<p>xiggi at least you were clear and concise this time, although WRONG! Racial discrimination is a serious issue and you have made it a game with your word play. Discussion is needed but your shameful attempts at putting Asian Americans in a bad light with your posts is not funny.</p>
<p>Some Asians cheat. I don’t have any problems admitting that. The problem is when xiggi takes it upon himself to argue that Asians are especially bad at cheating. He has no evidence for that claim, and what’s more, he would never, not even if a gun were pointed to his head, make such a blanket generalization of blacks and Hispanics. In fact, if anyone were to have made such a broad sweeping claim, you can rest assured that xiggi would be among the first to cry racism and discrimination. But for Asians? Ho, he has no problems with going full Juror #10.</p>
<p>A few years back, an NYU professor wrote a blog post where he stated that he would never again crackdown on cheating. You can still find copies of it online, and you can see that he said</p>
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<p>But “everybody cheats” isn’t as glamorous as “Asians are venal grade grubbers,” now is it, xiggi?</p>
<p>Straw men reign supreme. Both of you are arguing a point I never made. Again, read what I wrote and not what you implied it meant. Jym626 had no problems identifting the matter at hand. Why was that so shard for you to understand who a subset of scorers are? Do you really think that it is a proxy for ALL Asians? </p>
<p>How do you expect me to respond to such misplaced analysis with a grain of seriousness? </p>
<p>So you are confirming that you are incapable of writing clearly and with specificity. So for you “who a subset of scorers are” clearly and concisely describes those international Chinese and South Korean students who were caught cheating and does not create any inference that any other Asian students domestic or abroad are also cheats. Doubt that most would agree with your claim. Keep going, your digging a deeper and deeper hole for yourself.</p>
<p>You have just confirmed what fabrizio has been stating.</p>
<p>Yeah right! Pot meet kettle! </p>
<p>For the last time, what I wrote was very clear and was a direct and TIMELY reference to the latest cheating occurence in China and Korea. Again, Jym had no problem identifying the scope of my words by pointing to an article that described the incidents. In a thread were some bring up test scores up again and again, what do you think a “pipeline” of “high scores” might be? </p>
<p>Here is a reality for you. As much as some here seem to want a dialogue, almost all conversations derail BECAUSE of the attitude that combines defensiveness and passive aggression. Look at my post and the … subsequent responses that delve deep in straw men, speculation, and misrepresentation. </p>
<p>Some here have huge problems following basic discussions. Even a simplistic analogy to the presence of test banks among fraternities is distorted in a silly twist. Of course, there was no intimation that Asians were responsible for such presence … it was an analogy to the denial of the obvious. And, like it or not, people who ARE or HAVE BEEN involved in the industry on a professional basis have known for a long time about the depth and scope of the cheating rings. Would it have been simpler to borrow the words of Captain Renault … one more time? </p>
<p>The last exchanges exemplify the reasons why this thread and its related subject have been relegated to this small corner of CC. The reason? The impossibility to have serious discussions that do not veer endless “talking around” the issues until one might … give in.</p>
<p>After more than a decade around these shores, don’t you think I can recite most arguments presented relentlessly by my dear friend Fabrizio? And what has this accomplished? For eons, I have been repeating that if you want real changes, you need to move the discussions to an area where differences are made. This forum is no such place. People who agree with the allegations (or reject it forcefully) of blatant discrimination in college admissions CANNOT do anything to change the situation. What is needed is to form active groups that can present valid arguments based on evidence.</p>
<p>However, a good start would be to stop demonizing arguments and commentaries that were simple and … simply true. Stop demonizing AND stop twisting arguments in hopeless webs of misrepresentation. </p>
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<p>Humm – what do you think my post that triggered this barrage of indignation related to? </p>
<p>Seriously!</p>
<p>How hilarious it is to see xiggi complain of “straw men” when he repeatedly claims that I wish to “establish a racial superiority”!</p>
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<p>This is what I meant by xiggi always being able to cover his behind with his “optimal” vagueness. xiggi said, quote, “Abroad is the starting point.” THE STARTING POINT. But noooo, now that he’s been called out and has to save his bonafides, xiggi insists that he is merely talking about international students and not Asian Americans. Never mind that he also said, quote, “As far as the domestic scene goes, the dynamics are different, and more insidious. But the correlation are equally powerful [sic].” Yep, he’s really only talking about international students. 2+2=5, folks.</p>
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<p>Actually, I don’t think you can. I don’t think you’ve ever understood what my arguments and positions are. You can straw man my arguments and positions exceedingly well, but you cannot even regurgitate them because you find them so offensive and so “wrong.”</p>
<p>Meanwhile, after a decade of discussing this topic with you and people like you, I can reproduce your arguments and positions without straw manning them. Don’t believe me? Here I go:</p>
<p>Diversity is immensely beneficial. It enriches the learning environment as well as the development of all students. To ensure that the benefits of diversity are attained, top universities must be allowed to have holistic admissions that consider the entire individual. By taking into account life experiences in the admissions process, a critical mass of underrepresented groups can be realized such that no one feels like he or she is merely a token but rather an equal among many.</p>
<p>Of course, I can trash everything I just said, but it’s really not hard to reproduce your side’s arguments and positions. All I have to do is write meaningless boilerplate.</p>
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<p>So you admit that what you’re doing is singling out one group for a type of bad behavior that is exhibited by some people of all groups? Bravo, xiggi.</p>
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<p>If that were the extent of my position, why would you feel compelled to trash it? Although the words you used to describe my positions fall short of the many nuances I have suggested in the past, I am not sure why you would fault them enough to want to trash them? </p>
<p>As far as reproducing YOUR positions, since you consider yourself a concise and precise writer, how hard would it be for me to cut and paste from perhaps a few hundreds posts where you repeated the same argument. Over and over! </p>
<p>Is there much value in playing a game of trying to reproduce our past positions? In the end, you will think you can regurgitate mine to the tee, and I will think the same about you. Then we will engage in a merry-go-round of addressing the missing holes. </p>
<p>Like it or not, this discussion has been going on for a long time. A long time in which I have suggested how ineffective and sterile your efforts have been. You are playing conductor to a train that stops at a few stations a year in the hope a few passengers who share your views jump on. Next to them, are a few innocent bystanders who wonder why this is all about and risk to challenge the usual diatribes exchanged. And then to jump out at the next station. </p>
<p>In the end, you are riding this train to … nowhere, and safe and except what appears to be a source for a bit of personal satisfaction, I do not see why you are keeping at it. In a way, I fully know that you are welcoming my usual grenade as it fuels another weeks of discussion in this thread. </p>
<p>I think I have said this before, but here we go again. I feel sorry for you. I really do! And with this I let you have the final words as I do not doubt that they will contain some twisted analysis of what was written, and an illusory claim of having scored some points and “won” the argument. </p>
<p>I wish you’d realize that “winning” an argument with you does NOT matter to me in the least. Nor would make you see the silliness of this entire debate in the correct light. </p>
<p>Until next time! </p>
<p>Oh, the hubris. I didn’t copy and paste anything from you, xiggi; I wrote my reproduction of your side’s arguments and positions on the spot in less than two minutes. And as I expected, xiggi, you cannot, quote, “recite” my arguments and positions, despite your claim that you could. You’ve never understood them; you can only grotesquely distort them as straw men and assert that I am a racial supremacist.</p>
<p>Watching you two go back and forth is exhausting.</p>
<p>That said, I didn’t misunderstand xiggi at all when he said that fraternities have test banks. He has as much to say about greek orgs as he does about the SAT, if you ever read any other part of the board than this thread. It’s clear to me that he didn’t mean anything about Asians with that.</p>
<p>OHMomof2, so are you saying that if you haven’t read xiggi’s other threads that one would have been confused about what was stated in post #1111? Could the post have been interpreted in only one way? Was the post clear in that it was referring to an isolated case of cheating in China and South Korea with international students? </p>
<p>Could xiggi have done anything different to make his comments clear? If he could, why didn’t he? It would have been simple to make his point clear and it doesn’t take much to add a link supporting his comments. This person has made nearly 23K posts so he was well aware of what he was doing. Most of us on CC are not so prolific in posting about every subject that becomes available nor do we read every single thread. Xiggi is well aware of that, but yet he posts comments that were deliberately intended to confuse the reader about Asian Americans and why they have such high test scores. </p>
<p>You stated that “he didn’t mean anything about Asians with that”. If he didn’t, why did he not just apologize for the misunderstanding like I or you would have done and clarified, rather than say “What a display of bottomless stupidity.”??</p>
<p>His comments are similar to a professor that I had. One of the students in my class was disruptive during his lecture. The professor threw a chalk at the student that went right over his head, the professor then said “I’m sorry, I missed.” and went on with the lecture. The student and others new to this professor thought this was an apology, the rest of us knew better.</p>
<p>OK, let’s be real here. Besides IFC PR people, who actually denies that fraternities have test banks? Who? In my experience, no one. It’s no secret that they have such “resources.”</p>
<p>So what was xiggi’s point in bringing this up? Some people deny the obvious? Setting aside my opinion that no one really denies this, what does xiggi want to say? Some people deny that some Asians cheat? Who? Who denies that some Asians cheat? Some people of all “group” backgrounds cheat! So why does xiggi feel compelled to single out one group from many for this particular case of bad behavior?</p>
<p>Hi, I am a Sephardic Jew from my mother’s side, white from my father’s side and I was born in Latin America (I practice Catholicism btw)
I was wondering what options should I select for race?
Should it be Hispanic, white and Jewish?</p>
<p>@SephardicJewESA You might want to select Hispanic only for most schools. It would give you the biggest boost to your admission chances. You might add Jewish, but that will depend upon the individual school. Most schools, religion is suppose to be a nonfactor, but for instance if you applied to Washington and Lee, being Jewish would be a plus with its AdCom.</p>
<p>I’m half Korean and half Dominican…I consider myself black, Hispanic, Asian, etc. etc…
It is frustrating to have to define myself with little checkmarks…esp. when multiple answers/other is not allowed.</p>
<p>Take Hispanic and black and move on</p>
<p>pippintook, you are free to select any choices that are applicable, but as theanaconda bluntly advised, selecting Black and Hispanic will give you an edge, a very substantial edge in admissions. You don’t have to like it but you have to play the game if you want to take advantage of the “diversity” benefits given to those two ethnic groups by college adcoms.</p>
<p>BTW what you mark on an college application does not define you in any way other than for purposes of admissions. You are free to associate, identify, or anything else that pleases your fancy that defines you and makes you happy. It is unfortunately the reality of the college admission process that you can not be so free to mark every applicable ethnic choice without possible negative consequences.</p>
<p><a href=“Lawsuits challenge affirmative action as discriminatory against Asian-Americans”>http://■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■/2014/11/lawsuits-challenge-affirmative-action-as-discriminatory-against-asian-americans/</a></p>
<p><a href=“http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/harvard-unc-sued-admission-policies-26972773”>http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/harvard-unc-sued-admission-policies-26972773</a></p>
<p>So…another Tuesday in the hilariously complex world of college admissions nowadays?</p>