Questions for you experienced parents from a lost teen

Parents Forum
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<p>I am a senior in high school and in the process of choosing a college to go to. At this point, my first chance to make a real life decision, I have found myself trying to figure out the type of person I want to become and the career I want to have. I've started to look at adults not just as older people, but a type of person I may become. </p>

<p>Realizing that you have already gone through this and have wound up proud parents of college bound children I cannot think of better people to seek advice. First I was wondering if the name of your school has helped to get opportunities throughout your careers, and if you think the name of your school really carries any weight or makes a difference. Also, if you could do it all over again (choosing a school to go to, your life in college, and anything after) what would you do differently? Knowing what you know now, would you have gone with a cheaper school with a slightly lower reputation or does a cost difference between colleges now seem like a much smaller obstacle and one worth doing?</p>

<p>Any other insight into how you came to choose your career or advice for those trying to choose one to pursue would be great.. i need as much guidance as i can get as i'm sure your children do too. Thanks so much for any help</p>

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<p>"I've started to look at adults not just as older people, but a type of person I may become."</p>

<p>This is a very wise statement, though I must warn you that we will often disappoint you.</p>

<p>The first thing I would ask is whether you really need to be in school next year at all. Are there any dreams unfulfilled, areas unexplored, people who could become your mentors, trips not taken that could be better accomplished by taking a year off than by going to college. I would have used my college time much more wisely had I taken a gap year, and used it well. I would have been more mature, I would have been better able to take full advantage of professors as resources and mentors had I taken the extra year to know myself better. For most people, there is no rush. Your youth only comes once, so use it wisely.</p>

<p>The name of my so-called "prestigious" (undergraduate) school has had absolutely no impact on my career, except as they helped me (through a fellowship) get to my next destination. I have never been aided in any way by my alumni office (and they have the oldest alumni organization in the United States); and I have never had a boss who had even heard of the place. </p>

<p>Prices are so different than when I was in college that it is hard to comment on your question about costs vs. reputation. It was possible in the dark ages to work like the Dickens during the summer, and during the school year, and actually be able to pay close to the full cost of a prestige education without any assistance from parents, and with little in the way of loans. It doesn't work that way anymore. However, if your parents are the ones doing the paying, don't necessarily assume that they don't want to pay as much as it takes. A prestige college admission for junior is often worn around the neck like a fancy piece of jewelry for a decade, and from that point of view, may give them great pleasure IF they have it to give.</p>

<p>As it turns out, I never chose a career. I have always identified myself as a writer, and have always managed to make a decent living doing it. I've been the media relations director for a human rights agency, a publisher (founded my own publishing house), a college teacher, an author of multiple books, a magazine columnist, a lecturer and speaker, a public health professional, storyteller, and state policy maker. I have learned heaps from all of them, and when I see all the unhappy folks in much better paying careers around me, I pinch myself, and know that I've been one heckuva lucky guy.</p>

<p>May you be so lucky!</p>

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<p>I endorse most of what Mini says. I also would advise not to focus on a college because of its name or its perceived ability to open doors. The most important thing is for you to enjoy the next four years, to learn and to grow as a human being. Most students change their minds during their college years as to what they want to major in; many adults regret not taking more courses outside of their majors when they had the chance. Choose the college that provides the best mixture of academics and social scene for you. And if you remain undecided, taking a year off is a good option.</p>

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<p>When I was a senior in HS, I was convinced that I wanted to design airplanes. I was in love with aircraft and went to Georgia Tech to major in aerospace engineering. I got a co-op job with a defense contractor and decided that THAT was NOT a career path for me and changed majors.</p>

<p>So you can be as certain as you want in HS, but be prepared to change your mind like a high percentage of other students.</p>

<p>I think careers find you, but you must take opportunities as they come. This means that in college you should participate in the activities you like: write for the school newspaper, join a travel club, work off campus for a local candidate, get involved with the research of a professor you like, ....</p>

<p>Notice that I did NOT say to decide now what you want and put your nose to the grindstone and make a 4.0 in college to get into a good grad school. College is the time to explore and let that life path find you. So go to a school that gives you lots of opportunities nor extracurricular activities and opportunities for taking lots of varied electives and explore, explore, explore....</p>

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<p>dpianin - I graduated from Princeton. It has had an effect on my career over and over again. Most importantly, going to school there meant that when I wanted to return to the work force after several years as a full-time mom I had credibility beyond my actual experience. But the funny thing is, I didn't go for the prestige. I went because I was 17 and liked the lawns. Then when I got there, I majored in an obscure humanities discipline because I loved it and I got to read killer books and lean languages and travel. Decades later, and after many, many, twists and turns, I have a career as a manager in the software industry. So even though I answer your question differently intially, my recommendation would still be the same as from the other parents. That school wouldn't have been right for me if I hadn't loved it. Go where it feels right and do what feels right when you get there. Even though my university helped my career, I know lots of people more successful than me who went to much less prestigious places. Many careers it makes no difference whatsoever where you went to school for your undergraduate degree. So go where it feels right - which may include where your family can afford, after all.</p>

<p>And why are you lost? What does(do) your parent(s) think?</p>

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<p>thanks for all the advice so far, i'm just having a tough time deciding. I know i def want to start college next year and am very excited for it, I think i may just be thinking too much about which school to go to. I know i'd have a great time at each, and i'm starting to realize its not the name that gives you a better education, its your attitude and how much you put into wherever you go. Money also makes it a much more difficult decision because if i'm under the impression that the name is not nearly as important as my efforts, why wouldnt I choose the cheapest of my choices and although its name is not as prestigious I wont get any more out of it than a "better" school.</p>

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<p>thanks for all the advice so far, i'm just having a tough time deciding. I know i definitely want to start college next year and am very excited to, I think i may just be thinking too much about which school to go to. I know i'd have a great time at each, and i'm starting to realize its not the name that gives you a better education, its your attitude and how much you put into wherever you go. Money also makes it a much more difficult decision because if i'm under the impression that the name is not nearly as important as my efforts, why wouldnt I choose the cheapest of my choices? Although its name is not as prestigious as another I wont get any more out of it than a "better" school...right?</p>

<p>I guess youre right when you say my career will come to me and I have to trust that it will. When I'm around adults I now actually listen to what they talk about and instead of finding it boring, the basic "adult talk", I listen to them more as people.. if that makes sense. I see adults that I want to be like, hear them talk about careers I want to have, see nice things I want to be able to afford and unhappy adults I dont want to be. Because of this I see choosing my college as the first step in becoming the person I want to become, and the first step in stearing clear of the type of person I dont. Maybe thats why I'm finding my decision to be so hard.</p>

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<p>dpianin:</p>

<p>Without some specifics, it's hard to give your more concrete advice. There is a difference among schools, and it may be worth the difference in financial costs. Some has to do with general fit (e.g., urban/surburban; large/medium/small) some has to do with the choice of majors and quality of faculty; a lot has to do with your prospective fellow students. While many members of the faculty probably graduated from the same schools, students can range widely in their degree of preparation for college, the seriousness with which they view their college studies, competitiveness, and so forth. So you need to ask yourself what your own criteria are. If the financial packages differ substantially, you also need to ask if the difference in quality is worth the extra expenses. Sometimes, going to a lower ranked school that gives you better financial aid enables you to focus more on your studies and generally enjoy college life. This is something worth keeping in mind.</p>

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<p>dpianin-
You have already heard from many of the "sages" on cc, who have all presented great things to think about. As you so aptly said, you are just beginning to face making big decisions that are not clear or easy ones to make. We can all reflect back and see the journeys that our lives have taken, and wonder "what if ?" I don't know if the name recognition of my undergrad helped me get into the grad programs to which I was accepted. There were certainly plenty of grad programs to whom it didn't matter, and from whom I received those feared skinny envelopes. I fully agree with those above who said to pick what will make you happy for the next 4 years.</p>

<p>Sometimes it can help to draw a line down the center of a piece of paper and write the pros and cons of each of your schools. Sometimes just seeing it concretely in front of you can help you to see your leanings. One thing might jump out at you as carrying a lot of weight in your decision, other things being equal. You can only base your decision on what you know now. Tough to postulate what "might" happen. </p>

<p>As for me, I chose my undergrad because at the time it was one of the few schools that had the major I wanted, and I am one who had the general idea of what field I wanted to go into when I was in HS and I haven't wavered. But that is probably the exception. The opportunity to pursue my major was the big "weighted" thing on my decision list. It is what I wanted. And I am glad I made the choice I did. My undergrad has name recognition, and I must admit it probably gets me some instant "credibility". As for my grad school, I am living in an area that is a huge rival of the school I attended, so hard to say what impact that has! Bottom line, if you feel comfortable with the decision you make, you won't second guess yourself when something happens along the way to make you ask yourself "what if".</p>

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<p>d;</p>

<p>First, give yourself an Attaboy (?) for the post. Many seniors have these questions in the back of their minds but few articulate them as you have.</p>

<p>When I was in high school, I organized a series of mini-internships for myself in hospitals (oh no to the medical field), courts (oh no to the law field) and art studios (oh maybe to the art field).</p>

<p>I decided to go into architecture. Art with Plumbing. </p>

<p>I had a choice between State U and--as I got off a Private U waitlist in August--a Private U.</p>

<p>I chose Private U over my parents objections. Although they could afford it, I ended up paying for nearly half of the tuition through summer work, RA, loans, year off etc.</p>

<p>The 'name' of the school did help me when I went to New York City to work. I worked for several world famous architects. </p>

<p>Honestly, I cannot think of a single colleague in those offices with a State U degree--although many had State U bachelors with Ivy masters. Most had Ivy degrees, they rest had Private U degrees (and I include Cooper Union as a Private U). One woman had a UCB degree. Maybe a draughtsman or two had City College degrees but none of the designers.</p>

<p>I opened up my own practice in NYC when I was 28. The 'name' of the school has not been important--but the names of the architects I worked for has been HUGELy important. Those names STILL win clients for our practice--twenty years later. All over the world. It is unbelieveable.</p>

<p>And, I should add, I learned the finer points of the art and the craft in those offices, among those talented colleagues. The learning was miles above the regular architect's offices I worked in during college. Miles.</p>

<p>Why don't State U kids get those jobs? Lack of confidence? Lack of training? I'm not sure.</p>

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<p>The "name" of my universities (I have several degrees) have had NO impact whatsoever on my career success, my friendships or my life as an adult. In fact, the "name" (or lack of name recognition) has really had no impact at all. I got a wonderful education where I went to school, and more importantly worked with some fine professionals and students who were my mentors and colleagues. The kind of person I have become was more defined by the experiences I had, and the people with whom I both studied and socialized, but mostly from within myself. As I look back on my life, I have few regrets (could I REALLY have been a performer on Broadway if I had only had more nerve??), and mostly fond memories.</p>

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<p>Dpianin - I've spent most of my career studying why college is a life-altering experience for some - what decisions lead to the best college outcomes - and why it falls flat for others. For me, college was such a profound process that I've done my best not to leave; I became a student affairs administrator and have spent the last 17 years as a VP for Student Affairs at two different universities.</p>

<p>Alumother says that her Princeton degree has opened many doors and positively influenced other's perceptions of her. I have no doubt that that's true. I don't know the Alma Maters of many of the faculty at my university, but I can certainly tell you all the ones who came out of Harvard, Yale and Princeton. I went to Wake Forest. Has its reputation had the same influence for me? Not really; Wake's reputation is still largely regional. But I think it offered something that's far more important than prestige, something that most selective colleges share (to varying degrees).</p>

<p>My college experience thrust me into a learning environment with a peer group that was highly-motivated and high-achieving. Almost everyone I knew in college was there to pursue personal goals to which they were deeply committed. If I had ever been at risk to lose my internal motivation, I couldn't have given in to it - the peer pressure to keep on and to achieve was too great to resist. My friends' expectations of one another continued beyond our college years, well into our career development.</p>

<p>In the '80s, Alexander Astin wrote "Four Critical Years" and followed it up with "What Matters in College." Among his findings in over 30 years of college student research was that the single greatest impact on students' goals and aspirations was not the college name, curriculum or faculty, but the peer group. Even controlling for all other personal and environmental factors, college students' aspirations tend to move most strongly in the direction of the dominant peer group's. I could have told Astin that as an undergrad.</p>

<p>H, Y and P have amazing faculty and wonderful alumni connections, but what they have more than anything else are student bodies full of young people who were motivated and talented enough to get into H, Y and P. You can find those kinds of people at most campuses, but at more selective colleges, you find that they're not only present but tend to define the campus culture. Your ability to find and join a student population that is achieving in those directions in which you hope to achieve, is for me the best criterion on which to select a college.</p>

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<p>gadad: I was recently reminded of the truth of your point about the peer group. I had my 25th reunion. They make a huge deal of this at Pton - down to a parade with all the classes dressed in various costumes featuring black, orange, and tigers. Anyway, I got involved in planning some pieces of the event for our class. My reaction? Omigod I forgot what it is like to deal with such smart, verbal, orginal, funny, energetic and don't forget funny people. And I work with software people who are pretty heavy on the brain cells. I would sit at my desk laughing out loud reading emails from people I barely knew. </p>

<p>And I am by no means thinking that there are lots of great peer groups at many other universities, just taking a minute to enjoy remembering mine.</p>

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<p>thanks so much for all of your great advice. I was right to ask this forum and you all are definitely the ones to best give advice which many kids dont yet realize. I do feel much more relaxed about making this decision and in a way you have all cleared my head. I've realized that its not the school name that is important, but the attitude towards your work and goals that will give you an edge. I've almost completely decided on the "better" school but now for different reasons. I think that since a higher ranked school attracts a higher caliber of student I'd like to surround myself with that type to better motivate myself. Thanks again so much for all your help, I feel much better about my decision.</p>

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<p>That was supposed to read that I am by no means thinking that there AREN'T great peer groups at other Us. Phew. Caught by the double negative.</p>

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<p>I think some are overlooking some real life issues. For example- do you desire, and truly expect to be in the running for our nation's Supreme Court Justice? Or do you seek to be a successful lawyer? Is it really your desire to buy out Fidelity, or to be successful in business?
My experience is that for most every average white collar job(and remember about 60% of white collar jobs are average- thats what average is), a college degree gets one considered. After that, the individual, his work experience, his skills, and his interview usually make or break the job offer.
I haven't found companies yet that are "hiring a Harvard grad to...." Harvard may be our oldest U, and one of the most prestigious, but in real life, for 90% of college grads most accredited colleges will do.
For those who think being a grad from Harvard or other "prestigous schools" is the only way to go, look at it from another angle- how many successful men and women there are today that didn't attend Harvard!</p>

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<p>Great post gadad....</p>

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<p>dpianin--
What I found was that the name of my undergraduate alma mater (a seven sibling school) has led to prospective employer's assuming that I was intelligent (not that I'm not, but I'm definitely not brilliant). In terms of my graduate school alma mater, although it was a state university in the midwest, folks in the field had great respect for the program.</p>

<p>In short, I found that the name of the undergrad college and the reputation of the grad program (not necessarily the school itself) counted for something. That said, I must confess that I did not choose my undergrad college for its reputation. In fact, I was totally clueless about its reputation but fell in love with its campus. I did choose my grad school for the program's reputation and the calibre of the faculty, many of whom were pioneers in the field.</p>

<p>Good luck!</p>

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<p>What an interesting set of questions -- and responses.</p>

<p>I would say that the "name" on our Brown degrees has had little impact on my husband's and my careers -- but that is in part because we returned to the midwest to live, where people are often more impressed by named like Miami and Purdue than Brown or Princeton -- and in part because we have made very intentional chocies to forego the fast track. We both starting out flying in careers and eventually chose to step back. My husband turned down many requests to transfer to new locations and I have been in and out of the worksforce in ways not atypical of women my age (51) -- all in an effort to put the stability of our family and interests of our children ahead of our career progress. (Don't read any self-righteous sanctimony into that. We have simply done what best matched our personalities. My husband hated the politics of the international corporate world and I found my children far more intriguing than corproate litigation . I would never suggest that our inclinations are or should be universal, but they did make it easier for us to make certain choices.) Had we stayed in the corporate executive and corperate legal track, we might have found the name on our degrees to be of more significance.</p>

<p>OTH, although you will not see our names in prestigious professional journals (where, by the way, you will often see the names of friends of ours who went to far less prestigious schools but made different career choices), we have been deeply engaged in community, school, and church, often in leadership positions. I would venture that it is the college experience itself, not a particular college, that provided us with the tools and confidence for those experiences.</p>

<p>If I had it to do over again? I would not have gone to college right out of college. I was an astonishingly immature young woman at 18. And had I given it some time, perhaps I would have come to know my bookish and geographically adventurous self a good bit better. If I were a senior at this very moment, I think I would be choosing Reed, with a year off before enrollment. Maybe even two years.</p>

<p>As for my own children, one of them, ambitious and single-mindedly studious, attends a prestigious university . Another is is far more cognizant of the financial repercussions of spending $160,000 before the age of 23, and is at a state university. And my youngest, finishing high school at an intensely competitive private school, is looking at colleges where a fine academic education is a given but also where interests beyond the classroom can be pursued without the sensation that every hour away from the books is destroying the old GPA.</p>

<p>Everyone of us is different. It's the wise person who at age 18 can really assess his or her own priorities and interests. Good luck to you.</p>

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<p>I personally don't think that the name of a school or its perceived prestige guarantees any success for an individual. Most companies here in Silicon Valley DO NOT hire strictly on college name. Most actively recruit from a variety of colleges in-state (UCs, CSUs and private institutions) as well as out-of-state. A school's name may play a role in recruiting management positions though, i.e. many companies seem to like hiring Stanford MBAs for CEO, CFO, CIO positions.</p>

<p>There seems to be a lot of emphasis on CC regarding the prestige of a school, the school's ranking, etc., but CC is not necessarily the "real world." My recommendation to you is to go to a good school (however you choose to define that), get a good education and enjoy your undergraduate experience.</p>

<p>If I had to do it all over again, I probably would have attended a different college (I went to a private, expensive Jesuit college out of state), would definitely have studied harder in high school, would have stayed at my first real job (Intel Corporation) longer than 14 months, etc.</p>