"Race" in College Admission FAQ & Discussion 10

[sosomenza]

<p>

Not so. When there are more QUALIFIED students, there are surely more of them apply. When there are more Asian students qualified, certainly more Asians would apply. Why so surprise about it?

</p>

<p>That’s the whole point. A 100 points better on the SAT and .20+ GPA does not make you a better candidate. The schools look for people who can change the world. Such qualities are not a pure math equation. A lot of it will based on a guess as to interpersonal, communication and leadership skills.</p>

[sosomenza]

<p>

In calculating acceptance RATE, a higher number of applicants increases the DENOMINATOR, thereby decreasing the NUMERATOR. The result is that the acceptance rate is decreased.

</p>

<p>Yes, so why has Asian acceptance rates ballooned (increased)? Answer-They have been applying at a higher rate of increase than the other races. Also keep the insults to yourself.</p>

[sosomenza]

<p>For the elite schools, Asians can’t have it both ways. They can’t be an ORM and claim blatant discrimination. The population of high school students is too large and the number of seats being competed for is too small. IT smacks of a conceit to believe that 85% of the population isn’t as smart as a mere 15%.</p>

[sosomenza]

<p>I suspect special interest fundraising is at play here, publishing old studies, revealing one sided half truths about Asian discrimination. I would hope that everyone considers all sides of the argument, and if people are asking for donations then consider it nothing but a sales tool to relieve you of your hard earned money.</p>

[GMTplus7]

<p>@soso,
At UCLA which is supposed to be admitting race-blind, as per Prop 209, for applicants w the same HOLISTIC score, blacks & hispanics have a higher admit rate than whites & asians
<a href=“http://dailybruin.com/2012/10/23/findings-by-law-professor-suggest-that-ucla-admissions-may-be-violating-prop-209/[/url]”>http://dailybruin.com/2012/10/23/findings-by-law-professor-suggest-that-ucla-admissions-may-be-violating-prop-209/&lt;/a&gt;

For his report, Sander analyzed six years of admissions data, obtained from<em>UCLA</em>through a public records request, that was grouped into pre-holistic and post-holistic process numbers. The data was comprised of one group of admissions numbers between 2004 and 2006 before the holistic process was implemented, and another group of numbers between 2007 and 2009, Sander said.</p>

<p>According to Sander’s analysis, there is a much higher percentage of black and Hispanic students who are offered admissions than Caucasian and Asian students, among students who are assigned the same “mid-range” holistic score.

</p>

<p>Similar conclusion for Duke applicants, where white & asian applicants w both higher holistic score & academic score were admitted at a lower rate:
<a href=“Google Scholar”>Google Scholar;

[fabrizio]

<p>

For the elite schools, the fact that Asian are an over represented minority is the direct proof that other races do not flood the them with applications like Asians do. There can be no other explanation, considering the small Asian population in relation to he overall population, especially under the consideration of a holistic admissions system.</p>

<p>Also, the phrase sought after has so many degrees that it’s nonsense that you point it out. If this helps understanding the concept, please use it. Non-Asians really, really want to got to elite schools. Asians really, really, really, want to go to elite schools.</p>

<p>BTW I don’t care that Asians have high acceptance rates, I do care that they seem to resent minority candidates. (Elite schools only).

</p>

<p>Asians’ being “overrepresented” (whatever that means) in no way serves as “direct proof” that students of other racial classifications do not “flood” elite universities with applications or are otherwise “content” with non-elite schools. You don’t know the proportion of applicants that apply to elite universities relative to all applicants, grouped by racial classification. Absent such basic descriptive statistics, which still don’t present the complete picture, the only thing that leads you to conclude that Asians desire admission to elite schools more so than non-Asians is your feelings.</p>

<p>What evidence do you have that Asians “seem to resent minority candidates”? None, of course. It’s just your prejudice.</p>

[fabrizio]

<p>

That’s the whole point. A 100 points better on the SAT and .20+ GPA does not make you a better candidate. The schools look for people who can change the world. Such qualities are not a pure math equation. A lot of it will based on a guess as to interpersonal, communication and leadership skills.

</p>

<p>And racial classification is relevant to interpersonal, communication and leadership skills…how? Data on these soft factors is very hard to come by, but [at</a> least for two years at Duke in the early 2000’s](<a href=“http://www.insidehighered.com/news/2009/04/20/mismatch]at”>http://www.insidehighered.com/news/2009/04/20/mismatch), Asians on average were actually rated higher than whites on essays and recommendations and only slightly below whites on “personal qualities.” If you want to claim that Hispanics and blacks do better than Asians on these soft factors, you might want to think again.</p>

<p>

For the elite schools, Asians can’t have it both ways. They can’t be an ORM and claim blatant discrimination. The population of high school students is too large and the number of seats being competed for is too small. IT smacks of a conceit to believe that 85% of the population isn’t as smart as a mere 15%.

</p>

<p>So you want to claim that Jewish students were not discriminated against at Harvard et al. in the 1920s and 1930s? Good luck with that.</p>

[sosomenza]

<p>

What evidence do you have that Asians “seem to resent minority candidates”? None, of course. It’s just your prejudice.

</p>

<p>Ha! check with the moderator, I’ve received hate messages that defy description. That is my proof. Just read the posts on CC. The resentment is astounding especially considering that it’s from other minorities. That is my proof. You’re playing word games. I advise against it.</p>

[fabrizio]

<p>

Ha! check with the moderator, I’ve received hate messages that defy description. That is my proof. Just read the posts on CC. The resentment is astounding especially considering that it’s from other minorities. That is my proof. You’re playing word games. I advise against it.

</p>

<p>Great proof. Not. You might want to look in the mirror before you go about claiming that Asians resent blacks and Hispanics. Matthew 7:1-5 is quite applicable here, and I’m an atheist.</p>

<p>And you might want to learn how to construct better arguments before “advising against” my picking your arguments apart.</p>

[sosomenza]

<p>Fabrizio: It is great proof because it is in writing and available from an independent third party by someone with known IP/Address. That’s as good as proof will ever get. Again stay away from the word games. BTW I’m still thinking about filing charges against this individual. It is against the law to threaten someone over the internet.</p>

[sosomenza]

<p>

So you want to claim that Jewish students were not discriminated against at Harvard et al. in the 1920s and 1930s? Good luck with that

</p>

<p>No, again you’re wrong. I’ve never claimed or insinuated that. Stop with the word games. BTW are you trying to compare Jews in the 1930’s to Asians in the 21ST century? Good luck with that one. Do you even know what discrimination means?</p>

[notmeantforivy]

<p>Why so serious people? Relax and drink some soda or something.</p>

[sosomenza]

<p>How many Asian kids are leaving for college pre programmed with this resentment mentality? Elite Colleges are trying to build classes with people who can accept diversity not with those who resent it! Who is propagating these anti-help other minority beliefs?</p>

[fabrizio]

<p>

Fabrizio: It is great proof because it is in writing and available from an independent third party by someone with known IP/Address. That’s as good as proof will ever get. Again stay away from the word games. BTW I’m still thinking about filing charges against this individual. It is against the law to threaten someone over the internet.

</p>

<p>It’s only proof of how you can easily fault others while being blind to your own faults. You are the one claiming that Asians “flood the [elite schools] with applications.” You are the one claiming that Asians “resent minority candidates.” You are the one claiming that “Asians are an ORM is down right scary.” You are the one insinuating that Asians do not rank highly on “interpersonal, communication and leadership skills.” YOu are the one asserting that people who disagree with you post on behalf of “special interest fundraising.”</p>

<p>There’s a ton of psychological projection on your part against Asians, which you attribute to them and not yourself.</p>

[fabrizio]

<p>

I’ve never claimed or insinuated that.

</p>

<p>Oh, but you have. You said, quote, “For the elite schools, Asians can’t have it both ways. They can’t be an ORM and claim blatant discrimination.” If you now want to claim that that statement applies only to Asians, and not Jews, why does it apply only to Asians?</p>

<p>

How many Asian kids are leaving for college pre programmed with this resentment mentality? Elite Colleges are trying to build classes with people who can accept diversity not with those who resent it! Who is propagating these anti-help other minority beliefs?

</p>

<p>What resentment mentality? You mean how your posts clearly betray a resentment against Asians? And what’s “accepting[ing] diversity”? You mean a campus that’s mostly white, not too Asian, and just enough black and Hispanic so people like you don’t whine about being “underrepresented”?</p>

<p>As for “help other minorities,” puh-leese. [For</a> those two years at Duke](<a href=“http://www.insidehighered.com/news/2009/04/20/mismatch]For”>http://www.insidehighered.com/news/2009/04/20/mismatch), Hispanic students on average came from households with incomes very similar to those of the Asian students. In fact, overall, [Hispanics</a>’ average family incomes actually exceeded those of Asians’](<a href=“http://www.dukechronicle.com/articles/2010/03/31/duke-draws-rich-kids-all-colors]Hispanics”>http://www.dukechronicle.com/articles/2010/03/31/duke-draws-rich-kids-all-colors).</p>

<p>Racial preferences to “help minorities” is the biggest sham argument out there, even worse than the “diversity” BS. The students who actually make use of the preferences largely come from households that are at minimum middle class.</p>

[sosomenza]

<p>

It’s only proof of how you can easily fault others while being blind to your own faults. You are the one claiming that Asians “flood the [elite schools] with applications.” You are the one claiming that Asians “resent minority candidates.” You are the one claiming that “Asians are an ORM is down right scary.” You are the one insinuating that Asians do not rank highly on “interpersonal, communication and leadership skills.” You are the one asserting that people who disagree with you post on behalf of “special interest fundraising.”

</p>

<p>The argument was one of proof of Asian hostility towards me. It that argument over? You continue to play your game of words, changing it to my being hostile to Asians. If you have proof then post it?</p>

[sosomenza]

<p>

Racial preferences to “help minorities” is the biggest sham argument out there, even worse than the “diversity” BS. The students who actually make use of the preferences largely come from households that are at minimum middle class.

</p>

<p>You asked for proof of hostility towards minorities. ^ There it is. BTW I challenge you to prove this statement. It is blatantly false. I know because most middle class+ Hispanics don’t need the a preference. Their stats are just fine.</p>

[fabrizio]

<p>

The argument was one of proof of Asian hostility towards me. It that argument over? You continue to play your game of words, changing it to my being hostile to Asians. If you have proof then post it?

</p>

<p>Already did. I gave several examples in post #834.</p>

<p>

You asked for proof of hostility towards minorities. ^ There it is.

</p>

<p>Uh huh, pointing out that “helping minorities” is a sham argument is “hostility towards minorities.” Riiiight.</p>

<p>In response to your edit,</p>

<p>

BTW I challenge you to prove this statement. It is blatantly false. I know because most middle class+ Hispanics don’t need the a preference. Their stats are just fine.

</p>

<p>When I say “make use of the preferences,” I am referring to the so-called “underrepresented” minorities who are admitted to and attend elite universities. They indeed may not need the preferences, but they get them anyway.</p>

<p>The ones who don’t get the preferences and thus didn’t make use of them are the ones who didn’t apply to the elites. They’re the ones you have in mind when you speak platitudes about “helping minorities,” but they’re not the ones who are actually helped. The ones who are helped are the ones who don’t even need the help.</p>

[sosomenza]

<p>By Fabrizio-

While it sounds great (if un-Constitutional, see Bakke) that on paper, blacks receive racial preferences because of “Slavery, Black Codes, Sharecropping, etc.,” in reality, Americans who have no ancestors hurt by any of those stains of our history are disproportionately benefitting from these preferences. In fact, perversely, some of these Americans may be descended from Africans who enslaved other Africans and sent them to North America. So you have to ask yourself, is the policy you’re defending really achieving its “intended” purposes?

</p>

<p>^^Okay how about more resentment! The true colors of a person will always show in the end.</p>

[fabrizio]

<p>Hmm, pointing out that first- and second-generation black Americans disproportionately benefit from racial preferences, even though they have little connection to American slavery, Jim Crow, and so forth (other than through a potential perverse connection), is “resentment.” I don’t think you know what the word “resentment” means.</p>