<p>My son has suddenly decided that he might want to become an investment banker. The problem is that he wanted to be a lawyer when he applied o college, and will now be attending a small LAC in the fall. What type of classes should he try to take? How does someone become an investment banker?</p>
<p>One of my D's friends at a Top 20 LAC got a foot in the door with an IB internship at a major NYC firm last year...she's an Econ major who can also write pretty well. </p>
<p>Things One Hears about IB: they tend to recruit very selectively in terms of which colleges they recruit at. It's a high-paying but soul-deadening life-consuming work week; the phrase "golden handcuffs" comes to mind.</p>
<p>"How does someone become an investment banker?"</p>
<p>Most important qualification is having chosen your parents correctly. I-banks recruit very heavily at schools where large numbers of students have parents who have some kind of high-powered banking and/or legal backgrounds, and hobnob in the proper circles. It occasionally happens that someone without such background gets a foot in the door, at the lower rungs. Most end up having to go back for MBAs anyway, and the top MBA programs (unless you carry the right genes) are not likely to accept a student without several years of job experience, so undergrad school (at least as regards the MBA) isn't going to matter much. </p>
<p>At the lower rungs, there is a lot of dialing for dollars.</p>
<p>Mini, you could not be more wrong. Although the top banks recruit heavily at the schools you frequently disparage as having a high "preppy index", getting a job there requires four things-
1)top grades with evidence of significant quantitative ability
2)leadership skills as evidenced by involvement as a campus activist, head of a large campus organization, etc.
3) Top notch communication skills, both verbal and written
4) Proof of drive, ability to work long hours, significant tenacity, etc.</p>
<p>While you might believe that being the child of high powered parents gives you a foot in the door, if there isn't evidence of the above, that kid won't get hired and all the nepotism in the world won't change that. Everyone gets hired at the lower rungs-- so why you characterize that as exceptional, or some welfare program for kids who didn't grow up privileged, proves that you don't understand how the hiring decision are made at I-banks. You've got a BA from Swarthmore you're starting as an Analyst, doesn't matter who you know. You've got an MBA from Chicago, you're starting as an Associate-- ditto. If you don't have strong mathematical skills you're not getting hired period, preppy index not-withstanding. Why the crack about the gene pool? There are kids who get hired every year for Analyst jobs who are first generation American, grew up disadvantaged -- believe me, nothing moves the dial more than a smart kid who talks about spending every day after school behind the counter of a fast-food restaurant, or working nights at odd jobs to help the family. It's got nothing to do with the gene pool, and a kid who wants to make a lot of money and leave the office every day at 6 pm isn't going to make the cut.</p>
<p>"While you might believe that being the child of high powered parents gives you a foot in the door, if there isn't evidence of the above, that kid won't get hired and all the nepotism in the world won't change that."</p>
<p>Why would you think I disagree?</p>
<p>"Although the top banks recruit heavily at the schools you frequently disparage as having a high "preppy index","</p>
<p>Why did you write "although" as opposed to "because"? ;)</p>
<p>Your argument is that the best way to become an Investment Banker is to choose the right parents which is false. The best way to become an I-banker is to work your tail off, develop a high mathematical aptitude, demonstrate leadership ability, and speak and write standard business English flawlessly. This advice holds true whether your parents are social workers, ministers, dental hygienists, or bus drivers.</p>
<p>It also helps to have absolutely no moral compass or conscience.</p>
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<p>We really don't know anything about Investment Bankers. We are of modest means living in an affluent area. My son heard that investment bankers have the potential to make very good salaries and so he wants to find out more about it. He is strong in Math but his love is English. </p>
<p>We have no business contacts that could help him get started. His LAC does not offer a business major. So are we talking a BA in a related field, then Business school? The post regarding a lack of moral compass concerns me. What did you mean?</p>
<p>Blossom...</p>
<p>as someone who works in the industry....</p>
<p>you are correct...it takes hard work and dedication.</p>
<p>having the right 'connections' may help some get a foot in the door, but that alone won't take them any further. and i've seen plenty of kids who weren't connected get started and do well...all on their own initiative.</p>
<p>And as for you Barrons, that was uncalled for, unnecessary and, more to the point, just plain stupid. Yes, I'm offended. Sure we've all seen bad apples in this and every other walk of life you can mention. The vast majority of people working in financial services take their fiduciary responsibilities very seriously. Just as most people everywhere are honest and hard working.</p>
<p>And you, NYCDAD, overreact. Did Barrons by chance hit a nerve?</p>
<p>These boards have become soooo PC this year that someone can't even make a tongue in cheek comment without someone going bezerk and name calling. It is sad.</p>
<p>With the Enron trial going on, with the discussion of outragous top exec salaries, stock option back dating, disallowed tax shelters, outsourcing and job loss, all of which have Wall Street lurking in the background, "advising" and developing new products, there are a LOT of folks that don't hold your industry high on the integrity scale.</p>
<p>So back off. I don't think name calling (remarks like "stupid") are appropriate.</p>
<p>Mabye you're giving us an example of how I B's work? Disagree? Start name calling?</p>
<p>This site used to be a resource for parents who wanted information from other parents. Sadly for you, Chammom, that's no longer the case. You've got the idealogues beating their dead horses so aggressively you can't even get any real data.</p>
<p>Chammom, your son's lack of contacts won't hurt him. He should go to the recruiting portion of the main websites of such companies as Morgan Stanley, UBS, etc.-- they have detailed information about how one gets hired for various training programs right out of school. They've also got "day in the life" sections where you can learn more about different career paths and the various opportunities for advancement. If he doesn't find these stories interesting, I-banking is probably not for him. It will be tough to feign an interest in finance during the rigorous interview process if it wasn't there to begin with.</p>
<p>If he does find them interesting, there are sites such as Vault which have "water-coolers" where people who work in these jobs and kids who want these jobs can connect (albeit virtually). They can give him a lot of tips (plus some misinformation as well) about the interview process, what the companies look for, etc. However, in my experience, the best source of information is the companies themselves.</p>
<p>Most of the large banks hire analysts straight from undergrad, so an MBA isn't necessary up-front (although it will be down the road in most cases). The lack of a business degree isn't a problem-- any quantitative degree is usually highly valued (econ, applied math, engineering, physics). If your son ends up with a degree in the humanities or social sciences that can work as well, although the need to demonstrate strong quantitative skills will be even more important. It is assumed that an Applied Math major has the basic tools, but not every English major will.</p>
<p>Hope this answers some of your questions.</p>
<p>To add to blossom,</p>
<p>Believe it or not, the college's career resources center CAN be useful. It will be useful if I banks recruit at the institution, and that should be the first question your son asks. He needs to know what firms recruit, and who they recruit. </p>
<p>If few recruit at his college, then he has a bit more work cut out for himself. He then needs to find out how alums from his college made it into the profession. I'd then pay a visit to the alumni office, and see if they can give him the name of alum I bankers. </p>
<p>Like so many things, college grads need to network, network.</p>
<p>ho hum...</p>
<p>1) mostly they recruit at schools where they expect to find a high number and high concentration of highly qualified, and interested, candidates. Because they don't have a lot of time to waste. Also where they have some relationships; like where important partners attended, etc.These pretty much turn out to be a subset of the schools considered by most people to be among the most selective schools, with the brightest student bodies, in the country. With the exception that certain such schools don't have a lot of kids who are interested; they may not go there then. Also they might not go to some small schools that would otherwise qualify, because there wouldn't be enough good applicants there. And sometimes they visit places for relationship purposes, but rarely actually hire from there.</p>
<p>2) It is absolutely true that connected kids get jobs; I've seen it myself. However, i) the connection has to be truly exceptional; and ii) the vast preponderance of kids don't get in this way, they get in on pure individual merit. Running the gauntlet of numerous screening interviews. It is a really tough process.</p>
<p>3) There is nothing inherently evil about helping corporations access the capital markets. It can be a highly challenging job for someone with the right skill set. There are good and bad people in every profession.</p>
<p>4) blossom has it right.</p>
<p>take lots of finance classes</p>
<p>lots of math and quant stuff too - then get into the best MBA program possible, with internship experience is helpful also.</p>
<p>I interned at a major ibank this summer. Undergrad school matters lots. Being an analyst following undergrad gives you a huge leg up when going for associate jobs after B school. Many banks just take back the same people. Analysts in general come from a select few schools, not always where you might expect. I saw much more Dartmouth than Princeton, lots of Wiliams and not many from Swat. The commonality seems to be personality type--lots of jocks, and leadership, lots of captains. Connections certainly seem to help in getting the jobs, but you won't keep them if you don't work hard and smart. I saw the son a a very influential person get fired this summer. I don't think NYCdad was out 0f line. There is so much crap said about ibankers. Somehow amazing work ethics aren't admired when the compensation is high. It is true though that the job is consuming, I enjoyed my summer and may spend a few years in that business, but since I want a family I know I won't do it long term.</p>
<p>Chammon:</p>
<p>There are many, many ways for a person to earn a decent amount of money than by being an IB. I suggest that your son search them out. Perhaps you should watch the movie "Wall Street," to get an idea of what your son is in for.</p>
<p>Barons contribution is dead-on.</p>
<p>I'd rather that the IBers play with their own money than with Other Peoples Money. There are a lot of Banks and Brokerages that played the IB game not too many years ago and cost Everyone a lot of $.</p>
<p>Can someone explain what is Investment banking? I know, I have led a sheltered life!
How is IB different from ordinary banking? Is it just money-lending (backed up by research into the risks and rewards?) Is that why there are comments that it is "soul-deadening"?</p>
<p>I looked at the recruitment site of Morgan Stanley. The only on-site interviews at college campuses, listed on that site, were for Williams College. So.. looks like, Williams is the "right school to go to". A bit of old-boy network?
I do not mean to cause any offense and apologize in advance if I did.</p>
<ul>
<li>investment banking typically involves the securities markets- stocks, bonds</li>
<li>"ordinary" banking is generally commercial banking- ie working capital, banks making loans
-There have been periodic exceptions, but the investment banking groups of securities firms usually try not to invest their own money. Or other people's money. They are middlemen, matching buyers and sellers. The trading arms do engage in proprietary trading for their own accounts. I really don't know what post #18 is referring to.</li>
<li>In fact, there are very few ways to make that kind of money that are legal and don't involve either some sort of ball, a stethoscope, or actual real ingenuity and innovation.
-"Wall Street', while an entertaining movie, is not a documentary.</li>
</ul>