<p>Recently circumstances have come to my attention which have reinforced my concern for the undergraduate voice experience at conservatories. I would encourage any of you whose young singers have prescreened and are offered an audition to ask the following questions:</p>
<p>How many singers entered as freshman for the current (graduating) senior class?</p>
<p>How many of those will be graduating?</p>
<p>What are the plans of the graduating singers, i.e. will they be in graduate school and/or still in music?</p>
<p>If the school is unable or unwilling to give you hard numbers, find a senior voice major and ask the questions, even if anecdotally. </p>
<p>Thanks Lorelei. It is a set of questions that is valuable and similar to ones we asked. These are better though. </p>
<p>However, do you have a sense that this is now worse than other tough majors like engineering or pre-med? Those have always had a process to weed out those who may be academically qualified but not really suited for the career. S1 had that happen in education. They put them through course and experiences in freshman year to get the ones not suited out before really committed though extensive course work. DD's friend found out that he really like to sing and was good at it but really hated studying music. He is selecting another major. So is it a good thing or a bad thing? .</p>
<p>lorelei - how are graduate assistants used in programs that have large graduate programs? I assume they respond honestly to questions about the use of graduate assistants. I know this is not directly related to the questions you suggest, but use of graduate students would impact the undergraduate experience.</p>
<p>Sometimes the graduate students are the very best part of the undergraduate experience. I have been involved in teaching situations where the first and second year students were shared between the major professor and a trusted, well established graduate student, with the student participating in everything with the studio, and having lessons with both the graduate student and the major professor (with the corresponding graduate student always sitting in). At the end of first or second year, when studio room opened in such a way that the young singer could go full time with the major professor, not a single student opted to give up the graduate student association, which usually ended when the graduate student finished and left (taking a teaching job for which they were by now quite well trained and qualified). So do not be so quick to be concerned about work with a graduate student. However, if the incoming student will ONLY have a graduate student, there should be concern and inquiry about procedure and how to get with major professor.</p>
<p>Singersmom, concern is about more than the weeding out process of barrier exams and statistical attrition. It is about how students are being nurtured and advised through their undergraduate experience. Every school has barrier exams in performance programs, and those are both appropriate and necessary. If noone is getting through them, however, and a high percentage are dropping out, there is something seriously wrong with the faculty and/or the program.</p>
<p>I'd like to add that young musicians should also ask THEMSELVES some hard questions. Often times, students leave conservatories because they aren't ready to be in such an intense environment. Is isn't because they aren't talented; it's because they are simply unhappy. The "conservatory experience" is not the same as the "college experience." I wouldn't just chalk up poor retention rates to the school being unsupportive or poor--there are many reasons why people leave a school or decide to pursue paths other than music. Many of my colleagues have chosen to pursue music business or education, not because my school prepared them poorly, but because they simply changed their focus.</p>
<p>Thanks for the great advice Lorelei.
We have found that we get more accurate, detailed insights from students when we visit. My D decided not to apply to a well-regarded program on the west coast when everyone we talked to said the same thing -- cutthroat program, everybody switching out of performance majors. This was not the environment she was looking for despite their outside reputation. Student at another school described those students who switched out of the major after freshman year as not able to handle the time/organization for a music major. This was ok to her as it is a given and faculty were supportive of the kids.</p>
<p>THanks for the questions to ask, Lorelei. I have been asking how many singers are in school's freshman classes, but it didn't occur to me to ask how many actually graduate!</p>
<p>I agree it is good to know the number of students who actually complete the music course of study. BUT keep in mind there are MANY reasons for the attrition and some of them may be unrelated to the school itself. Some students simply change their minds about majoring in music and either switch majors or transfer to different schools. Some students are disappointed with their "pecking order" at the college level, and make a decision that this is not the career for them. Some students love the performing aspect of their program but hate the theory, pedagogy and history classes that are part of their studies...and they decide to leave. Occasionally schools will somehow have more students enroll on an instrument than they anticipated (better yield than they thought), and there are decreased opportunities...especially for the newbies. None of these things is a reflection of the program...these are personal student decisions.</p>
<p>If you are asking about the attrition rate, you might want to find out WHY students are leaving a program. Of course, this is a harder thing to find out....you can't exactly ask the applied teachers "gee...how come so many students left your program". </p>
<p>When DS was applying as a freshman, we actually got phone calls from students who had transferred, telling him their reasons for transfering out of school A into school B. This was from schools where he was being courted....and they knew his other choices. I found it odd...but it was helpful to him.</p>
<p>Students who are strong enough in talent and on their instrument should be savy enough to know what they are doing. However, sometimes the reality overwhelms them. But sometimes they are not guided and nurtured....and this is my problem with the undergraduate conservatory experience for singers. They are not wanted (by many faculty), and their growth, experience, training is not a high priority for the opera program. Hence the need for the questions.....</p>
<p>Just an added thing...any undergrad applying to music programs needs to ask about undergrad vs. grad opportunities. At some places, the grads get priority, leaving some undergrads very frustrated.</p>
<p>Lorelei is certainly more knowledgeable about vocal programs...but one thing I think I know is that the voice may not be mature or developed enough in undergrads to really be in contention for opera roles (which require a more mature and trained voice). Could this be the reason that some of the faculty puts their efforts more into grad students? Knowing what undergrad opportunities for performance are available is important (and this applies for students on instruments other than voice as well). </p>
<p>I know, for example, that the opera institute at Boston University is a POST graduate school program. Most of the students accepted into it are students who are beyond their formal college training and now are in their opera training program. HOWEVER, for undergrads in voice, there are other performance opportunities at BU...just not opera.</p>
<p>As far as I know, aside from technical prowess, a young singer would have difficulty physically singing an entire opera. It takes alot of correctly trained muscles to sing a demanding opera. If you try to sing at length without the proper training, you resort to damaging techniques to compensate.</p>
<p>Many voice faculty members at conservatories do not want to admit undergraduates, but they must to remain comprehensive. There are many variables in the maturation process and it is hard to predict who will and who will not emerge as a fine singer. Voice teachers know this and they would just as soon wait until it all settles out. (Good teachers would prefer, however, to build solid vocal techniques in a voice unsullied by inappropriate vocal demands....not much fun to repair bad technique, and it cannot always be accomplished.) There are many good roles undergraduates can sing, but they cannot manage the more romantic repertory of Puccini and Verdi. There are Mozart, bel canto, and operetta roles which are quite doable. </p>
<p>This is beside the point, however. Some fine young talents are admitted to and choose to attend conservatories. However, they may not receive the same kind of nurturing and education they would receive at a good state university or LAC. Additionally, the east coast conservatories are swamped with international students who may or may not communicate very well in English. This affects the sense of community for everyone. If the undergraduate singer wants to grow and be inspired by graduate students, it makes a difference if they speak different languages. I have heard countless singers from graduate programs at the major NYC conservatories in auditions for summer opera programs who cannot communicate in English well enough to be understood or to understand the most basic questions. I cannot understand how it is they are passing their academic work at these schools......</p>
<p>This discussion is fascinating to a non-musical mom. My daughter was attracted to LACs tho their reputation is not as great as the top conservatories, and now I am glad for this. You have verbalized/confirmed things we only suspected. We are having trouble comparing the faculty in some of these programs as our voice teacher only knows people in the top programs and she is pretty quick to dismiss the LAC programs. Guess we will see what schools are on our final accepted list and look for more input...? Personally, I would like to find a nurturing, inspiring environment for my young singer. We have talked to too many students who have gone into top level programs and after a year they are ready to give up singing altogether as all the joy has been taken out of it. That would be my worst nightmare as a parent.</p>
<p>You are wise to fear that outcome, singermom2, because that happens a lot. It is a much better scenario for a young singer to decide to explore other options when he/she is in an educational environment which can provide a broader education. The hiring of applied music faculty is very much driven by performance resumes, and while that may provide a good teacher, it should not be the primary criteria. That is part of why the trial lesson is so crucial, but of course the personal fit and communication is important, too.</p>