<p>@Philovitist and any other defender of Affirmative Action </p>
<p>Let’s say you are a WHITE MALE and apply to a very selective school with the following resume
-A perfect GPA
-Perfect ACT/SAT Scores
-Have taken every AP/Honors course available
-Perfect AP Scores
-Numerous Leadership positions (NHS, student council, Class President, etc.)
-Numerous ECs (a sport, volunteer work, Quiz Bowl, etc.)
-Extremely well written Essays
-Your counselors and teachers write that you are the absolute best student in your class, wonderful human being, etc. in their letter of recommendation</p>
<p>Someone from YOUR SAME HIGH SCHOOL also applies to that same college, but is a URM</p>
<p>His/Her resume is like
-Good GPA, but not close to yours (barely top 10% of class)
-Good Test Scores 27-30 ACT score
-Has taken some, but not of the AP/Honors course available
-Lacks perfect AP scores
-1 leadership position
-2 ECs
-Ok Essays
-Letters of rec that state he/she is a pretty good student </p>
<p>You get REJECTED and the other person gets ACCEPTED.</p>
<p>How would you feel?</p>
<p>Then you find out that he/she got accepted because of his or her URM status?</p>
<p>Now how would you feel?</p>
<p>Lastly, would you feel any different if the person who got accepted was a WHITE MALE instead of a URM?</p>
<p>Not using racial preferences isn’t even equivalent in effect to ignoring racism. By not using racial preferences, we can get at the real problems (e.g. disparities in education quality) instead of pretending that we’re solving “problems” by granting preferences to the children of well-to-do professionals who happen to be black or Hispanic.</p>
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<p>All due respect, you foster this mindset with your “correct” interpretation that “an academically successful African American is more rare than academically successful others.” This mindset comes about because people assign behaviors to racial classifications, and racial preferences worsen this practice.</p>
<p>You really think Oliver Brown would have walked his daughter to his neighborhood school if he thought attaining an education was “acting white”? You think Thurgood Marshall would have argued his case if he thought attaining an education was “acting white”? The messed up culture you speak of did not exist in your grandparents’ generation.</p>
<p>I’m not going to point fingers and say who’s to blame. All I’m saying is that we are farther from slavery and Jim Crow than your parents and grandparents were, and the culture got worse, not better. So you can’t blame slavery and Jim Crow for what happened.</p>
<p>Please elaborate on this. I don’t quite understand what you’re saying. It’s not clear to me that first- and second-generation Americans of African / Caribbean extraction would be shut out from elite universities in the absence of racial preferences. Also, you’re making one of my points for me; who is really “benefiting” from racial preferences, anyway? Is it students who are descended from slaves? Or is it students who perversely may have descended from Africans who enslaved other Africans and then sent them over to North America?</p>
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<p>I’m not a white guy. Yet I still oppose racial preferences.</p>
<p>Philovitist:
Common sense tells us that any attempt to solve a problem by ignoring it makes no sense at all. Imagine trying to eliminate the deadly consequences of lead poisoning by being blind to lead paint! If we want to create opportunities that are truly equal, we need to address the barriers to opportunity. Promoting equality and supporting affirmative action go hand in hand!</p>
<p>That comparison was an EPIC FAIL. Fighting lead poisoning and giving select people advantages based on their race/ethnicity are FAR from the same thing.</p>
<p>You’re also telling me that in order “to create opportunities that are truly equal” we need to give people advantages based on their race? How is that equal?</p>
<p>What is the problem of having an asian majority? Why white people have to be majority? I don’t understand if asians are more qualified, if they deserve, isn’t that fair?</p>
<p>The holding was narrow, which helped gain the concurrence of seven of the nine justices of the Supreme Court (Justice Kagan was recused in this case).</p>
<p>I’m a hobbyist in this area, not a professional, so the customary grains of salt are in order. My understanding is that the Supreme Court essentially said, “5th Circuit, redo the case consistent with this opinion.” The punchline is, quote, “The reviewing court must ultimately be satisfied that no workable race-neutral alternatives would produce the educational benefits of diversity.”</p>
<p>I think given the statements in the oral arguments, there do exist “workable race-neutral alternatives” that preclude the use of racial classification as an admissions factor.</p>
<p>A school has the right to include “diversity” as part of its mission.</p>
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<p>Just because “diversity” may be part of the school’s mission, doesn’t mean the school can use “race” in the admission process as a first resort. It has to exhaust all “race-neutral alternatives” before resorting to “race”.</p>
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<p>The lower court didn’t do its job in applying the existing law and made a bad assumption that the school was also applying the law, i.e., exhausting “race-neutral alternatives” first. So the lower court gets an ‘incomplete’ and has to do it all over again.</p>
<p>The main problem is that diversity initiatives negate objective admissions criteria and ultimately steer toward a return of race-based decisions. As an AA, I see the inherent dangers to this even though I could benefit under the current interpretation. </p>
<p>Allowing diversity to be a major factor in admissions could undermine the equal protection clause under the 14th Amendment. I know a lot of people support diversity efforts but they are a form discrimination. Affirmative action was much more acceptable legally though far less tolerated socially because it was instituted to remedy historical abuses by opening doors that were deliberately kept shut to AAs. Diversity is becoming an end to itself which is not unlike any other form of racial discrimination.</p>
<p>You don’t need to mix a bunch of people with different races in order to achieve diversity.</p>
<p>I have a diverse list of friends with a variety of interests, personalities, strengths, weaknesses, physical characteristics, religious beliefs, political beliefs, etc.</p>
<p>I didn’t pick my friends by looking for people of a certain race/ethnicity. I’m friends with these individuals because they are kind people that I share common ground with.</p>
<p>Ooops, I missed the line that the kid in post #7 in my last post is accepted to Cornell! It is an Ivy League university and it is extremely well recognized in Asia. Since the kid is an Asian he should be delighted that the result is great for his case, but I also understand his disappointment and disbelief for so many rejections. </p>
<p>Still, the adcom have too much power and Affirmative Action is racial discrimination.</p>
<p>@findmoreinfo, you must not have read #7 very well. The person sounds terribly neurotic and beat up on himself so terribly and unjustifiably so.</p>
<p>There are reasons why “perfect” applicants get rejected. Read it again. He has a 3.96 GPA and calls himself stupid. He has nearly perfect test scores and says he needs to work 20 times harder. He compares himself to Ghandi and Malcolm X. It’s awfully neurotic that he gets into Cornell and says he’ll probably go to a state school.</p>
<p>Don’t think interviewers didn’t pick up on that personality flaw.</p>
<p>I’d feel fine. The fact of the matter is that the white guy doesn’t necessarily bring as much to the table as the black guy in terms of achieving the school’s educational mission. You’re trying to fit a schema of merit on an issue that isn’t about merit. It’s about the university doing its best to make a difference in the world.</p>
<p>We are human and we have emotions. I found in sports (i.e. tennis) people love the ones with emotions and classify those who are extremely calm as cold or robotic. (ironically I read enough persons said that top schools don’t like high test score ‘robots’… ) With that kid’s credential in clubs and charitable organizations, I don’t think I can say he has too many personality flaws, he is a kid who had been rejected from ‘many’ schools he applied and he was expressing his sadness. (The problem is that: he was compared with other Asians, not the whole pool.)</p>
<p>Give the kid a break. He deserves some rest for the summer before he goes to college.</p>
<p>That post #7 seems so bizarre I’m seriously wondering if it’s legit. :/</p>
<p>If it is sincere, then it should be really obvious that there’s something off. You focus so much on stats when the real reason he’s been unlucky is right in front of you. :S</p>