"Race" in College Admission FAQ & Discussion 11

Applying to College
221

<p>When my kids were applying to colleges, they only visited CA and NE schools. My kids came away not wanting to be at a campus with a large percentage of Asian, so CA schools were out. H was not too keen with southern schools. Both of them ended up at a large U in the NE with a lot of diversity. It was the first place where they saw a lot of Asian kids. </p>

<p>At first D1 thought there would be a lot of affinity with Chinese students in her dorm, but she was surprised that a lot them didn’t want to be friends with her. The international students and first generation immigrants stuck to themselves. They spoke their native language and they ate their ethnic food together. Even second or third generation students who lived in Chinatown most of their live didn’t want to have much to do my kids. After few attempts in trying to be friendly, my kids did give up. I told them that there is no need to be friends with someone just because of their skin color and they shouldn’t feel bad.</p>

222

<p>Any of us can color our answers with whatever we thinks works best, arg- if you think goofing is normal and would advise your kid that way, fine for you. I would suggest you watch the message there, as it could be encouraging just what OP’s D takes offense at. That’s part of what this thread is about. Fine for you, fine in some communities or tolerable by some easy going folks-- is not working for this girl.</p>

<p>I like the posts that say, if this is the wrong place for her, it is her right to find a better place.</p>

<p>At the same time, the inquiring minds are also making the point that it’s good to dig a bit beneath the surface and see if (IF) there could be more to this. We do the best we can, as parents.</p>

223

<p>What world do you live in where kids dont make fun of teachers? RateMyProfessors is based on it</p>

224

<p>Penny-no, it was one of the STUDENTS who called D mentally unstable after she reported him for racist remarks. The counselor and principal were right on top of the problem. Sadly, some of the parents actually excused and back up their kids, so in the end we made the decision to leave. D has told me in the years since that there was a lot she never even told us since she thought we’d worked so hard to get her into the program (SHE did all the work, but you know, 10 year old minds…). Anyway, for us, leaving the setting was the best thing we could have done.</p>

225

<p>^^There we have it. ? Some kids make fun of profs so that makes it a baseline other kids should accept? Too easy to shoot down. Lots of people make fun of certain other people, so go with it? </p>

<p>And that’s why I asked how much all this is about D’s sensitivity to what (unfairness) goes on around her versus whether it has become personally intimidating. But still, if this is not the right place for her, it is not the right place. No matter what anecdotes or generalities we can cite.</p>

<p>None of this is easy. My D1 experienced overt and subtle biases, from majority and minority groups- and had one worse incident. In college. In the NE. At a liberal and diverse school. The fact that she emotionally, mentally and intellectually moved on from it doesn’t tell others how to handle their children’s situations.</p>

226

<p>Sadly, kids learn this stuff from the adults in their lives. Sseamom, I’m glad your daughter went to a better place. Also a reason why I suggested looking beyond the surface was not to doubt the OP s word but to make sure a much as possible (and we can only do the best we can ) that the transfer is successful. I would recommend that to most students who are unhappy where they are for any reason as the transfer involves a loss to some extent and unhappiness, even when transferring is the right decision .</p>

227

<p>

</p>

<p>I’m sorry for your kids’ experiences. However, not all Asian international, immigrant students, or those who grew up in various -towns are necessarily exclusionary or cliquish. </p>

<p>Just saying as that wasn’t my experience/observation in college and life in general.</p>

<p>And I say this as someone who despite being a first-generation American, don’t really fit in well on the surface with fresh immigrants/first-generations nor the completely assimilated first-generation American and later for different reasons*. I certainly don’t fit in with the -town kids considering I grew up in what was a mostly working-class White/Hispanic NYC neighborhood. </p>

<p>However, if they’re not cliquish jerks, friendships were never a problem. Granted, my near-fluency in spoken Mandarin and knowledge of the history/society did help establish some rapport with Chinese international students/immigrants. </p>

<p>Then again, I haven’t had an issue making friends with anyone who was friendly, had some interests in common, fun to be around, and not a jerk. </p>

<ul>
<li>One issue many newly arrived immigrants/American-born Asian-Americans who opt not to be completely assimilated and I’ve had with some completely assimilated first-generation or later Asian-Americans is the seeming need to uncritically denigrate everything associated with their parents/ancestral origins/culture and simultaneously uncritically praise everything “American”(read Upper/upper-middle class White suburban culture). This includes denigrating newly arrived immigrants and American-born Asians who opt to maintain some/most cultural traditions such as speaking the Asian-language concerned at home or showing interest in history/culture as “FOBs”.</li>
</ul>

228

<p>@ Oldfort in Post No. 106.</p>

<p>You just made me remember a girl I knew in college whom was of Chinese ancestry.</p>

<p>Her nationality was actually Dominican, the Dominican Republic being one of the Caribbean nations, including Cuba and Trinidad, that have a significant population of ethnic Chinese or their descendants. Anyway, she was quite bright and friendly but had a hard time relating to the Chinese-American and Chinese immigrant students (no mystery when you think about it). Yes, she spoke Cantonese but Spanish was her native language. She was outgoing but the Chinese kids didn’t know what to make of her, so she just ended up avoiding them and was ultimately happy about that. So for kids seeking to find their fit in the lap of diversity, the moral of the story is ‘your mileage may vary.’</p>

229

<p>menloparkmom ,</p>

<p>Not USC, please. Too expansive. Crime-ridden neighborhood. :(</p>

<p>Try any UC.</p>

230

<p>

</p>

<p>?? It seems that you’re denigrating these folks for denigrating everything associated with their ancestral origins. Why can’t you live and let live? If some other person doesn’t care for his / her ancestral origins and traditions, what’s it to you?</p>

231

<p>

</p>

<p>Because it’s the flipside to the cliquish/exclusionary attitudes Oldfort’s Ds and other nearly/completely assimilated Asian-Americans have encountered with international Asian students or immigrant/not as assimilated Asian-Americans. </p>

<p>The behavior I was describing has often turned into a form of exclusionary/cliquish behavior practiced by highly assimilated Asian-Americans against immigrant or not-as-assimilated Asian-Americans or those who grew up in -towns. </p>

<p>One good thing about not fitting neatly into any of the camps and having friends in all groups is having the opportunity to observe this behavior from all those camps. Especially considering such exclusionary behaviors from all those camps were directed at me at times before the perpetrators realized they’ve shown themselves up as idiotic jerky chumps by doing so…and having it pointed out to them by their fellow group members who are more open minded and know me better.</p>

232

<p>Well, OP’s D is an a different position. And I didn’t think it was others with Asian roots who were offending her. And I got the impression she is a fair sort, to begin with, since all this stings her. OP is looking for a solution and details that apply to this sort of transfer idea.</p>

233

<p>It seems what OP’s D faced was the sort of blatant racism most of us been consigned to the distant historical past by now. </p>

<p>Unfortunately, judging by OP’s account and some others on this thread along with some recent news stories like one of a Ohio teacher using racial slurs on social media against African-American kids who were supposedly vandalizing a utility pole by his house on Halloween night, this issue is still with us. </p>

<p>However, one improvement compared with the past is that it’s less acceptable and there’s more willingness to hold those who use racial slurs or otherwise exhibit discriminatory behaviors/actions accountable than was the case in the not too distant past where sufferers were expected to “develop thick skin” or “tough it out”.</p>

234

<p>Wow, go away for a few hours and voila! Instant debate and conversation. </p>

<p>Please know I appreciate the interest in this topic. If I wasn’t raising a non-white child, I would probably be going blithely along, thinking our society has “come so far away from racism that we have a black president.” Well, we have come some distance, but from my vantage point, we have a long, long way to go. It’s not a pleasant reality, but it is the reality. </p>

<p>Yes, I agree that my daughter will have to deal with racism and questions/comments wherever she goes (does that make anyone else sad? It does me) and has dealt with growing up, even though she went to a very diverse high school (60% black and 40% other). From the time we adopted her, people have stopped and asked us questions, but most of those people were well meaning, even if their questions could have been more elegantly stated. She grew up watching my husband and me handle this stuff with friendly, warm conversation (except the time a woman said “How much did she cost?”) and she grew very adept at that, herself. In other words, she can tell the difference between someone who just is curious and maybe ignorant and someone who has a more malicious or mean intent. For instance, we were visiting one of her grandpas in an assisted living home and another resident saw her, and began screaming out “Bonsai! Bonsai!” She just smiled at him and said to me “Mom, he thinks I am Japanese. He must be a WWII vet.” </p>

<p>She’s had numerous people ask if she likes the color red (having come from “Red China,” you know!), if she is a kung fu or martial arts master, is she good at math and does she play the violin? Once she was even asked if her ordering mushrooms on her pizza was “you know, some kind of Chinese pizza thing?” “Nope,” she answered. “It’s an American girl who loves mushrooms on her pizza thing.”</p>

<p>So this not a kid who is on the safari for slights or has never encountered a question. When she worked in retail, she got questions from customers about how long she has been in this country and can she understand them. </p>

<p>So this isn’t, well, that. This is an atmosphere where enough things have happened to her and to kids of color around her that it feels uncomfortable, unwelcoming and so on. (By the way, the person called the “n” word was her boyfriend, and it was by a drunken white frat boy who had just punched out a ceiling tile in the dorm hallway. The boyfriend was firmly telling the white kid that he couldn’t be in the dorm if he was acting out, and the fray boy didn’t like someone with darker skin bossing him around.) </p>

<p>A number of students of color have told my daughter that they hated this school the first year, and by junior year they had made peace with it. Several AA students from NC have told her that this is how life is, and are surprised she hasn’t had more experience dealing with it, and they suggest she stick it out and suck it up. </p>

<p>I happen to work at a university myself, so I know a lot of what goes on, and what doesn’t go on. Where I work, there is a critical mass of non white and international kids, and we don’t have to grapple with these racist issues quite as often as my D has. </p>

<p>By the way, the reason she was crying about the Chinese teacher was she was frustrated. She likes the teacher, who is very earnest and yes, very Chinese (from PRC) and who tries very hard. According to my daughter, the teacher often asks her after class “How am I doing? Are there things I could do better?” If the white girls in question were just occasionally poking fun of the teacher, that’s one thing. It’s quite another for a girl born in China who has been raised to feel proud of her racial and cultural heritage to see a well meaning teacher who “matches” her mocked for the way she speaks, what she says, and so on. </p>

<p>I really think it’s tough for most white people to understand, because most of us haven’t gone through our lives experiencing this stuff. We get privileges just for the color of our skin, whether we want to acknowledge that or not. </p>

<p>Thanks again.</p>

235

<p>

</p>

<p>Wait, he called your daughter a [small</a> tree](<a href=“http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bonsai]small”>Bonsai - Wikipedia)? Or do you mean “banzai” in reference to an aggressive, but often costly, charge by Imperial Japanese Army units?</p>

236

<p>You sound like a smart and loving mom, with a daughter whose heart and values are in the right place. The more you wrote on this thread, the clearer it was, to me, that this is not something your D wants to even seem to be endorsing, by her presence there. You have some hard decisions, but I think you and she have an idea of what the right moves are. </p>

<p>It doesn’t matter if some disagree with you or make it through that college. Or endure more or less. In more ways than I can put here, you are trying to do right by her and by the values you raised her with. I’d put an arm around your shoulder. It’s hard, but important. Best to your family.</p>

237

<p>

</p>

<p>If he’s a WWII vet, he’s probably screaming out “Banzai!” meaning “May the Emperor reign for ten thousand years” in Japanese as opposed to “Bonsai!” which is a type of carefully pruned Japanese/Korean tree. </p>

<p>The former was often screamed by Japanese troops in toasts, upon victory, and when they’re making suicide charges towards enemy lines. The last was encountered so often by US troops that they became known by American GIs in the Pacific as “Banzai charges”. </p>

<p>

</p>

<p>Actually, the color red has had a much longer historical significance in Chinese history and culture predating the forced appropriation by the Chinese Communists. Traditionally, it has been considered a lucky positive color for thousands of years. </p>

<p>In fact, the Chinese equivalent of saying something is famous, golden, successful, etc is to say “something’s red”. </p>

<p>

</p>

<p>While I doubt there are too many idiots who are so ignorant to believe ordering extra pepperoni and sausage is a Chinese thing on my account, [sarcasm]maybe I shouldn’t rule that out…[/sarcasm]</p>

238

<p>ucb, THATS what you took from that post?</p>

<p>ETA: cobrat, you, too?</p>

239

<p>

</p>

<p>Yep. Am a WWII history buff with strong interests in the Second-Sino-Japanese war and the Pacific. It also helps that I know some Mandarin and Banzai in Japanese translates as “wan sui” in Mandarin which means ten-thousand years old and in the context of the Imperial Japanese forces, yelling it means paying homage to the emperor by wishing he reigns for ten-thousand years.</p>

240

<p>Maybe it was one of those really stupid auto-correct mistakes.</p>