<p>All minorities in the history of the US have been discriminated against. African Americans were forced into slavery, Japanese Americans were forced into internment camps, Asian Americans were exploited to work on the cross-continental railroad, etc. Even low-income Caucasians are discriminated against. So it really doesn’t make any sense to consider race as a factor in college admissions.</p>
<p>I understand if a person’s socioeconomic status is considered since families with lower incomes do not have as many opportunities, but again, considering race as a factor does not make much sense.</p>
<p>Ideally, colleges should only look at students’ merits in terms of the opportunities the students had. Thus, colleges should consider socioeconomic status, but should not even ask for a student’s race to ensure that no discrimination can possibly happen.</p>
<p>"You talk about the deliberate and systematic attempts to deprive blacks of education when slavery was legal. In 1940, it had not yet been four score and seven years since the Civil War ended. Given that the last Civil War veteran on the Union side died in 1956, it is possible that some blacks alive in 1940 were not born free; some still had memories of that time period. And yet, as I said, IN SPITE OF horrific institutionalized discrimination, blacks on their own reduced their poverty rate by fifty-seven percentage points (87 to 30) in three decades. They did that without any racial preferences.</p>
<p>If you listen to the defenders of racial preferences, what they did during those thirty years should have been impossible. So how could they have done that?"</p>
<p>StitchInTime
That Baylor information was awsome! Someone has already completed some GPA Calcs on the data…</p>
<p>Here are the stats for GPA {mean, median, std dev}:</p>
<p>Black/African American {3.77, 3.76, 0.12}
African {3.72, 3.71, 0.10}
White {3.54, 3.58, 0.31}
Native American {3.51, 3.60, 0.35}
Latino {3.44, 3.47, 0.37}
Asian {3.44, 3.46, 0.33}</p>
<p>I’m sure the same for LSAT scores is coming. Honestly, I didn’t even know Baylor had a law school? I’m sure lawsuits are coming from really angry students and parents. That was truly truly awful to have private information leaked this way!</p>
<p>Keep in mind more Asians are going with Medical Schools and Engineering graduate schools. Less are going with Law because Asians’ common impression is that Lawyers are sneaky.</p>
<p>And law schools know about grade-deflation in top schools. A 3.5 UC Berkeley GPA is probably equivalent or stronger than a 3.8 - 3.9 in UT-Austin. (UC Berkley kids are from high achieving highschoolers) </p>
<p>If one pays attention, there is one Asian with lower GPA from Ivy League school where brutal competition/grade deflation is common (U-Penn ) and this certainly brings the average down. </p>
<p>With those in calculation, it is hard to say who are higher achievers. (and HomeSchoolerNewbe’s list doesn’t reflect GPA competition in top college factor, so the list when using as a comparison is flawed.)</p>
<p>Wow… What? #363 The Asian with a GPA of 2.53 and the #386 African American with the GPA of 3.64 both went to UT Austin?? How can you not compare the GPAs of two students from the exact same school?</p>
<p>I think that Baylor really did use a holistic approach to admissions. If you had a lower LSAT score you needed a higher GPA and vice versa. I really can’t see AA in play here with only 4% minorities being admitted anyways. Seems like Baylor graduates had the lower GPAs so maybe that was an alumni/legacy preference coming into play.</p>
<p>HomeSchoolNewbe, I think the LSAT scores might be a bit more helpful, given the large variation in GPA calculations across different schools. As for #363 and #386, you do not know if they both came from the business school, for example, or if they had the same major.</p>
<p>Regardless, the fact of the matter is that affirmative action is widely used in many colleges across the nation. This debate is not about whether race is a factor or not in college; the debate is about if race should be a factor or not.</p>
<p>“Wow… What? #363 The Asian with a GPA of 2.53 and the #386 African American with the GPA of 3.64 both went to UT Austin?? How can you not compare the GPAs of two students from the exact same school?”</p>
<p>Because I cannot compare just one person in each group.
How about compare all Asians to all African A. from UT Austin?</p>
<h1>4,57,91,341- Asians from UT Austin with 3.9, 3.8, 3.8, 3.7 compare to</h1>
<h1>311, 127, 386 - African A. from UT Austin with 3.7, 3.6, 3.6</h1>
<p>I throw thatGPA 2.5 Asian student out of the picture because he/she has LSAT scored at 170 (on the high side) and I am not convinced that the GPA data on this leaked document has not been altered.</p>
<p>Clearer now. However, I have to question the author of that article who leaked these information and how the university handled this “mistake”/“accident” or this turned out not be an accident? (was this person disciplined? has he/she changed anything in the spreadsheet for whatever purpose?)</p>
<p>This info is good news to me because it looks to me no one needs racial preferences; which means we could do away with the rest as well and the world would be just fine. Those with higher GPAs had lower LSATs; those with higher LSATs had lower GPAs… to me this is holistic and fair. No group was significantly at a disadvantage. Now, what I find confusing is, FindMoreInfo and NuclearPenguin, you seem to be trying to find ways to discount what you should clearly be celebrating? It turns out, according to this data, that African Americans don’t need or really didn’t benefit very much from affirmative action so why keep it, right? Why would you want to discount data that clearly helps your position? Unless…</p>
<p>HomeSchoolNewbe,
“Those with higher GPAs had lower LSATs; those with higher LSATs had lower GPAs”
Answer: No</p>
<p>“It turns out, according to this data, that African Americans don’t need or really didn’t benefit very much from affirmative action so why keep it, right?”</p>
<p>Answer: African A./black did benefit from affirmative action, (you have to compare apples to apples) and they won’t agree to do away with affirmative action unless the law said so.</p>
<p>Compare all Asians to all African A. from UT Austin:</p>
Maybe that student’s ancestors came here in the 1930s, and he is not one of the special second generation Asian-Americans who are in the top 1% of American population.</p>
<p>Hence the, “Regardless, the fact of the matter is that affirmative action is widely used in many colleges across the nation. This debate is not about whether race is a factor or not in college; the debate is about if race should be a factor or not.”</p>
<p>You are right this would be a case showing how minorities do not need the help of affirmative action. I was merely pointing out that there shouldn’t be too much emphasis placed on this 1 example. Like I said before, the debate is about if race should be a consideration or not in admissions, not if it is or not. I maintain my position that race should not be a factor, and perhaps this case study can be used to back that up.</p>
<p>Mokusatsu, you quoted me out of context Originally Posted by Findmoreinfo
I throw that GPA 2.5 Asian student out of the picture</p>
<p>And then you said Maybe that student’s ancestors came here in the 1930s, and he is not one of the special second generation Asian-Americans who are in the top 1% of American population.</p>
<p>Answer: It doesnt matter. They should only evaluate student performance on a fair ground.</p>
<p>What I really said is I throw thatGPA 2.5 Asian student out of the picture because he/she has LSAT scored at 170 (on the high side) and I am not convinced that the GPA data on this leaked document has not been altered.</p>
<p>That student has highest LSAT score. From my apple to apple comparison, student with higher GPA tend to have higher LSAT test score, thats why the highest LSAT holder has the lowest GPA is suspicious.</p>
<p>HomeSchoolNewbe, you said
"Oh I get it… no way did those black people outperform those Asian guys, right?
Sounds like Sour Superior Grapes to me…lolz "</p>
<p>Do you now agree that college and professional school admissions should do away with affirmative action while right now African Americans did get admitted with lower scores?</p>
<p>^
So, GPA is possibly altered, LSAT is possibly changed, even school is possibly altered - this line in the spreadsheet should not be considered. Sounds right.</p>
Sounds right.</p>