would appreciate an additional bump on the grounds of "illness" but don't necessarily expect it.</p>

<p>If you do have a serious health condition that you feel the prof should know about (especially if it means you might be missing some classes) then certainly tell them right at the beginning and be prepared to present a letter from you doctor as proper documentation.</p>

<p>*you should let your profs know at the beginning of every semester about your heart condition. Let them know what the condition is, how it manifests itself in you, what a typical episode is like and how you react, how this might affect your classwork, how often these attacks/illnesses occur and if there are any signs that are life threatening and may require them to call 911. *</p>

<p>... ? Hey, I really appreciate your taking the time to write, but I don't know what to say. This basically illustrates why I'm reluctant to discuss. I thought I said pretty specifically that this is not that serious a condition and the episode was a relatively isolated incident. I did not know how or when it would manifest until it did. Yet now this is a "serious health condition" and I should know when to call 911? I was really trying to emphasize that it's not that bad; i haven't had to find out yet and hopefully never will.</p>

<p>I don't really know how I would discuss it without leading to misunderstandings like this. I don't want to be made to excuse myself because a minor and isolated episode that should pass is misconstrued as something more grave. It's happened before and was very inconvenient; my HS did not have a nurse or office, so "excuse yourself" meant go lie outside on the hallway floor.</p>

<p>*It sounds like perhaps you're used to always getting straight A's in high school and always being right at the top of your class. One thing that's often hard for new college students to come to terms with is that everyone's very smart and many people go from being the 'local genius' to 'just like everyone else.' *</p>

<p>I may have been perceived by some people in that way, but I dont see it- I've basically worked at the same level for most of high school as during freshman year. My hs lit teacher was a former college professor from a state school who actually, if anything, held her class to a higher standard than the current teacher (at t10 school no less... just goes to show I guess... rigor is pretty variable from school to school).</p>

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<p>If your medical issue presents a disabiliity, you can register through the disabilities office. They useually provide a letter for the faculty member. However, always talke to the professor at the beginning of the semester, but you need to have substantiation -- keep in mind that ufortunately many people lie.</p>

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<p>idtb, </p>

<p>"I may have been perceived by some people in that way, but I dont see it- I've basically worked at the same level for most of high school as during freshman year. My hs lit teacher was a former college professor from a state school who actually, if anything, held her class to a higher standard than the current teacher (at t10 school no less... just goes to show I guess... rigor is pretty variable from school to school)."</p>

<p>Well, again college isn't high school. Quite often a smaller percentage of students will get the top grade in a class in college relative to HS. </p>

<p>Also, you seem to be forming your arguments around the fact that the only reason you didn't get an A was because of these isolated participation incidents; however, you could have also gotten an A by scoring higher on your papers. I obviously don't know all the ins and outs of this class or prof, but in all likelyhood you didn't get an A because the prof thought others had performed better in this case. </p>

<p>Feel free to argue it out with the prof over boosting your grade, but know that there's probably nothing they can't stand more than students who aruge over getting a few more fractions of a percent on their grade (as opposed to coming into office hours and having a constructive chat about how to increase performance on assignments in the future and earn that higher grade outright).</p>

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<p>I'm trying to help. You asked.</p>

<p>1) Means to appeal the grade requires you filing formal complaint with either the department, the college or the university depending on how your university handles things. You'll be asked to present the facts, why you feel like you've been treated unfairly and so on. The professor will be asked to provide an explanation of their grading decision and a group of professors/deans/students will make a decision.</p>

<p>2) Sorry, but as a 3rd year medical student, I don't consider chest pain and tightness in a college aged individual to be a "minor" symptom. If you'd like, PM me with your diagnosis, and I'll read about it, but given what you've posted, my mind turns to serious conditions first - angina, asthma, pulmonary embolism and a number of other very serious conditions present as chest pain and/or tightness with or without pain in other locations.</p>

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<p>bigredmed is correct, he is not being mean. If you want to appeal your grade, it is a formal process that you will probably have no chance of winning, and your name will probably travel through the department as a grade grubber.</p>

<p>I also agree that heart conditions are not minor.</p>

<p>You got an A- in participation, which is pretty close to an A. Maybe only one person in the class got an actual A for participation, and you weren't it. Happens sometimes. The professor telling you that you have a good chance for an A (as he did with a couple weeks left) does not mean you will get an A.</p>

<p>Arriving early does not get you bonus points.</p>

<p>An A- does not indicate anything lacking or problematic. It means you did a very good job in the course.</p>

<p>In the end, you got an A- for the class. If you want an A, it will require a lot of formal paperwork and likely confrontation (either direct or indirect) with the professor. It's up to you to decide if it's worth it.</p>

<p>I suggest you enjoy the holidays.</p>

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<p>hmmm, sorry to not be clear, but I did not mean to claim I'm consistently at the top of the class. I just mean to say that yes, I'm very accustomed to being "like the rest", producing imperfect work, and working to improve, in part because I had a quite exceptional teacher. I thought it was interesting (and not entirely atypical; I know many who find their undergrad courses less rigorous and less subject to downscaling than their HS courses). I was not trying to make any case as to how it relates to my own grades or sets me up for the top grade or any such thing.</p>

<p>Why do you assume I did not come to office hours? I conferenced on each paper. In the case of the third, the creative writing assignment for which I was given an A-, I had been told that relatively little was written on my paper because it was solid, but was unusually introspective, could use more dialogue to externalize emotion, and had a somewhat abrupt ending. It was emphasized that it was good and these were only recommendations that were not necessary, but in any case, I followed them, expanded the ending by a page and a half to include emotional outbursts, incorporated some dialogue into the rest, and made tweaks. I was told afterwards that while the ending was "wonderful" but that she had hoped I would introduce an additional dramatic event such as a shipwreck or kidnapping as some other students had done. I never would have guessed that this was being recommended in a million years and took the other recommendations literally, so I missed the mark.</p>

<p>We met during every available office hour to discuss the last paper, each of which revealed new kinks in the thesis and led to substantial rewrites. In the end, as the deadline drew close, I ended up hyperventilating and passing out while proofreading (I had a very bad cough for several weeks prior so I wasn't in great shape), so my paper was not polished to the extent of previous papers and fell short. But I clearly attended office hours and sought constructive criticism in both instances.</p>

<p>I do not mean to suggest this effort merits me anything grade-wise; it does not. I would just like to make the point that it seems a bit presumptive to say that because I did not make higher scores I failed to take a proactive role in maintaining my grade and improving my writing. I do not mean to be defensive, but your post seems to imply the worst about me.</p>

<p>One other thing: why do you say the top grade is necessarily limited to small percentage? Granted, reading several essays on one topic is bound to color one's individual perceptions of each such that the overall quality determines what merits an 80, 90, etc. but there does not appear to be additional tweaking of the numerical totals to yield a curve. The syllabus is very explicit in stating the components and their weight and that it is not situational to a curve. Certainly, all teachers are free to change the syllabi as it suits them, but I don't see a lot of evidence for that being the case here.</p>

<p>As to where I stand, people in the class are fairly open in discussing their grades and peer review gives exposure to everyone else's work, so it's really not a mystery where I are others stand.</p>

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<p>idtb,</p>

<p>I think you just need to chill out and relax a bit now over the holidays... you're posts come across as if you're quite stressed out over this whole situation. You came on here and solicited advice so please don't take it personally if you don't agree with everything that comes back.</p>

<p>Re going to office hours:
I wasn't making any assumptions at all, just simply pointing out that profs really don't like grade grubbers who complain about getting their grades bumped up rather than focusing on the academic work. If you're already going to office hours and talking about the work then that's great and keep it up. My point was simply saying to avoid being a grade grubber. </p>

<p>Re top grades limited to a small percentage:
I didn't say this was always the case, simply pointing out that very often only the top stellar performers in the class will get an 'A' whilst others who did 'very well but not stellar' will probably get an A- or B+ (still good grades). Yes, every course is different... I'm simply saying that you can do very well in a course and still not get a full A.</p>

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<p>Bigredmed: I understand and appreciate that you are looking ahead, but that is not what I meant to ask. I am of course aware I may face the decision to contest the grade formally and had previously looked up university policy and procedure: it is to contact the JIR/Prof within 30 days of grading to ask for clarification and arrrange for discussion before considering formal action. That is why my question was in fact how to read the evasiveness of the email and based on this, how to call attention to the request for clarification that was previously ignored. I understand I need to know the policy, but I need to have these questions answered before I decide if it's worth proceeding. I'm sorry if my phrasing of the question was originally unclear.</p>

<p>2) Well, since others asked, I may as well clarify here, I have mitral regurgitation. That's really it. I was born with a structural anomaly of the carotid artery (it was misplaced) that cause degeneration of the valve. I had corrective bypass surgery. Now I have a bad valve. I take an ace inhibitor. I occasionally experience the symptoms associated with prolapse, (palpitations, chest pain, constriction, migraine, blurred vision, sensation of panic), usually once or twice a month, usually at night while lying down but they are not considered signs of additional pathology. The original anomaly was dangerous; I'm told no one else born with it in my year in that area of the US is still alive, but the secondary damage is nowhere near as serious. In any case, I have gotten significantly better in the past 5 years. This past semester I got a bit worse. Sometime in the last week, I got much worse, but this is not relevant to my experience over the semester and is relevant to the coming semester only if I do no get better within the week. I have a cardiology appointment on Thursday so if there are other problems I will know.</p>

<p>Since you seemed so concerned, I did look it up and pain associated with prolapse and regurgitation is not unlike that associated with angina in some cases, so fair enough (you scared me though, jeez). Still, not the same and While obviously I do have a murmur, I feel there is a psychological component in that if I am forced to dwell on the condition and potential symptoms I'm more likely to experience them. That is why I don't think it's worth it to talk about; it's not preventing anything - it's just asking for it IMO.</p>

<p>rocketman:
I will admit, I am frustrated. I attempted to be very specific in soliciting advice- it's in the title- how to call attention to a previously a ignored request for discussion and clarification while also explaining my reasoning for not discussing my condition earlier. I have said that I know all my grades for the class, the syllabus is clear on how they are weighted, and the email is clear on the reasons for which a participation grade was lowered. I emphasized that I do NOT, to my knowledge, have a major condition and while this may change (the episode I'm currently having is somewhat unprecedented, so I don't know), I would not normally expect it to impact my performance nor would I be comfortable discussing it. I stated that I had the condition only because I did not want speculation as to why as 18-year-old would have chest pain. Yet the majority of responses have been a combination of unsubstantiated assertions that the syllabus is not followed, recommendations on how to discuss a serious medical condition, or speculation at to the seriousness of the condition, which is extremely unpleasant and to be honest a little frightening. I know what I have (or thought I did); it is not nice to be told I have an embolism by someone is not my doctor and whose speculation was not solicited, no matter how well meant. How could I not be stressed out? This is why I prefer not to discuss health in the first place. </p>

<p>Soccerguy: it was specified in the email that the A- was given due to perception of problematic behavior in the last two to three weeks. I did not mean to imply that arriving early merited bonus points, only that if the accusation is failure to participate, arriving early and working from them on would seem to contradict that accusation.</p>

<p>The heart condition is, for the mean time, minor. The only person who can say otherwise is my cardiologist.</p>

<p>Holiday will begin if at all after the cardiology appointment, depending on whether I need a stress test or not, so no more of this enjoy the holidays nonsense. that's just mean. :P</p>

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<p>Forget grades.
Sometimes the teachers are plain biased, and you can bust your ass off, yet you'll never get what you want.
And no, you'll not get anywhere by appealing to the dean, because the teachers always tend to have strong friendships with them. In any case, deans are there just to penalize you, to expel you from the university for one reason or another, and will hardly ever take your side.</p>

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<p>idtb,</p>

<p>Best of luck with it all... I hope it turns out well with your appointment.</p>

<p>Look at next semester as a fresh start and that should help quite a lot. If you did take all this forward via a formal process it's likely to drag on well into next semester. (and as others have said, it's very unlikely to go your way)... that wouldn't be good either for your mental or physical health.</p>

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<p>idtb,</p>

<p>My suggestion would be to drop it.
As you've been told, the chances of pulling your grade from an A- to an A are completely outweighed by the loss of reputation you would incur with the department. If this is a class in your major then you should know that arguing over grades at the end of a semester or after any assignment or exam (regardless of how good your reasons are) is one of the worst things you can do in terms of your relationship with a professor (most professors would actually rather hear about your personal problems after class than deal with that -- and most professors would rather not be your personal psychologist!)</p>

<p>Additionally, as far as the issue with falling asleep for "only a few minutes" goes, of course a professor is going to dock you on participation for that. It's outright disrespectful! If you were feeling ill, that's understandable, but you needed to let your prof know right away. If you have a congenital or chronic illness, you should go through the disabilities or learning enrichment (or whatever) center and make your profs aware of the problem but even if you didn't know it would be a problem until later, you could have at least let the prof know after class (especially in a class that's small enough for the professor to actually take note of people's participation).
Falling asleep in class is actually disliked more than ANYTHING except cheating! While you might perceive sleeping in class as being better than just leaving early, most professors surveyed in a study actually rated leaving early as a 2.2 on a 7-pt Likert (Neutral=4, 1.0=worst/extremely dislike, 7.0=best/extremely likeable) scale vs. sleeping in class was given a 1.6 (plagiarizing and cheating on an exam were rated 1.1 and 1.0 respectively)!</p>

<p>(Survey results are from Keith-Spiegel, P., & Wiederman, M. (2000). The Complete Guide to Graduate School Admission. Hillsdale: L. Erlbaum Associates. If any of you would like to see the full list, I'll post it, but basically it gives lists of such things as behaviors and attributes professors like and dislike in students and how those relate to the letters of recommendation a professor is willing to write for a student.)</p>

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<p>apumic, i'd love to see the full survey results, if you'd like to PM me. Thanks!</p>