<p>Duke is my number one school, and I can't dream of going anywhere else other than Duke, and the closest school I got into rankings wise is Wake Forest, and they didn't even give me any money anyway. However, they financial aid board concluded that I was eligible to no financial aid due to my parents high income. However, my twin brother is also going to college next year, and my younger sister the year after that, and my parents are in large debt already due to my mom(main breadwinner) being unemployed for 2 years. Is there a process through which to appeal this? And if that fails, what should I do? Should I raise donations from wealthy alumni? I am literally at wit's end, to have finally achieved my dream of getting into this school, only to find myself unable to afford it. I'm ****ed here, and I could use any help or advice you could give me. Thanks</p>
<p>No offense but I find this to be rather hard to wrap my mind around this without more clarification. </p>
<p>If your mom is the breadwinner and she’s been unemployed for 2 years, how is it that your parents have high income? Do they somehow have sky high income from capital gains or a ton of money saved up? </p>
<p>If your parents’ income is truly very low (as would normally be the case if the breadwinner is unemployed) I find it hard to believe that Duke would make you pay full price given that you’ll have a sibling in college concurrently. </p>
<p>So taking what you said about your situation at face value, did your parents fill out the FAFSA and CSS Profile correctly? </p>
<p>Of course an appeals process exists but it would really only be of value if you can show that your situation has changed drastically since the time you filled out your FA paperwork or that you made an error on the paperwork which significantly impacted your FA calculations. </p>
<p>I don’t know anything about raising money through wealthy alumni and I really can’t imagine how you would go about doing that, but there are some scholarships available. Unfortunately for most of them you should already have applied or gotten the news. Another route is to go ROTC. You’d need to make a service commitment for after you graduate (deferable I think if you go postgraduate) but you get full tuition scholarship, textbook fees, and a monthly stipend which may be able to cover your room/board. I have a few friends who paid their way through Duke that way and a few right now in med school who’s doing the same.</p>
<p>It doesn’t get much better than Duke financial aid. If they say, no go, and I am assuming you did feel out the forms with your brother down as a student for next year too, then it’s not likely you are going to get aid anywhere else. Maybe with three in college, that will put in the running, but then that means another tuition to be paid. So, now, I don’t see how or where you are going to get the kind of money other than applying for outside awards the best you can and your parents looking at loans.</p>
<p>You are not middle class. Not if you did not qualify for aid from Duke with two in college. Look at what middle class income is in this country. You are way, way over. Like edging towards the Obama defined wealthy, certainly in the top 5% of income in the this country.</p>
<p>But if your family has lived up to its income in terms of buying a home and a lifestyle so that they are peers with those who make this kind of money, it is tough going to come up with the $60K+ that a private university costs. We have friends who are decidedly high income, live on the sound, have a great house and all the amenties and they are sucking it down big time with college costs with 3 in college, twins and a singleton all at colleges in the price range. They are taking out loans, and so are the kids, and the kids are working part time too, so that they can bring down some of the net price. Oh, and they are commuting this year, a pain, but it saves quite a bit of money. </p>
<p>In such cases, loans to spread out the cost over more years makes sense for your parents to take, since you will all be out of school all at once just as you are in college together and they can regroup and pay over time which is what we are doing with multiple kids with their ages spaced out so that we don’t have more than 2 in college at a time but for a year here and there.</p>
<p>I agree. Something fishy here.</p>
<p>If Duke, knowing that you will have two kids in college, still gave you a EFC that exceeded $60k/yr, which means no aid, that means that your total EFC was $120k/yr. If that is the case, I’m sorry, but I would not consider you middle class. At all. I wouldn’t consider you upper middle class.</p>
<p>I understand that this can be frustrating, especially because you got in to your dream school. However, if your parents are truly making that much money, you need to talk to them about your options. However, why should other alumni, making probably far less than your family, support your education? Good luck.</p>
<p>My parents take home 200k total each year, before taxes. So after taxes, they have 136k of income. Also, to clarify, my mom had been unemployed for the 2 years preceding this past one(2012) So, as we have 136k, I don’t see how they can expect us to contribute 120k+ each year! I work as a pool lifeguard in the summer: I sure as hell can’t make up the difference. Thanks, and open to more input.</p>
<p>Even on 136K of income, from what I have seen of packages that other people have posted, their EFC is much lower than sticker price. Are you sure your parents filled out the forms correctly to reflect that you’ll have sibling in college? Have you tried contacting the FA office or your designated FA counselor directly? I know from personal experience that they are more than willing to work with you if you have circumstances that fall beyond the scope of ordinary considerations.</p>
<p>I hate to break this to you, but you are not middle class. You can’t be if Duke (one of the most generous with financial aid) is requiring 60k EFC with a sibling in college. You either put something in incorrectly or your parents have not divulged their full financial information to you.</p>
<p>Here is what I don’t get, you say your parents take home 200k each year before taxes and you got nothing WITH a sibling in college. My parents take home ~100-120k a year and I have a sibling in college and I’m got 40k/year PLUS federal loans from Duke. Duke is extremely generous with their aid and clearly there is some good reason for you not getting aid.</p>
<p>The $136K after-tax income number is irrelevant. All schools, Duke included, use the parents’ Adjusted Gross Income (AGI) from their tax returns in evaluating need. Financial aid is primarily income driven and a good rule of thumb is that your EFC will be about 25-35% of AGI. So, with only one student in the family in college, it’s not surprising that your EFC would be in the $60K range with an AGI of $200K. With two students in college CSS Profile schools will expect each to pay 60% of the amount determined with one in college. So, if you had an EFC of $60K with one in college, you could expect your EFC to drop to $40K when your younger sibling enrolls.</p>
<p>But does the FAFSA take into account the size of the household? If you have more dependents to support, your EFC should logically go down. </p>
<p>Plus, according to Duke’s net price calculator website, even those with total income above 160K got an average of just shy of 20K in their FA package. Given that the OP’s family’s breadwinner was unemployed for 2 years I think it’s safe to assume they probably don’t have a ton of savings. I find it hard to believe that under the circumstances (twin in college, household of 5), the OP didn’t get something.</p>
<p>SBR - yes something is amiss here. With two in college, even with AGI of $200K, there should be a reasonable amount of aid offered. Without knowing all of the financial details (are parents small business owners, were there retirement contributions, home equity, etc), its hard to evaluate the full picture. Bottom line is that the OP should call Duke’s FA office and have them walk him and his parents through the details of how his need was evaluated.</p>
<p>@dukedad-- I’m not saying you’re wrong, but I believe Duke uses a number more than AGI. My family’s AGI is between 60-65k, and the loan amount I was offered is given to families making 70-85k. This could either be a result of them adding back in 401k contributions or schedule C deductions, but either way, it’s entirely possible that OP’s income for Duke is >200k.</p>
<p>purpleacorn: Duke automatically maxes out loans for everyone applying for FA regardless of income. It’s about 4-5K a year and it’s the first thing to be added to the package before any work-study or grant money.</p>
<p>Right. My AGI alone would have put me at 3k/yr in loans according to their website, and what I got was 4k/yr in loans. So the Duke-calculated family income for us is higher (again, probably through deducation and 401k contribution addback).</p>
<p>Purpleacorn: I think you misunderstood. Duke doesn’t peg loan amount to AGI period no matter what the net price calculator tells you (the net price calculator is run by CollegeBoard using its own formulas not Duke’s). If your need is equal to or greater than the max of the Perkins/Stafford loan limit, you will get that max amount. It doesn’t matter what your AGI is, loans are never proportional to AGI. The price calculator may be wrong but the official policy is to load the FA with as much loans as they are legally permitted to give you.</p>
<p>The process goes:</p>
<p>1) Use your FAFSA/CSS info (including AGI) to calculate your EFC.
2) Subtract EFC from total cost = your total need
3) Max out your loans
4) Max out your work-study
5) Fill in the rest of your need with grant money</p>
<p>So the only way you won’t get the max amount of loans is if your total need is less than the max loan amount.</p>
<p>SBR- From the Duke website: </p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Duke has a new financial aid intiative that is capping initial student loans. The max they are able to federally give (and some schools have given me) is a 5.5k/Stafford and additioanl loans in Perkins. They choose to limit the loan to an amount based on income. What I am saying is that I was given the loan amount of a higher income level than our family’s reported AGI, which leads me to believe that Duke determines family income by adding things back into our AGI.</p>
<p>[Duke</a> Financial Aid: Building Your Award](<a href=“http://dukefinancialaid.duke.edu/undergraduate/prospectives/howitworks/awarding.html]Duke”>http://dukefinancialaid.duke.edu/undergraduate/prospectives/howitworks/awarding.html)</p>
<p>To determine grant amounts for the first year, Duke:</p>
<p>COA-EFC (as determined by Duke)- $2.1k student summer contribution- $2.2k in workstudy- $0-5k in loans (depending on family income)= Grant Amount</p>
<p>Duke doesn’t max out work-study either to the federal limit, and caps it at $2.2k; federally, I have been awarded (and am earning) a $4k/yr work-study award.</p>
<p>purpleacorn - I didn’t mean to imply that EFC is solely determined by AGI - just that it’s the main driver in determining need and for those looking for a general rule-of-thumb, with "normal"assets, it typically comes out at 25-35% of AGI. In the financial formulas the schools calculate what is called and “Adjusted Available Income” which takes into account many other things, like in-year retirement contributions, business losses, etc. So, when you look at Duke’s wording - “family income”, doesn’t necessarily mean AGI and yours was probably bumped up due to some of these other factors. SBR is right that Duke, like most meets-full-need schools, will build your aid package first with loans and work-study, and then fill in the remaining need with grant aid. Also, unlike the Stafford loan limits, there is not a strict “federal limit” on how much work study they will award a student. Each school is given a pot of money for federal work study and they allocate it as they deem appropriate. For most schools it’s between $1500-$3000 per student per year for those students getting need-based aid.</p>
<p>First, the Duke net price calculator is based on assumptions specific to Duke. If not the federal government wouldn’t have mandated a net price calculator by school. Second, Duke uses total income not AGI. The difference being a number of those adjustments to income items get added back. For my family that includes contributions to a 401k and it has a big impact. Third, Duke does tie loans in your financial aid package to total income from $0 for incomes under $40,000 to a maximum of $5,000 for incomes over $85,000. They do not put loans above this amount in your financial aid package. If you qualify you can indeed get Perkins, Stafford, or outside loans up to your calculated need. The statement that the only way you won’t get the max amount of loans is if your total need is less than the max loan amount is correct. The statement that the official policy is to load the FA with as much loans as they are legally permitted to give you is false.</p>
<p>Tennisforall: I never said the price calculator wasn’t specific to Duke. I said that the price calculator is not the exact formula used by Duke to calculate the FA packages. It is likely based on a set of generalized information based on the calculation method reported to the CollegeBoard by Duke. In any case, there’s not much info on how it works other than it’s “customized” by the colleges themselves. </p>
<p>Also are you sure that Duke added back 401(k) contributions? The FA website seems pretty clear that retirement assets are not counted in EFC calculations. However other assets such as savings, investments, and real estate assets are counted. This may account for some of the discrepancies. </p>
<p>As for maxing out loans…oops my bad. I must have gotten the wrong impression from something at some point in time. My mistake and my apologies.</p>
<p>Anyway, regardless of the information given on CC Purpleacorn, none of us know every detail of your financial aid situation. However, if you do want to find out exactly what’s going on, I know for a fact that you can contact your FA counselor and they can give you an exact rundown of how your award was calculated. Or if you are on campus, you can schedule an appointment and talk with them face to face. That’s the best way to get any ambiguities and questions sorted out.</p>