Quit HS marching band senior year?

College Majors Music Major
1

<p>I've always thought quitting HS marching band was a bad idea for prospective music major BUT...</p>

<p>DS is a strong low brass player in a public HS band program with a consuming & competitive marching program. Summer band and sectionals create so many schedule conflicts that he doesn't have time/energy to do much in the way of festivals or outside ensembles. He would love to not march his senior year but his director says this isn't an option. However DS is bored with the HS program in general, esp the marching music and could really use the time to work on college apps, auditions, and composition portfolio. We are trying to figure out how to fit in private composition lessions (in addition to piano and horn lessons). It seems like something has to give.</p>

<p>Ideally, he'd still get to participate in spring concert season as well as all-state and solo contests but it will require a pretty big fight with a nazi type director which only a few select players have managed to win.</p>

<p>So, does it sound worth upsetting the director that much? Will it hurt his college chances? What might be some consequences we've not thought of? DS is dreading the confrontation!</p>

2

<p>I have no respect for a music teacher that will put the program above the student’s needs if they know the student is focused on an audition/portfolio driven admit in anticipation of an undergrad music pursuit.</p>

<p>This is especially true of the student that is actively involved in high level music outside of the high school environment, where the instruction and experiences are more direct;y linked to chances for audition/admission success.</p>

<p>But it is a two way street. The student needs to make the teacher/department aware of plans and goals, preferably as early as possible. You really can’t wait till senior year, and for many, it’s not unusual to have settled on an plan and path prior to hitting hs, or by the end of the sophomore year. </p>

<p>Few hs programs are equipped to develop and nurture high level talent, and in many cases they may just not know how to deal with it. Most kids, at least in my experience, are willing to do what they can within the program requirements, provided they have some flexibility.</p>

<p>Communication is key. If he’s a junior now, NOW is the time to have this conversation with the music teacher/band director, and administration if necessary. Try and come to an arrangement that serves the student, the director, and the program, but if push comes to shove, unless he needs the course to fulfill the graduation requirements, not participating at all is your ace in the hole. </p>

<p>I don’t advocate burning bridges, but there are times you may need to replace a few weak or rotten planks.</p>

<p>There are additional insights and thoughts here <a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/403272-what-if-your-childs-hs-music-teacher-stinks.html?highlight=teacher[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/403272-what-if-your-childs-hs-music-teacher-stinks.html?highlight=teacher&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

3

<p>I want to take a different tack…
I believe that networking and performing at prestigious music festivals make a strong presence on Music school transcripts.
Workshops with prestigious teachers in your son’s instrument are transcript worthy.
I vote dumping marching band-the band director is not in control of your son’s music future.
Again, IMHO.</p>

4

<p>I think Violadad pretty much wrote what I would, that if you are serious about going into music and need to prepare for auditions (or if on composition, submitting a portfolio) and if the school music program for whatever reasons doesn’t work for you (my high school was like what you describe, to be in the instrumental program you had to be in marching band, unless you happened to be on the football team), you might be better off dropping the program and concentrating on what you need to get to your goal. Unfortunately,there are school music directors who forget that what is best for their program may not be best for the student, and some of them quite frankly in my experience are to the level of being dictators, blind to anything but ‘the needs of the program’ Also, I sincerely believe that a lot of school music directors and the like don’t really have a clue about what top level music programs require these days, and they can’t fathom that kids often can’t ‘get serious’ in college, which may have been true when they went to school, that to get into a high level program you have to be really focused. I have also run into the attitude that somehow you "owe the school’ something, when often the level the student has achieved has very little to do with the school, that it is pretty much one way (i.e almost parasitic in nature), but there is this attitude like the school owns you or something…</p>

<p>I would agree, it would be best if you didn’t have to do it acrimoniously, but if you feel you need to do it then by all means quit the school program. First of all, I wonder if you are a serious music student (which you seem to be), how much you would get out of it, most school programs are full of kids like me, who liked doing it but were not exactly focused or driven. If so, then what would be the point, it would seem to be a hindrance with little else to come back to you, other then being with other kids in the band (which has its charms, I grant you, but still, is it worth potentially jeopardizing your chances to get into a program you want to for that?). As far as it hurting you in the audition process, unless for some program you needed the music directors recommendation (which quite frankly, I doubt would be needed at a high level music school, and if you need recommendations a school music director probably wouldn’t hold all that much weight, as opposed to let’s say a high level teacher at a summer program or prep program). And I doubt a school music director, assuming they were dumb enough to try (think serious lawsuits here), could put in a blackball or whatever. </p>

<p>Obviously, this is just my opinion, I would recommend going with what your gut tells you, usually works for me:). I wish you luck!</p>

5

<p>It sounds like your son may get more out of outside ensembles than he gets out of marching band. It sounds like he may not be able to participate in any band ensembles at school without doing marching band (this is the case at many public schools that I’m familiar with). If your son is interested in majoring in music, I think schools may look more favorably on a kid who participated in a good youth symphony, has an impressive portfolio of music he composed, and has great audition pieces, than a kid who did four years of marching band. If marching is preventing him from doing some of these things, I don’t think it will hurt him to drop school band.</p>

6

<p>I agree that other programs and summer camps/festivals are far more valuable than high school band. Our experience was that the HS band director was only interested in what was good for his program, and did not understand that the time commitment for marching band was counter-productive to the preparation required for gaining admission to college music programs.</p>

<p>At Son’s school, anyone participating in Symphonic (the highest) band must also participate in marching band, but marching band is optional for those participating in Concert band. Because of this rule and the time commitment for marching band, my S decided that he would drop band altogether for Senior year since he was not willing to march or be in the lower level band. He was aware that this decision also meant that he would not be able to participate in All-State, and perhaps other outside programs. Where we live, it is required that those in youth orchestra, for example, also participate in their school music program if one is offered for their instrument. </p>

<p>In February of Junior year, my S advised the band director of his decision to drop band. Son’s friend, (#1 All-State for his instrument) also told the director that he would not march for Senior year, but he was willing to drop to Concert band. The director tried to make them feel guilty, and said things like it was their responsibility to help make the band better, etc. It made the director crazy that his top students either were not going to be in band at all or would be in the lower level band, so he reluctantly decided to change the rule about marching band. As a result, the current rule is that if anyone makes All-State, they are not required to do marching band the next year. </p>

<p>End of story is that S is in band for Senior year, but did not do marching band, as it is unnecessary, and in fact, counter-productive, for getting into college music programs. For some reason, public school music teachers (at least the ones we know) are clueless about this conflict. My S knew that he would not be able juggle everything that everyone else has to do for college applications, be on the drumline for marching band, which at S’s school seems to have an even greater time commitment than other sections, and meanwhile, prepare both classical and jazz piano auditions and pre-screening recordings. </p>

<p>Further, S did not go to the band director for recommendations. The schools to which he applied required 1, 2, or 3 music teacher recommendations, but he has had so many teachers and directors as a result of having different teachers for jazz and classical piano, and being in multiple ensembles, jazz bands, orchestra, etc. that it was not a problem to come up with enough people for recommendations.</p>

7

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<p>While this is true, it is normally a requirement that is fairly easily waived if the student is pursuing private instruction, and other significant music activities outside of high school.</p>

8

<p>Ask yourself what this director provides that your son needs and cannot obtain elsewhere. If you cannot come up with a clear answer to that question yourself, ask your son. If neither of you can come up with a clear answer, ask the director. If they start talking about what your son provides that they need, remind them that was not what you asked about. If they cannot provide a clear answer or start making threats, it is probably time to walk away from the high school program because at the moment it is definitely hurting your son’s chances for acceptance to the better college programs.</p>

<p>If, at some point, you do come up with a clear answer to the original question, then you have to weigh that against the benefits to be gained elsewhere. Remember that admission to a music school is far more determined by individual achievement as demonstrated by audition and/or portfolio than it is by participation in a top youth orchestra or all-state group, let alone a high school marching band.</p>

9

<p>Where we live, most serious music students do not participate in marching band. It’s for students who like music, want fun, but are not planning on a serious music education in college. I realize this is geographic-specific. We have an intense academic environment here. There isn’t time to give one’s life over to marching band if one wants to also advance in music. Then also the music student must get some solo opportunities, youth symphony, competitions, summer camp/travel etc. experience. Those with better instruments can’t risk having them damaged in the rough and tumble of the basic HS band or orch program along with pep or marching band. I don’t know how it is for low brass, though.</p>

10

<p>At our HS if you want to be in the highest level concert band you have to march, too. Otherwise they kick you down a level. That is the only way they can get the best players marching and the awards to keep the school’s state recognition. Which BTW does more for the director than the kids. Not worth it if you are serious about the music. </p>

<p>It was the same essentially for voice. Chorus director was more concerned about her best students qulaifying for state level honors than what they needed to audition for college. If they did not cooperate with her plan they did not get any solos.</p>

11

<p>I guess we live in one of those rare school districts where students can be very successful in music (7 students in top conservatories in the last 4 years–4 were drum majors) and be in marching band. Marching Band has been a wonderful experience for S–it taught him time management and leadership skills. Not all band directors are as like the one portrayed in this thread. S has grown dramatically in the program. By 10th grade is was the top player in his section. Yet somehow, the staff managed to keep him challenged and engaged. He found time for honors band and district band. S was part of the 2010 US Army All American Marching Band – an EXCELLENT experience that cannot be replicated anywhere. S had very successful auditions and wonderful choices for college. </p>

<p>I cannot speak to anyone else’s experience, but we are incredibly grateful to the entire music staff in our district for all they have done to help S get where is his today. It is indeed possible to be a top level player and support the marching program in the school.</p>

12

<p>Man, now I feel bad I didn’t let him quit marching last year. Hopefully, he can articulate his reasons not to march in a constructive way.</p>

<p>And I agree with mom4989 that in general the whole band experience has been a very positive one, it wasn’t until this year as his music interests have broadened into composition (and piano) that schedule conflicts were becoming a big issue and I see that only getting worse in the Fall when he’s under the wire to get things submitted.</p>

13

<p>The marching band at our d’s high school is the base to concert and select bands in the school. In order to audition for the state festivals, you must be part of the school band. We were lucky. Our music director is behind the kids 100%. It was never an issue when she had to miss events due to other commitments. He encouraged them to perform in outside orchestras/bands and was proud of his students advancements. But he also had the students respect. D would do what she could to make marching band performances. Late Friday nights for games, early Saturdays to drive 1 1/2 hours to orchestra and then back to perform with the band…some weekends were a lot.<br>
I would say if the director is an “all or nothing” type of director…it would have to be nothing. It is a stressful enough year. There is no way my d could have made all of the marching band performances her senior year.</p>

14

<p>Ineedchocolate, I think you stated the obvious when you said your son was bored. Sounds like it is indeed time to quit. At our house we have lived with the “dirty little secret” of marching band for coming up on 4 years. Will it hurt D in the long run? (Big sigh)…maybe. But she has learned leadership skills, communication skills, and she has the amazing ability to bring people together. She is doing something fun that she will likely never do again, she is getting great exercise, and she has a social life. We could not deny her that. You’re only a kid once. But here is the difference….she loves it.</p>

15

<p>In defense of why some school music directors might make a big deal about marching band (other then being egotistical, etc, which some/many might be; my hs director was like something out of the Doonsbury comic strip in the late 70’s…), they might have a practical reason. In many school districts sports, especially football, is considered a big deal while music and art are often seen as ‘frills’, and generally are the first to feel the axe in tough times. </p>

<p>When I was in HS, the music director told me that one of the biggest defenders of the music budget on the board did so because he was a big football supporter and loved having a marching band at the games and such, but that if it wasn’t for that he probably wouldn’t give it a second glance. So in a sense they may be trying to find a way to justify their music program by doing that. However, in the end I think a student has to do what is best for them.</p>

<p>Kids in the pre college programs, for example, probably couldn’t do marching band in many places because football games are on Saturday afternoons (other places do Friday nights), plus many marching bands do competitions and such that would further take time from outside musical groups and such. </p>

<p>I don’t think anyone is saying students should drop marching band or that it doesn’t have any value, I think what they are saying is if it interferes with their path to entering music, that whatever value it brings probably is outweighed by what it costs the student. Plus if a student is bored, what is the point?</p>

16

<p>My daughter left band in senior year, and because band was required for other music classes, did not do music at school at all.</p>

<p>However, this was also the year she did 3 music classes Sat.'s at a conservatory, took private instrument lessons, took private composition and theory. It was great year of growth and happiness.</p>

<p>She did not need the credits to graduate, so the study halls came in handy so she could focus more on music outside of school.</p>

<p>I was surprised to read about the personalities and dynamics with band directors in other places. Our band director is a well-known problem, esp. for kids with talent. (My other kids got along fine with him, interestingly enough). He would not dare mess with our daughter though, because she had already dealt with issues with him and the principal was well aware, so the band director was cooperative. He also went along with our daughter when she won a state award, and took credit for something he had nothing to do with, which was fine with us. Peace is a nice thing.</p>

<p>Anyway, recommendations came from private teachers outside of school (plus the usual teacher and guidance counselor if needed). The band director wasn’t involved in her application at all.</p>

<p>It is a nice value to be useful and contribute to one’s school band, but at a certain point, when it interferes with a serious music student’s path and goals, it is time to quit!</p>

17

<p>It is sad, but true that many directors have to demand a lot from their students, knowing that the program is hanging on by a thread. We were blessed to have a very strong music program, highly thought of. Marching band of 250 students, two orchestras, concert band (separate from marching band) choirs, select choirs, select bands, chambers…ect. We even had football players and cheerleaders in the marching band! (doing the halftime field show in their uniforms!) So, my kids were lucky, and they know it. Lets hope there will always be passionate band directors striving to keep their program alive!</p>

18

<p>I know of a high school music director who told a jazz guitar student that a state high school band competition he needed him for was so important that he should blow off his audition at the Manhattan School of Music, which was on the same day! It was really only important to the nazi band director’s ego, of course. The kid quakingly said no (think he was worried that the director wouldn’t give him a good college recommendation) and the director apparently had so much clout that he managed to change the date of the competition. Now is a good time for your son to break free (diplomatically, of course) and focus on his own musical growth.</p>

19

<p>I think another poster hit it on the head when they brought up your point that your son was bored with marching band. I do not think a student will get much out of any ensemble that they are not enjoying especially in HS. I will echo the positive points that marching band offers music students. It gives them opportunities for learning leadership, teamwork, and also learning to play with musicians of all different talent levels. I assume your son is focused on being a performance major and not music education. Marching band will be required if he follows the education path. I don’t necessarily believe marching band will increase his skill level level but I do think it makes for a better rounded musician entering college. As you can probably tell my son enjoyed marching band. He also found time to be a section leader, make all county, all district and all state bands while participating in two University sponsored Wind Ensembles. He is a busy kid but there is time for marching band and other more serious Ensembles. It all comes down to interest and focus. If your son hates marching band I don’t feel he will benefit from staying with it unless he intends to pursue a music education path.</p>

20

<p>Is band a scheduled class at this school? If so, a private talk with the band director might result in a face-saving solution. Perhaps “scheduling conflicts” can keep your son out of band in the fall, but allow him to be in band in the spring.</p>