<p>You don’t though.</p>
<p>Do you think that the SAT shouldn’t be considered because some people naturally score higher than others?</p>
<p>Do you think that course rigor shouldn’t be considered because some schools have harder classes than others?</p>
<p>Do you think that letters of recommendation shouldn’t be considered because some teachers write them better than others?</p>
<p>Those are all technicalities. If those were truly situations without control, then we’d have no control over anything we do.</p>
<p>“We can’t control the food we eat because first the farmers have to grow them, but they might live in areas with poor soil. The transport truck might break down, and therefore we’ll have to eat potatoes today instead of legumes.”</p>
<p>SATs: students have tons of control over this
rigor: I’m pretty sure the rigor of your classes is judged against what is available at your school. And the variation between people who score 5’s on their APs is minimal.
recs: you can choose to ask for them from great teachers.</p>
<p>How would you suggest a person creating freedom for himself or herself when it comes to race? You can’t.</p>
<p>Not to mention race is an absurd category. Some courseloads are more rigorous, 2400>2200, and some extracirrcs are just better.</p>
<p>Is one race better than another?</p>
<p>Do you know of anyone who’s gone to the extent of changing their name (say from Wang, Patel, or O’Connor to Garcia or Sanchez) and not marking the race, recalibrating their ECs, avoiding interviews, etc. hoping to get a boost? If so, the results will only be anecdotal, but would still be interesting.</p>
<p>“SATs: students have tons of control over this”</p>
<p>Not sure how “tons” is defined, but I’d like to see some non anecdotal evidence of this. I think the “outliers” ( bottom 5th percentile and top 5th percentile) are no more “controlled” than skin color.</p>
<p>I’ll be frank: I anglicised my surname to hide my ethnicity. I maintained the meaning of my family’s surname but totally changed the sound and by extension spelling. I also refused to answer the race / ethnicity question on my grad school apps. I have no idea whether either of my actions resulted in my being accepted to a dream school because I have no control. Maybe there is no causality, but all I know is that I performed those actions and I got in.</p>
<p>"You’re penalizing him or her for something that is out of his or her control. If he or she knew(which he or she probably does), the applicant will almost definitely experience–or even worse, exhibit–repugnance for his or her race.</p>
<p>Why be it if it doesn’t do you any good?"</p>
<p>same argument can be used for african americans in real life.
you look only at college admissions,not life.
assuming you are penalized in college asmissions /are you penalized when applying for a job? buying a house? buying a car?
Its myopic to only look at college.</p>
<p>I’m an Indian-American, and from what I’ve seen/heard, that probably won’t help me in college admissions. I can’t really choose to mark “other” or not mark one because my last name is a dead-giveaway:(
So yea, Indians are Aryans which scientifically come under the classification of Caucasian. And then again, human life did originate in Africa 
So what’s everyone viewpoint on this?</p>
<p>Uh…no? While indians are partially from the Aryan tribes, Indian is generally considered Asian, as far as I know. I don’t know what any of that has to do with Africa, however.</p>
<p>I don’t think the whole affirmative action thing is “fair” for applicants, but I can definitely see why schools want to make sure they don’t get too few/many students of a certain race.</p>
<p>I’m Asian, but if I were the president of my own college, I wouldn’t want everyone in the school to be the same. I think you’re getting a little too technical; they probably just figure people who are Indian are going to have similar interests and come from similar backgrounds, and want to diversify.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>How could everyone in the school possibly be the same, when each individual human being has differing life experiences, even in a pair of twins brought up in the same home?</p>
<p>^They’re just saying that they want visible diversity, srsly.</p>
<p>Re 515</p>
<p>That’s one of my criticisms of the “diversity” rationale–it’s misleading. “Diversity” advocates try to persuade others that “diversity” refers to the celebration of a multitude of differences, not just melanin levels. But when push comes to shove, the true colors emerge: “diversity” refers solely to visible diversity. In other words, if I can’t see the difference, then there must not be any.</p>
<p>I strongly disagree with such a view.</p>
<p>Though I agree with the notion that people of the same color will be diverse in their experiences, I also believe that, generally speaking, the experiences of people of color will be different from white people. </p>
<p>I think we all agree that the African American people have a culture that is unique and different when compared to the white culture. Hospanics have a unique culture. I am Chinese American and I know my upbringing differed from the average white person but was similar to the way my Chinese American friends were brought up. Of course, there will be exceptions but generally this is true. These differences are usually more predictable and obvious than the differences between two white people. I also think economic conditions result in diverse viewpoints, sometimes even greater than that produced by racial conditions, but schools seems to be less interested in that diversity. </p>
<p>And I believe the evil some of you fear is also true. I believe that college admininstrators do what color diversity. They want their campuses to mirror the color diversity of this nation. I am not offended by that notion, and it seems grossly apparent to me that this is happening, but I suppose legal issues prevent colleges from admitting the truth.</p>
<p>A question came up by revival of a very old thread about how American Indian or Alaska Native race categorization is verified by colleges. Let’s discuss that here.</p>
<p>Just back from New Orleans. THAT was cool; a line from a local author, Poppy Z. Brite;"…those mysterious cafe-au-lat colored men who populate New Orleans , their complexions and features unclassifiable by even the most rabid segregationist. "</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>You CANNOT speak in general terms. It MUST, or at least should, be considered on an individual basis. There is no path that “generally speaking, African Americans” go through. Same for Caucasians. </p>
<p>If you can delineate such a path, I’d like to hear it.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>That is the problem, isn’t it?</p>
<p>You know, I’ve always wondered whether or not this issue is divided by racial lines. That is, with Whites and Asians opposing it or showing apathy towards it if they do not feel like it impacts them directly, and minorities supporting it even if it doesn’t impact them directly.</p>
<p>Would African Americans, Hispanics, Native Americans, etc. still support the concept of affirmative action if they were considered “adequately represented,” resulting in a shift of AA focus from them onto Asians?</p>
<p>Do not suggest that they are already overrepresented; many of you may be dying to bust out some Ivy League statistics demonstrating the percentages of Asians there. Instead, consider other schools such as Wake Forest U, where there are more Hispanics than Asians and Boston College, where the ethnic percentages are statistically congruent: 11% A to 10% H.</p>
<p>Tackle it strictly from a conceptual point of view.</p>
<p>P.S. Are minors (<18) allowed to legally change their name? I have always wanted to change my name for reasons formulated long before this whole college debacle surfaced, but I wasn’t aware of it being a possibility for me until I turn 18.</p>
<p>Would it be fair to say “generally speaking”, genetic dwarfs, lepers, or albinos have a different experience? I know it’s different, but would it be fair?</p>
<p>BTW, my Black kids have an “Irish” surname.</p>
<p>Well those groups are truly disadvantaged. Are African Americans, as a collective, disadvantaged? Or are there some African Americans that are disadvantaged, just as there are some disadvantaged Caucasians and Asians?</p>
<p>As to your actual question at hand, I would say that it would be both correct and fair to say that they have different experiences.</p>
<p>I’m not talking about disadvantage. (and I substituted groups who look different vs being “handicapped”).That is not the only source of perspective.</p>
<p>"Would African Americans, Hispanics, Native Americans, etc. still support the concept of affirmative action if they were considered “adequately represented,” </p>
<p>As I’ve said before, I think 99 percent of African Americans probably wouldn’t even know what your talking about, at least in the context of college admissions, as it has no bearing on them.</p>
<p>OK then I would say that members of groups face adversity almost all of the time.</p>
<p>Can you say the same for African Americans?</p>
<p>If I may be so bold, I’d say that a majority of African American college applicants have educational and economic circumstances that are not so different from Whites’ and Asians’.</p>
<p>The image of a white kid who lives in a Mansion and has gone to top-notch private schools since kindergarten must be erased.
You simply cannot say that “in general,” White kids are better off. A very small percentage of them are indeed better off, but what about the rest of the population?</p>
<p>And finally, yes, dwarves and leppers look different. I don’t look anything like your kids, but is it fair that their looks grant them advantages when it comes to the college process?</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>First of all, the actual percentage is surely lower than 99%. But even if that were the actual percentage, what about the 1% that knows what I’m talking about? What would they think? Your presence on this forum automatically puts you in that mythical 1%. What would you think?</p>
<p>Also, do you find it unironic that the 99% for which college admissions has no bearing upon is one of the biggest reasons why that 1% receives such a boost? </p>
<p>If it has no bearing on them, why consider them in the equation? Why is it 1% of all African Americans and not 100% of all African American college applicants?</p>
<p>To me, having a 55-25-10-10 W-A-H-B racial profile is not a problem.
A problem would arise when the percentage of W-A-H-B applicants accepted turns out to be 55%-25%-10%-10%, but we know that’s not the case.</p>