Questions about Service Academies

Colleges and Universities A-Z Service Academy Parents
1

<p>I'm new to the idea of attending a service academy, but I pretty much need to go to college for free, and that eliminates the idea of prestige in most cases, and I do value the idea of being able to say I want to Prestigious College X.</p>

<p>This is not the only reason I'm considering the service academies, it is one of many. I have a lot of questions regarding the academies and I was hoping to get some ideas and figure out which ones to consider more highly.</p>

<p>Some background information:</p>

<p>I'm a decent student, started high school off in a rather lazy fashion but I'm picking it up, and those pure IQ points got me through with more As than Bs for sure, and never a C or lower in my life.</p>

<p>I'm athletic to some degree, just haven't really found a sport I love. When I played sports simply for fun in my earlier life, I was always the quarterback, pitcher, lead position of whatever sport. I jsut didn't really get into anything that much, so I'm naturally athletic but not really captivated by sports.</p>

<p>I come from a family that is not so well off, so I need a place to go to college for free, and still gain respect, and I don't mind serving my country for at least a few years afterwards. So this is why I'm considering the service academies.</p>

<p>I figure I should list some of my specific talents, both academic and not, because I would like to known which service academies would serve me best. I'm artistically skilled, but I also have a great aptitude for mathematics, I'm the only one in my sad school district that has ever been skipped a grade in math, school policies are harshly against such actions but they had to do it for me. I also have basic computer science skills that I'm interested in improving. I'm also very interested in the stock market, and I have a good eye for the right stocks, definite aptitude in business, at least for a high school student.</p>

<p>My final ambition is to go to medical school. I think that going to a service academy before medical school, and serving in the military while learning medicine would greatly benefit me. How much worse can a person get than after they get nailed with a machine gun, or maimed by a mine. I want to help those people, and I think it would be a great learning experience.</p>

<p>I'm expecting high SAT scores, and like I said, my GPA is definitely not perfect but I've had a hard time outside of school, and a traumatic experience plus a move in the middle of high school hurt my grades. I realize this doesn't mean my 3.6 or so will be readjusted to a 4.0, but I didn't get a 3.6 entirely from being lazy, only partially.</p>

<p>Anyway, which service academies would best suit me? What are the service academies looking for? What if I'm not a varsity quarter back, and have never ran on the track team?</p>

2

<p>When you convey your opinion that a Service Academy does not suggest prestige, I doubt you will have much success in getting an appointment.</p>

<p>Approximately 12,000 people vie for the 1200 appointments each year at USNA. USNA is more highly selective than many of the well known ivy league institutions. The admittance process is long and arduous, and a nomination is the gatekeeper to an appointment for many.</p>

<p>You convey an attitude of "what can a Service Academy do for me?" They are looking for what you can do for them and the military in general. They are looking for good leaders. You do not get any guarantees of service selection, and if you are thinking medical school, give it up as only a small number (Maybe 10) go on after commissioning supported by the military. If you want to wait until your committment is over, then it is on your dime.</p>

<p>Service Academy is not "free". The cost comes from the loss of liberty and freedom as you hand over almost all decision making regarding your life, including when you can sleep and what you can or cannot do.</p>

<p>What grade are you in? If you are a Junior, I would hope you had already taken the SAT by now.</p>

<p>Reconsider your choice. A Service Academy is not a "default" school. Those who enter with that attitude rarely make it all the way to commissioning.
CM</p>

3

<p>I didn't say a service academy doesn't convey prestige. Perhaps you should read more carefully before wasting your carpals with all that typing.</p>

<p>I said that I don't have much money, so in most cases that eliminates the idea of attending a prestigious school, so that's one of the reasons I would consider a service academy.</p>

<p>Worded differently, service academies are prestigious and free, so that is one of the many reasons I have chosen to look into them.</p>

<p>If I do indeed enter, it won't be with an attitude, why would I attend a school I don't want to attend?</p>

4

<p>Get student loans!</p>

5

<p>I'm considering that too, thanks Oregon Mom. Service academies are an option too though. A lot of my family members have served in the military and I admire their stories, and they're all great people. So I'm inspired to do the same though my ultimate goal is medical school.</p>

<p>Anyone care to answer my questions?</p>

6

<p>uh, don't go to a service academy if you want to go to med school. ur chances of getting med school after graduation is about 3 in a 1000. plus u have a 5 year obligation to serve.</p>

7

<p>Where do you get 3/1000 from? Nowhere.</p>

<p>Anyway, med school is only one thing I'm considering.</p>

<p>Please, I came to a parents forum hoping to get the answers I was looking for, not things like this, usually the parents forum works better.</p>

<p>I want to know the answer to the questions I asked about service academies. I'm interested in at least thinking about applying to one or two.</p>

8

<p>no, i get that number from the average number of cadets who get med school on average out of a class consisting of about 1000 cadets, which is the typical class size. i go to a service academy, so dont say i'm pulling these numbers out of thin air.
people like you come on these forums all the time and say how you want to go to the academy to do this and that. that's not what the academy is for. sure its okay if you want to leave the army, navy, or air force after ur obligation is up, but dont come here thinking it's a gateway to big success. other people on this forum will tell u the same exact thing. if u want to go to med school get some loans out cause chances are you will never attend med school if you go to an academy.</p>

9

<p>Okay, one thing right off. Drop the arrogance. At the service academies, nobody gives a crap who the hell you are. People are offering advice, take it. You don't seem to have answers (hence asking questions) so if someone gives you an answer it would probably be a good idea to listen to it, not brush it off. The people telling you you have little chance at med school immediately after graduation are spot on. According to some official documents I am reading right now, the DoD permits up to two percent of each graduating class to attend med school right after graduation. Now, if there are 1000 people graduating (out of an original class of 1200, mind you. the attrition rate varies each year but 900-1000 is usually a pretty good ballpark number) then that means 20 people is the max for that year going to med school. I'm quite sure West Point doesn't actually send that many (DoD permits UP TO that number). That gives you a VERY slim chance of getting in.</p>

<p>Now, some advice --</p>

<p>First: I suggest you do a bit more reading up about the academies on their respective websites. That should clear up some of your misconceptions (not to mention clear up the fact that these are MILITARY academies and you have to SERVE after graduation... it's not just TAKE what you want and LEAVE).</p>

<p>Second: Do NOT rebuke someone for giving you advice. There are a lot of people that do that in this world and generally unless those people go through a MAJOR attitude change, they tend to fail at a place as RIGOROUS and HONORABLE as a service academy.</p>

<p>(BTW--the facts I presented regarding med school were from documents pertaining to West Point only... though I'm sure all of the academies have the same policy on med school.)</p>

10

<p>Godfather, its hard for anyone to answer your question the way you put it out there. Let me kinda turn it around and put a few things out there for you to think about.
Is your #1 goal to become an officer in the US Military?
Answer: It sure better be. Academies demand it.
Are you involved with, or a leader of any clubs/groups in your school?
Answer: This would probably be a good experience & you should sign up now. Its a good indicator of your leadership abilities.
Do you compete in any sport as of this year?
Answer: Competing sometimes means that one will go for a goal & stick to it until he has achieved it. Another good indicator in the application process.
Have you read about any of the academy requirements to be considered for an appointment?
Answer: Less than 300 kids were picked worldwide from USMMA. So if you apply to these places, you'd better have a kick butt resume. They have to know that you can walk the walk once you get there. Its the whole package they look for not just the academics which have to be top quality on top of everything else.
What are your military interests/goals?
Your turn.</p>

<p>Maybe go back & read several of the threads on here to get a handle on what goes on at Academies. Go to their websites & have a look around. The scholarship dollar amount gets most people. Don't let it fool you. Get educated on it. Its NOT free. My son will serve his country for up to 8 years. BUT he wants it that way because he wants to serve and protect this country. Your education will be above and beyond what you could imagine at this point. Just research some and try to decide if the regimental lifestyle, the pain & agony of training, the four hours of sleep at night from studying, giving up your young adult life, (& I could go on....) is something you feel you are dedicated to. People do become doctors from academies. Talk about dedication! Think about almost everything you know & love. Now think about giving it all up to do something bigger than yourself. Think about being pushed beyond all of your limits on a daily basis. I don't live it but I see it through an outsider's view & it ain't pretty. Its the hardest thing you will ever do in your young life and trust me, several do not make it. I don't want to sound like a nagging mamma. I just want you to think about the reasons why your interests are peaked. Truly, just do some reading and come back tomorrow. We'll be here.</p>

11

<p>I have rehashed the medical school after academy thing many times over. The odds are not 3/1000 as quoted above; however, they aren't much better. WP, AF, USNA all allow up to 2% of their graduates to go straight into medical school. Seeing as though not every graduate wants to go to medical school this does not mean you only have a 2% chance. Basically 20 are allowed to go, this is probably more than or only slightly lower than the actual number of graduates who want to go to med school. The key is that you have to have the grades to get into medical school, so you probably need to be at least in the top 10-20% of your class to be accepted.</p>

<p>If you want to go to medical school then consider the academies an option. They are not the easiest option for getting to medical school, but it can be done and many have in the past.</p>

<p>Now onto your original questions. The academies are a great place to "be from" they are all prestigous and are for the most part monetarily free. I do not recommend applying to the academies simply because they are prestigous and free, if you truly have a desire to serve your country then go for it. </p>

<p>Just because you may not have much money does not preclude you from attending a "prestigous" college. Yes saying you went to XYZ college is cool, but to be honest in the end I don't think it matters. There are always student loans, grants, and scholarships available to help pay for more expensive schools.</p>

12

<p>Listen to the Doctor ^</p>

13

<p>Godfather, you have been pwnd.</p>

14

<p>From reading your post it seems that you would like to attend a prestigious university for free. Based on your grades (so so) and extra-curriculars (doesn't seem to be too much in the leadership/varsity sports dept etc), your chances of getting a nomination and appointment at this point would be fairly slim. That being said, if you are interested in a service academy, like the others said, read all you can get your hands on about each one. Get in touch with your Blue and gold officer (USNA) and equivalent for the other academies and talk to them. I think many parents on this site would take offense at your flip attitude toward the academies and might be part of the attitudes you are seeing. Our kids worked for typically 2 years and more to gain entrance to the academies on top of getting great grades, full extra-curric. resumes etc. It is an unbelievably arduous process applying to these places and reality checks hit each step of the way. There are deadlines, ups and downs and then comes the waiting. And that is just the application process. Once you get to the academy, you realize that you are just one of many many talented individuals and the upper classmen don't think you're so hot. It's a humbling experience that will break you if your only goal is to get a free education and then not mind serving a few years. Many private schools give good scholarships and need-based financial aid is awesome. You may be surprised at how you really can afford a private civilian school and it might be more in keeping with your future goals. Good luck.</p>

15

<p>
[quote]
My final ambition is to go to medical school.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Instant red flag.</p>

<p>What's more important, being an officer, or being a doctor? If the answer is being a doctor, then go somewhere else. The Academies have a number of graduates go to Medical School (my class had three that I know of), but the odds are astronomically against you.</p>

<p>Besides, there are grants, loans, and scholarships that can be applied for. You can also get a job with an employer who will pay for you to go to school, provided the degree is related to their business field.</p>

<p>I know. I have a BS from USNA and two Master's from the University of Miami, and none of them cost me one red cent. It CAN be done.</p>

<p>The BS, however, cost me a total of ten years of commited study and service. Unless you're ready to spring for that while NOT being a doctor, then I suggest you go elsewhere.</p>

<p>ETA: Oh, and I suggest you drop the attitude. You don't rate it.</p>

16

<p>"What's more important, being an officer, or being a doctor"</p>

<p>This is such a dead horse, but I'm still going to beat it. There is nothing wrong with going to a service academy with an ultimate goal of going to medical school. Military physicians are first, and foremost, officers in the US Military. Also saying the odds of going to medical school out of one of the academies is "astronomically against you" is slightly misinformed. The odds of going to medical school out of any college is 'astronomically' low. Most of the arguments quote the 2% rate, this is simply a non-issue for the most part. As stated above it equates to about 20 per class. There usually aren't even 20 in each class who even want to go to medical school so it doesn't really factor. In my class alone there are 5 USNA grads, 4 AFA grads, and I think 4 WP grads. And that is in one class at one medical school. There are several other grads in the HPSP program at civilian schools.</p>

<p>If you want to say that service academies aren't there to produce physicians then I say you are wrong as well. The military health system needs well trained military physicians. Those with prior service including Academy time are light-years ahead of their peers when it comes to the way the military works. Coming out of an Academy and going to medical school basically buys you a 20 year commitment (at a very minimum it would be 15yrs) so the government gets a career officer. I consider that a better investment than those who go to the Academies and then get out at 5yrs. If you argue that the Academies are meant to produce line officers I would agree; however, without the staff officers the line officers would be hard-up to do their job. You try to get civilian doctors to go do six month to one year tours in Iraq or Afghanistan for about half to 3/4 their regular pay. </p>

<p>I'll get off my soap box now</p>

17

<p>If you want to be both an officer and doctor, I think one of the ROTC programs might fit your situation better. I know AFROTC has a specific section (application option) for students seeking to become doctors. You may want to investigate that further. (Can anyone else explain this better?)</p>

<p>Also, scholarships can add up quickly. You may be able to go to quite a few colleges for very little cost.</p>

<p>Just make sure you think things over. Ten years or more (college plus active duty/reserve) is a big commitment.</p>

18

<p>
[quote]
There is nothing wrong with going to a service academy with an ultimate goal of going to medical school. Military physicians are first, and foremost, officers in the US Military. Also saying the odds of going to medical school out of one of the academies is "astronomically against you" is slightly misinformed. The odds of going to medical school out of any college is 'astronomically' low. Most of the arguments quote the 2% rate, this is simply a non-issue for the most part. As stated above it equates to about 20 per class. There usually aren't even 20 in each class who even want to go to medical school so it doesn't really factor.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>You're making the assumption that as long as there are billets available, that anyone who wants to can go to Med school out of a Service Academy. Not true. At USNA at any rate, the selection process was extremely picky, so I am not misinformed. </p>

<p>If you want to be a doctor, go somewhere else. If you want to be a doctor in the military for 15-20 years, AND you're willing to roll the dice on not getting to do so because of the highly-selective admissions process, then by all means pick a Service Academy.</p>

<p>However, I still contend that the SA's should not be looked at as a primary means of becoming a doctor if that is your goal (rather than being an officer). While it can be done, it's extremely risky when compared to other well-respected means of achieving the same goal. It comes down to priorities.</p>

19

<p>What bothers me is not that you want to go to medical school after the academy, but rather the fact that he doesn't seem to really want to be in the military.</p>

<p>


</p>

<p>As you say, you only seem to think being in the military would be a learning experience. That it will be, I assure you, but you are being very callous about the whole thing.</p>

<p>I have no problem with being a army/navy doctor... we NEED corpsmen/medics as much as we need the infantry. But it seems like you only want to go to an SA because it's free and prestigious and you can get into med school (possibly). I know you say earlier that those AREN'T your only reasons, but even if you look through the quote above, you seem to say 'ME' a lot. The SA's are not about 'you'. Selfless service. Look it up.</p>

20

<p>"You're making the assumption that as long as there are billets available, that anyone who wants to can go to Med school out of a Service Academy. Not true. At USNA at any rate, the selection process was extremely picky, so I am not misinformed"</p>

<p>The selection process is picky because they will not pick someone who will not be admitted to medical school. Since the medical school application is picky then the selection at the academies is picky. </p>

<p>"AND you're willing to roll the dice on not getting to do so because of the highly-selective admissions process"</p>

<p>I will repeat my point: going to any school with the intent of going to medical school is a roll of the dice and is a 'highly-selective admissions process'. You will get to medical school if you have the right stuff no matter where you go to school.</p>

<p>"However, I still contend that the SA's should not be looked at as a primary means of becoming a doctor if that is your goal (rather than being an officer). "</p>

<p>Absolutely agreed. However people should not be dissuaded from going to the Academies because they think they want to be physicians. Most likely they will change their minds anyway, so in the end it it wouldn't matter.</p>

<p>Another point to make. If someone is not 'allowed' to go to medical school directly out of an Academy they can simply apply the next year or even after if they still want to go to medical school. So if you want to go to medical school don't be dissuaded from going to a service academy. It will not be easy wherever you go, going to a service academy will add another small hurdle to your path.</p>