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Your premise suggests that the whole foundation and focus of their enterprise is to encourage abuse by their clients, and this is simply not the case. Optimization of results, yes. Abuse, sorry I can't agree.
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<p>Again, I do ** not ** see how you can jump to such conclusions. </p>
<p>Geesh, have we hit a time on these boards where every caveat, every attempt to look at both sides of a situation only looks at the negative?</p>
<p>Yes, there are a lot of nice IBers. I know some. I even have some that are friends. My D dated a (prospective) one once...</p>
<p>...and, what motivated IBers is making money, for clients and personally. </p>
<p>Moneydad, I suppose you are now going to tell me that IBers are not in it for the money? They just want to help humanity?</p>
<p>It's Monydad
NOT Moneydad.
Resemblance is an unfortunate coincidence, no intended connection whatsoever.</p>
<p>In my case I hated my initial career path, became interested in the financial markets, therefore decided to get an MBA in finance in order to change careers. Chose my employer because, well, they were the ones doing financial markets, which is what I was interested in.</p>
<p>So yes, it's true I did not enter investment banking for the money. I entered it due to subject matter interest. I got one job offer, it was good and I took it.</p>
<p>I was happy to have had the opportunity to help humanity, which I think my efforts actually did in some small measure.</p>
<p>I do not recall discussing career motivations with anyone while I was in the banking realm, so I can't make any blanket attributions.</p>
<p>They are motivated to make money for their clients and their firms at least in part because their livelihood depends on it. That's how they are judged internally, in part. They are salesmen, and in every industry salespeople have their quota to meet, and that quota has dollars associated with it. </p>
<p>And pretty much most people like to make money for themselves. Whether they like it more than most people, I have no data on that. They certainly like it though.</p>
<p>And as for "Looking at both sides"- I saw an overwhelming slant towards a, largely phantom IMO, negative side and that's what I was reacting to. Maybe I overlooked a large number of posts that pointed out the positive contributions investment bankers make to society, and what a great career path this can be for the right person. As opposed to the one I now recall that wasn't by me.</p>
<p>Newmassdad, in the same post where you accuse another of jumping to conclusions, you purport that ibankers are driven (solely is implied) by money. Indeed the gist of your entire contribution to this thread has been that investment bankers are somehow fundamentally corrupt. Forget jumping to conclusions -- how about we avoid making sweeping generalizations?</p>
<p>jmmom mentioned consulting a while back, which is a thought I had when the poster mentioned her son is a potential English major. I saw major consulting firms recruiting English PhD students at Stanford not so long ago -- communication being the key skill.</p>
<p>I'm following this whole discussion with both ignorance and fascination, as my quantitative son seems to be stumbling into finance because it is the rage on campus at the moment. I think a lot of these students don't have a clue what it's about -- other than money -- but hedge funds and I-banking seem to them like the dot.coms a decade or so back. Keep talking. I want to hear more.</p>
<p>If that's the best response you can do, it is sad.</p>
<p>Of ALL professions around, I am amazed that someone would take issue with IBers being motivated by money. To make you happy, yes, I will agree that I generalized. But "sweeping"? No way. I guess you don't know many IBers? I guess you've never sat in a bar with them talking about their jobs? If you do have DIRECT knowledge, let's hear a bit. Don't take the cheap way out - where you disagree and show it by bashing the messenger.</p>
<p>Let's just say y'all have demonstrated herein your intimate direct knowledge, and I've detailed some of mine. and let the readers decide for themselves who actually does or does not have actual direct relevant, supportable in-depth knowledge from which to base their statements. Like somebody saw that movie "Wall Street", or went to a bar, or whatever other expert credentials they'd like to add. OK.</p>
<p>Is anyone here seriously debating whether or not IBs are in the career for the big dough? </p>
<p>I mean really. It isn't exactly like a job working in a clinic in Harlem or doing mission work in Africa or even working as an shrink on the Upper East Side, all of which are jobs that help others.</p>
<p>IBers make big money, but help no one except their own pocketbooks, and those of their clients. I supposed they are "helping" LOL!, but not in any humanitarian sense of the word.</p>
<p>Honestly, monydad. Illegitimi non carborundum. And I surely do pity the poor OP, who came here for information on a career and a career path. She got a little of that and a lot of diatribe. Is it our job to steer a kid away from an area of interest? Based on some sense of our own personal superiority? I think not.</p>
<p>Re #47:I no longer have the patience to discuss this matter. Suffice it to say that I do not agree at all.</p>
<p>Next time your city wants to float a bond issue to build a bridge,or a public hospital, I think you should get them the money yourself. It should be nothing to you, since this endeavor is so valueless.</p>
<p>Good day, I'm out.</p>
<p>jmmom my post #46 was in response to post #45.
I think you should direct your comments there. But that's up to you.</p>
<p>monydad, my comment was in sympathy with you, not directed at you. don't let the bastards grind you down (illegitimi non carborundum).</p>
<p>I truly don't get why these folks think they are the arbiters of ethics, the infallible observers of what motivates individuals to pursue different careers, and the ultimate judges of whether an individual's motivation (if it happens to be, say, money, or whatever it is) is honorable or not.</p>
<p>It makes me sad that parents can no longer come here for information.</p>
<p>The OP was looking for information about an unfamiliar career path, and how the choice of college, or classes, or whatever might help or impede exploring that career. Frankly, it's obnoxious that people feel the need to hand over gratuitous and judgemental observations under the guise of helping.</p>
<p>I think there are a lot of venal people in the world. I have met several medical professionals who admit they're in it for the dough.... and that the patients are just a minor distraction on the way to the Jaguar dealership, but I don't condemn all physicians. </p>
<p>I work in HR for a large corporation and have a lot of experience recruiting BA's as well as more senior folks, so whenever I can be helpful about how college and courses relate to different careers I try to do so. Does anyone care that I think lots of things people do with their day is of little social value? Probably not. I think that football is useless, but the billions of dollars in revenue generated by the NFL, college leagues, etc. proves that what I think isn't all that accurate.</p>
<p>I have gotten help here about my kids paths... which diverge significantly from my own experience.... so I try and return the favor. But it's getting harder. And to all of you who are about to chime in that I'm a corporate shill who has sold-out... yes, that's right. I support a family, an extended family with significant medical issues, and contribute time and cash to several causes that I care deeply about. I have no patience for small children so I ruled out teaching kindergarden in a failing school system years ago; I flunked bio so med school was out; I am uncoordinated and have a mild learning disability so forget working for habitat for humanity (nobody wants me turning on a power drill). Only thing left for slugs like me is to get a good, secure job and try and help humanity in other ways.</p>
<p>Many graduating HS want this and that. Being a IBer seems to be glamorous job and being able to make a lot of money as a reward. As in any J. O. B. there are the ups and downs with the ups being incredibly high and the lows, crushingly swift. </p>
<p>My bro told me a while ago that there are no secrets on how money is made, Only secret people. Or was it secrets that people keep? </p>
<p>Anyhow, I find the topic fascinating and I wish that I could explore bro's world more. But I can't and he can't.</p>
<p>This got a bit ugly didn't it? I am the original poster and as Blossom and others tried to point out, I just wanted information on a career that I know nothing about. Several of the posts were indeed helpful. Some of the other posts I didn't really understand (balance sheets, in house HUH?). Still it has been interesting to see the various posts, even though they are not on point. I'm sorry that Monydad bowed out, I found his posts interesting. As adults, trying to help each other I think we should try to respect our differences in opinion.
I started out saying that my son was interested in the field because he wanted to make money. I don't see anything wrong with wanting to make money, and I don't think that anyone should have to try to justify it. If you can make money while still respecting the rights of others, then good for you. I came from an impovished background, and although we are middle class now, we can not (nor do we want to ) provide our son with a lot of the luxuries that his classmates take for granted. He has worked for minimum wage since he turned 14, so I can see why he wants to make some real money. He happens to be one of the most honest, trustworthy persons I know. I don't worry about temptation in the financial field with him. I know who he is, and more importantly,HE knows who he is. It is ok with me if is career is about money as long as his life is about people.</p>
<p>I do not know if any one has commented about thiis but what hs student dreams of being a I-banker or even knows what an I-banker even does? A very unusual collection of families living in this virtual gated community!</p>
<p>I was traveling and just came upon this post. I have worked closely with investment bankers for 20 years (am director of fixed income research at a regional broker-dealer and put in my ten years on Wall St. as well). Obviously, I am an advocate of the industry. The investments bankers I have worked with get a lot of personal satisfaction from their jobs and would strongly disagree that they aren't providing an important service. But, I will try to stick to the point of this thread.</p>
<p>Young analysts are worked long hours similar to what doctors go through as interns, lawyers at top firms, or Washington DC power jobs. If that vetting process is survived, a seasoned investment banker, in my view, requires a personality that is good at creative problem solving (usually using math). They must also have superior people skills (be able to deliver bad news; be able to handle personal attacks and solve disputes). They must enjoy getting on the road (i.e. travel a lot) and selling (talk to strangers). Our typical investment banker travels three to four days per week. Hours are long in part due to client dinners and various entertainment type outings (sporting events, etc.). If you like that stuff, it won't feel like work. Attention to detail (willing to review something five times to get the numbers right), public speaking (board meetings to large conferences to investor calls), and ability to tolerate lots of meetings/document reviews are other aspects to the job.</p>
<p>Recruitment is primarily through summer internships, word of mouth, and college campus visits. (I have talked about my experience with interns in other threads. In my experience, kids think this should be a class rather than a job and totally waste the opportunity to impress.) In addition to math skill, we look for work ethic and integrity. Believe it or not, honesty is a critically important skill. Any member of a project team who over promises and underdelivers does not last. Most successful investment banking practices are built on reputation and relationships. </p>
<p>Although I had opportunities to become an investment banker, I have stayed in research because I am more skilled at criticizing and writing (the primary function of a bond analyst) than in problem solving and schmoozing (the primary job of the investment banker). Bond analysts get paid well too (and are equally maligned in some circles); it is a matter of finding the right fit for your unique skill set.</p>
<p>Some of my kid's friends are in that field. If you aren't coming from Wharton, or something similar, it's all about getting an internship after your junior year in college. IBs are more willing to "gamble" on someone with a liberal arts background without any finance or accounting for a summer internship. If you do well, you can get a full time offer. The key is to do something that shows you may have an aptitude for the work--it's not necessary to major in the finance. Four or five econ or high level math courses with As are usually enough for candidates from LACs. (Other factors are also important; I'm just talking about course work.)</p>
<p>As others have said, most work 2-3 years and then go back and get a MBA (unless they went to Wharton or somewhere similar for undergrad).</p>
<p>As for consulting, it is REALLY hard to get a job with a consulting firm straight out of college. Again, internships are key. However, from what I've seen, it is a LOT harder to get a summer internship with a top consulting firm than to get one with an IB.</p>