<p>The alternative to affirmative action is to assume that kids can be numerically quantified and ranked thus equality is statistically achieved. </p>
<p>The only real way I can conceive of an affirmative action free admissions process is to remove race and gender from the admissions equation. Remove names too to make it harder to infer. Just show stats and ECs. Put them through one round, then go to another round where essay are read. Then put the whole package together to make the decisions based on who is left.</p>
<p>I strongly disagree and dislike this statement, which I see expressed all the time from those who support racial preferences. You are implicitly stating that admissions either considers racial classification or is numbers only. That is a false choice because your options aren’t exhaustive. You understand this at some level, even though you said it anyway, because your next paragraph makes references to extracurriculars and essays as parts of “the whole package.”</p>
<p>Whenever similarly situ- ated blacks and whites are treated differently in housing and lending markets—whether in locating suitable housing, being steered toward particular neighborhoods, or applying for and receiving mortgage loans (Massey, 2007: 76–84)—then race matters. When blacks without a crimi- nal record are called back for job interviews at lower rates than otherwise comparable whites who have a conviction for a nonviolent drug offense (Pager, 2003), then race matters. And when racial profiling is used to stop, question, and search blacks more often than whites, or when pe- remptory challenges are used to exclude potential black jurors more fre- quently than whites (Kennedy, 2001), then race matters</p>
Since when is being made to leap over a higher bar “getting a free ride”? </p>
<p>What data do u have to support the assertion that Asian acceptance rates are high? For every hundred black kids, every hundred hispanic kids, every hundred white kids, and every hundred asian kids who apply to a selective university, what percentage of the kids in each racial group is admitted as a percentage of that racial pool?</p>
<p>Here’s the deal. It’s not going to get any easier for Asians because more races are striving for the Ivy leagues. Frankly Asians have had a bit of a free ride because other races have been content with the non elite schools (WHICH IS WHY ASIAN ACCEPTANCE RATES ARE SO HIGH), but that is changing. One should consider what would happen if all the top white candidates chose to apply to the Ivy league/like Ivy schools. The elite schools would be overwhelmed, forcing it to slash Asian acceptance rates. It hasn’t happened yet, but it is beginning to happen. </p>
<p>BTW, college acceptance is not a black or white thing (I don’t mean race) A GPA of .20 points higher with a SAT 100 points higher does not make one a better candidate. That goes for all races but for some reasons Asians don’t get that it’s not just a numerical calculation thing.</p>
<p>I don’t think you have any evidence to back your claim that “other races have been content with the non elite schools.” And your paragraph suggests a belief that historically, “Ivy league/like Ivy schools” were not highly sought after by “top white candidates,” which is complete nonsense.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Why does holistic admissions require the consideration of racial classification? Amazing how</p>
<ol>
<li>GPA + SAT + racial classification</li>
</ol>
<p>is considered “holistic” by racial preference defenders while</p>
<p>It’s true that the choice of admissions isn’t limited to stats only versus race only policies.</p>
<p>But that is what proponents of either side for and against AA want to see weighed most heavily in admissions decisions. Some want the stats to trump other considerations and some want race to trump stats.</p>
<p>People aren’t fighting over which ECs should and should not be considered.</p>
<p>The bottomline is that a state school should be race neutral otherwise you get govt discrimination against some group. But that doesn’t limit a school to a numbers/stats only approach.</p>
<p>Private schools are private and should be able to do what they want. But they want that govt money too so I guess they should be race neutral in their policies. Govt funded discrimination, which happened for a couple hundred years against most minorities, is always wrong.</p>
<p>For the elite schools, the fact that Asian are an over represented minority is the direct proof that other races do not flood the them with applications like Asians do. There can be no other explanation, considering the small Asian population in relation to he overall population, especially under the consideration of a holistic admissions system. </p>
<p>Also, the phrase sought after has so many degrees that it’s nonsense that you point it out. If this helps understanding the concept, please use it. Non-Asians really, really want to got to elite schools. Asians really, really, really, want to go to elite schools.</p>
<p>BTW I don’t care that Asians have high acceptance rates, I do care that they seem to resent minority candidates. (Elite schools only).</p>
<p>Consider it a two sided coin. On one side because of a lack of dispersion, it is harder for an Asian because the internal competition is so great. BTW, the school is not setting the bar, Asians are setting it higher and higher against each other.</p>
<p>On the second side is a relief valve, other races (as a whole do not care as much) about the elite schools. Morehead is just fine, U, Miami is just fine, Boise St is just fine. BYU is just fine!! Because they don’t, they don’t apply as much, allowing the colleges to award a lot of seats to deserving Asian students, creating the ORM minority status.</p>
<p>So is it harder Asians. Overall the answer is no!</p>
<p>Sosomenza’s out-of-line comment:
“By the way according to SAT-2012 data- 2% of blacks or 4500 students (enough to fill the entire Ivy of black acceptances, twice over, have an SAT of at least 2100 (OR Higher). Since the population is twice over it is likely that the IVY league takes the cream of kids who are scoring in the 2200+ range. If the cream is not applying to the IVY leagues and it might be possible, then Asians should consider it a free ride compliments of Blacks and thank them for the seats that they are giving up.”</p>
<p>4500 black students scored over 2100? Truth reveals otherwise!! </p>
<p>“Princeton sociologist Thomas J. Espenshade and his colleagues have demonstrated that among undergraduates at highly selective schools such as the Ivy League, white students have mean scores 310 points higher on the 1600 SAT scale than their black classmates, but Asian students average 140 points above whites.”</p>
<p>First u argue that asian applicants have a high acceptance rate. Then u say asian applicants flood admissions, out of proportion of their numbers in the overall population. </p>
<p>In calculating acceptance RATE, a higher number of applicants increases the DENOMINATOR, thereby decreasing the NUMERATOR. The result is that the acceptance rate is decreased. </p>
<p>But ignoring this lack of fundamental grasp of mathematics, do u have insider intelligence on the number of applicants by race?</p>
<p>“For the elite schools, the fact that Asian are an over represented minority is the direct proof that other races do not flood the them with applications like Asians do.”</p>
<p>Not so. When there are more QUALIFIED students, there are surely more of them apply. When there are more Asian students qualified, certainly more Asians would apply. Why so surprise about it?</p>
<p>“BTW, the school is not setting the bar, Asians are setting it higher and higher against each other.”</p>
<p>And why should schools compare Asians to Asians instead of compare them to the whole pool? Affirmative Action to benefit blacks but to oppress Asians who are also minorities? Guess what? We will fight, until AA is done, then you will not get free rides.</p>
<p>"The assistant director’s words — look for “evidence a student can succeed at Berkeley” — echoed in my ears when I wanted to give a disadvantaged applicant a leg up in the world. I wanted to help. Surely, if these students got to Berkeley they would be exposed to all sorts of test-taking and studying techniques. </p>
<p>But would they be able to compete with the engineering applicant with the 3.95 G.P.A. and 2300 SATs? Does Berkeley have sufficient support services to bridge gaps and ensure success? Could this student with a story full of stressors and remedial-level writing skills survive in a college writing course? </p>
<p>I wanted every freshman walking through Sather Gate to succeed. </p>
<p>Underrepresented minorities still lag behind: about 92 percent of whites and Asians at Berkeley graduate within six years, compared with 81 percent of Hispanics and 71 percent of blacks. A study of the University of California system shows that 17 percent of underrepresented minority students who express interest in the sciences graduate with a science degree within five years, compared with 31 percent of white students. </p>
<p>When the invitation came to sign up for the next application cycle, I wavered. My job as an application reader — evaluating the potential success of so many hopeful students — had been one of the most serious endeavors of my academic career. But the opaque and secretive nature of the process had made me queasy. Wouldn’t better disclosure of how decisions are made help families better position their children? Does Proposition 209 serve merely to push race underground? Can the playing field of admissions ever be level? </p>
<p>For me, the process presented simply too many moral dilemmas. In the end, I chose not to participate again. </p>
<p>You anger, considering that Asians are an ORM is down right scary. BTW Asians as a group do get compared to the whole pool. If not they wouldn’t be an ORM?</p>