"Race" in College Admission FAQ & Discussion 10

<p>While I think affirmative action should end when an unhindered admissions process would lead to a mirroring of the country, I don’t like the idea of making it the quota. Instead I believe that, whenever applicable, a preference (plus) should be given to URMs found to be qualified for the spot being competed for, the magnitude of which should be continually tweaked in hindsight to produce that effect.</p>

<p>In other words, if you’re comparing two people with similar stats, you would use race as one of your reasons to choose one dude over another.</p>

<p>Because the groups targeted by affirmative action don’t have the stats that non-URMs have (due to the very reasons they are being targetted by affirmative action), this likely won’t lead to over-representation of the under-represented. If it does, then next time around you diminish the effect of AA on college admissions, repeating this again and again until AA basically fades away.</p>

<p>This, alternatively, could lead to continued underrepresentation, but I’m not sure that a more assertive affirmative action policy would actually be more reasonable.</p>

<p>Under this system, AA would be weaker at schools for a given group of URMs with a lot of qualified URM applicants of that group, and vice versa. This would explain why AA is stronger for African Americans than Hispanics, and for Hispanics than for Asians.</p>

<p>Very interesting article:</p>

<p>[How</a> College Turned Me Into an Indian](<a href=“http://www.mindingthecampus.com/originals/2013/06/how_our_colleges_invent_divers.html]How”>http://www.mindingthecampus.com/originals/2013/06/how_our_colleges_invent_divers.html)</p>

<p>As a student who identified as Hispanic on the Common App and as a student heading to Yale this fall, I can safely say that I will add more cultural diversity to the campus than someone who is white or Asian.</p>

<p>I fill an institutional need. Why attack the institution for fulfilling their diversity goals?</p>

<p>“As a student who identified as Hispanic on the Common App and as a student heading to Yale this fall, I can safely say that I will add more cultural diversity to the campus than someone who is white or Asian.”</p>

<p>There’s a lot more to cultural diversity than just ethnicity/race.</p>

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<p>Actually, no you can’t. It’s this kind of blanket statement, from either side, that fuels misunderstanding and negativity in AA discussions.</p>

<p>[From the parent of a Latina that graduated from Y]</p>

<p>@Floccinauci</p>

<p>Latino and white are not mutually exclusive. Do you consider yourself Native American or black? If not than you are white. Many forms say White, Non Hispanic on them which implies that Hispanics are considered white.</p>

<p>What I disagree with is having my tax dollars go to a state university that uses race as an admission factor. Aren’t we supposed to be anti-racists? If so then race should play no part in the admissions process. As long as it is used then racism exists.</p>

<p>@[url="&lt;a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/16072741-post748.html"]#748"[/url"&gt;http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/16072741-post748.html"]#748”[/url</a>] and future college students agonizing over self-identifying.</p>

<p>There is a is a [url="&lt;a href="http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/07/100709083751.htm"]chicken-to-the-egg[/url"&gt;http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/07/100709083751.htm"]chicken-to-the-egg[/url</a>] for all the angst society puts itself through. </p>

<p>If we’re “supposed to be anti-racists” that sentiment should not be limited to college admissions. ‘Segregation’ starts at the genetic level when individuals choose to marry/have children with another using ‘race’ as a filtering mechanism.</p>

<p>Those advocating ‘anti-racists’ policy/values should reflect on this dynamic as well…in the spirit of consistency.</p>

<p>It is fine if one believes that the racial composition of student bodies of elite institutions should mirror that of the country, but why shouldn’t the SES composition mirror that of the country as well? Certainly those of low SES are discriminated against and always have been discriminated against. And today we find that the discrepancy between the proportion of low SES students in elite institutions and in the country at large is far greater than the discrepancy for any race.</p>

<p>White people and Asian people who do well aren’t as interesting as URMs who do well.</p>

<p>JWS: can you elaborate on that pretty broad gross generalization ? What are you trying to say? In what context is your statement valid?</p>

<p>Or is this just another of your flaming doozies that you drop onto various threads?</p>

<p>Statistically speaking, it’s true, if you interpret it the right way.</p>

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<p>Wrooong.</p>

<p>This is a common rationale of anti-AAs, but it 1) misunderstands what racism is, 2) presumes that ignoring racism will somehow end it, instead of vice versa, and 3) avoids considering the actual function of AA.</p>

<p>Common sense tells us that any attempt to solve a problem by ignoring it makes no sense at all. Imagine trying to eliminate the deadly consequences of lead poisoning by being blind to lead paint! If we want to create opportunities that are truly equal, we need to address the barriers to opportunity. Promoting equality and supporting affirmative action go hand in hand!</p>

<p>/ACLU</p>

<p>That is so totally wrong. You keep it alive by that thinking.</p>

<p>If you think that counts as a rebuttal, let alone a convincing rebuttal, you’ve got another thing coming. <3</p>

<p>(@#739)
Right now, Hispanics represent 40% of college-age Texans [African-Americans around 13%]. They comprise about 30% of undergrads at 4-year Texan colleges [11%], but only around 16% of students at the ‘finer’ Texan establishments (e.g. in PR’s ‘Top 377’) [5%]. </p>

<p>I can’t presume to direct the mission or admissions criteria of private universities, but as a tax-payer in Texas I would like to see the publics make (even) more of an effort - in conjunction with public education policy - to bring URMs with academic potential into the better universities, where they will be (statistically) more likely to graduate and more likely to achieve that potential.</p>

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<p>And what is this “right” interpretation?</p>

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<p>You mistakenly assume that not using racial preferences means “ignoring racism.” That is not the case. What racism are we talking about anyway? Mind you, I’m not saying there is no racism in 2013. I’m asking you for examples of racism that plague high school students aspiring to attend selective private universities that practice racial preferences.</p>

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<p>An academically successful African American is more rare than academically successful others. It’s like you’re fishing in Hoenn and catch a Feebas instead of just a Magikarp. The former is much more of a big deal. ^_^</p>

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<p>Since he used less effective approaches to do it, Herbert Hoover didn’t exactly ignore the Great Depression by not using active government intervention. The effect, though, was equivalent. </p>

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<p>I’d like to use examples from my own life. Because of my race, I was continually pressured by parents, other family and friends throughout my youth to not study or read books and instead focus my attention on basketball and other idols of black culture. No tiger parents in my midst, no. I got teased by people who looked like me and were declared to be on my side rather than encouraged, respected or simply let-be for doing well in school and ‘acting white’. I didn’t have access to the same information that gets thrown by associates to students in more richly informed and so socially aware social circles that my being black created a barrier to entering. </p>

<p>There are so few black role models in politics, business and science compared to those present in the much more represented entertainment and sports. This might seem like small change to you — why not have a role model in a different race? But part of what makes a role model so inspiring is his/her ability to evoke the idea in a young person that, “Someone like me can do that; I can, too”. Petty things like these don’t have as much influence when we are teens or adults who think for themselves, but as children, we are incredibly influenced by the role models available to us and the culture our friends and family instills in us. </p>

<p>Because of slavery, and then black codes, and then Jim Crow laws, and then simple stereotype-driven social estrangement, because of centuries without access to education, a cultural heritage not marred by servitude or even sufficient economic resources, my culture is screwed up, man. I can only wonder how many intelligent black young people have given up or ignored their potential to be great because of the social and cultural capital that they were endowed with, that White America has, until recently and still occasionally, been actively, purposefully working to corrode.</p>

<p>African americans aren’t limping behind because of their own foibles, as the phenomenon of first-gen african immigrants taking advantage of their preferences indicates. If you can explain without reference to racism why only affirmative action enables them to even near proportional representation in our colleges, seeing you do so would profoundly affect my attitude about affirmative action.</p>

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<p>The argument that affirmative action is “unfair” suggests that without such programs, everyone, including women and people of color, would be treated equally. Not even the most optimistic – or misguided – observer of our nation’s history or contemporary society could make that claim in good faith.</p>

<p>The National Urban Institute recently sent equally qualified pairs of job applicants on a series of interviews for entry-level jobs. The young men were coached to display similar levels of enthusiasm and “articulateness.” The young white men received 45% more job offers than their African American co-testers; whites were offered the job 52% more often than Latino “applicants.”</p>

<p>Another recent study showed that job applicants with “white-sounding names” were twice as likely to be called back for interviews as applicants with “black-sounding names” who had the same qualifications. Another study found that a white job applicant with a criminal record was more likely to receive a second interview than a similarly qualified African American applicant with no criminal record. </p>

<p>More basically, since whites define our society’s standards of beauty (see okcupid’s races and dating study, Morrison’s The Bluest Eye, wherever), they reap the profound benefits of being the “most beautiful” race. You may not know the profound advantages that come with beauty beyond the dating scene as a result of the halo effect, but I’m getting bored with this post and you can google it. </p>

<p>Another website, Implicit.harvard.edu will provide you an online test to expose your implicit bias against blacks and for whites or/and report to you its finding that most Americans of all races have this bias. Once you finish with the test you can try to argue to me that this doesn’t lead to behavior racially preferential toward whites. I’ll be waiting.</p>

<p>White guys love to play the victim. But in reality, they’ll always have their racial preferences.</p>