<p>SERIOUSLY these threads are so common that I’m going to scream if I see another one!!! :mad: </p>
<p>It’s nice to have ambitious people applying to these great schools. But reality is that they simply don’t have room for everyone, even if you’re great and you’ve worked hard depriving yourself of sleep by doing everything you can. </p>
<p>Again, just do what you love and hope for the best. The rule applies for everyone. If it doesn’t work out, go on a cruise and enjoy life so that it can sink in that undergrad is over-rated and grad school matters more. You’ll always have a second chance.</p>
<p>^And chocobok:
</p>
<p>That won’t help, because they can determine your ethnicity by looking at where your parents are born … yes they ask for that. So just be honest about yourself.</p>
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<p>Can you imagine how the campus would be like if everyone was a super-genius?? </p>
<p>^And Invoyable:
Right on! Admissions people are nice people. It’s just that they have a really difficult job to do, and they should be appreciated for doing what they do every year.</p>
<p>I really don’t think that there is anything that you can do without coming off as being fake. Just simply take pride and ownership in your work. If math and science happens to be your passion, embrace it and express a genuine interest in it. I think that artificially trying to stand out would reflect poorly. You don’t want to appear as if your parents crafted you either, which I imagine is a problem for a lot of Asian-Americans. </p>
<p>Also, while Asians do look fairly similar, in my experience, there really isn’t such a thing as a stereotypical Asian. Don’t let yourself fall into the belief that you are cookie-cutter Asian. Asians are a pretty diverse group within themselves. Many have different interests and come from different countries. </p>
<p>By the way, I’m a Vietnamese-American at Duke who happens to be a Math major and pre-med. Take what you will from that</p>
<p>I think that the problem is that people have different ideas of who should be getting into college and why. </p>
<p>Some people think it should be only off GPA, test scores, basically academics (an extreme example is like they used to do/ still do? in China (i don’t know if they still do) where people take a test, and based off that they get placed into their college)
Others think it should be holistic…with many different factors taken into account.</p>
<p>And it would be pretty boring to have the same sorts of people on campus. Diversity is important, even if it comes off as unfair at times.</p>
<p>Hopefully people will get into the college they deserve.</p>
<p>and btw i was only joking about not putting it on the application.</p>
<p>But let’s put it this way. This year, our school sent a sizable amount of students to top schools (HYPSM, other ivies, duke, etc.). Around 10 out of 150 of our graduating class. Out of these, 8 were recruited athletes (mostly rowers). 1 of them played multiple varsity sports (not recruited), had a 44/45 IB total, is an awesome trombone player, and was elected academic steward of our school, among other accomplishments. The last one was me, the only Asian. All of the other Asians were rejected, including a couple with amazing applications. In particular, I had a friend who has a perfect IB total (+valedictorian), is editor of our newspaper, is an amazing writer, plays varsity tennis, won our school prize for every subject he takes except 1, and is a dedicated head of 2 clubs. But he was Asian. This year in particular has been tough on asians.</p>
<p>That was my little rant. I like ranting. I’m sure we all have stories about the unfairness towards Asians. You ask how one can distinguish themselves from other Asians? You can’t. It doesn’t matter if you’re not math/science focused, our school had plenty of asians interested in politics and economics. You can only get lucky. Hopefully the person reading your essay has some connection with you. Or they started reading your app after having a nice hazelnut cappuccino (mmm hazelnet).</p>
<p>I am not a math or science genius- just had the usual top 3%, 2280 SAT, 800/800/780 on SATIIs etc, I only did USNCO & Science Olympiad as side events. I mainly did Yearbook, Red Cross volunteering, Art/Graphic Design business, and founded an online web property that brought in millions of views a month. (and 15hr/wk part time job)</p>
<p>Rejected at all Ivies except waitlist at Brown. I will be attending Duke this fall.</p>
<p>Don’t expect that because you aren’t a math/science Asian that you have an equal chance at a top school. Simply being Asian is enough of a disadvantage.</p>
<p>You really need to portray your self through your essays as REALLY special. Adcoms always talk about context. That means that in your school, district, region, state, nation you need to be REALLY REALLY special, and that’s relative. If you live in Wyoming, you are already pretty special. If you live in a middle class suburb where 50% of your school is Asian, be prepared to find someway to make yourself REALLY REALLY special.</p>
<p>Of course, the competition will be slightly less challenging for future students as 09 was the peak, but it will still be hard.</p>
<p>It is much easier for an Asian to get into a “top but not HYPSM level” school like Duke, Chicago, etc etc etc. Don’t expect much and you will be disappointed less (though the expectations of others are much harder to control… people thought I could get into at least Brown especially after my Duke acceptance, especially since I put 0 effort into Duke (no essays, just added it on the common app and tossed a couple bucks for the app fee) and put LOTS of effort into all my Ivy apps)</p>
<p>I recently read Jean Fetter’s book (Reflections on 100,000 Stanford Admissions Decisions or something like that) from 1995, just for fun. One thing struck me in particular–Fetter said that even if a minority student did not self-identify on the application, if the adcom could be reasonably sure of the student’s ethnicity (e.g. through testing records), the student would be given special consideration anyway. I don’t know if admissions offices still do this–it’s been 15 years–and probably it would vary among schools. Still, it’s kind of sad that a choice not to self-identify is not respected.</p>
<p>Gah, that sucks. I’m probably special throughout my school, district, and region, but state?? Nation?? I’m not nationally ranked in anything…</p>
<p>I just don’t know anymore. Would published research projects + ISEF/Siemens semi-finalist be considered “special” ? How bout AIME qualifier? </p>
<p>But those are still math/science related. </p>
<p>It seems impossible to be recognized state-wide or nationally in other fields, such as sports or debate. I’m pretty sure you don’t have to be THAT dominant. I’ve heard of typical asians who have been accepted into HYPS, even though they didn’t do much. But how?</p>
<p>I don’t know how much this has to with being Asian, but I think a lot of people view things like USAMO as a lot higher than what they really should be placed. Like, USAMO is good and impressive and stuff, but if you don’t even care about math, then what’s the point? I think adcoms would be more impressed with someone who didn’t make USAMO, maybe not even AIME, but started a math club at their school, brought the AMC contest to their school when it previously wasn’t offered and other similar things instead of someone who kind of just randomly made USAMO.</p>
This wasn’t unusual for Asians from my school. However, my school is less than 10% Asian and is located in an area that could be considered a “redneck” area. Here, being Asian is actually unique. Plus, there just isn’t very much competition. We’ve sent some of the most boring Asians to Harvard. By boring, I mean that they pretty much had a high GPA and SAT score and not much else to them.</p>
<p>The point of this thread isn’t to discuss how fair affirmative action is, it’s to give suggestions on how to stand out if you’re a math/science Asian. And I for one am a bit stumped on this one… essays, obviously, but writing one of the 5% or whatever of essays that actually distinguish you is very hard, so recs? But you can’t control those.</p>
<p>Would you guys answer the question??!!
The original question is not how is saying the system is unfair and messed up but about how an Asian good at math and science would be able to stand out against all those other asians good at math and science.
As an Asian myself, I would like to know that too</p>
<p>hmm, calm down tomjones. if its unfair, then thats life. going to a top non-hypms wont at all hinder your opportunities in life, if you play your cards right. just do your best and see what happens (as will i).</p>
<p>personally, i think it just comes down to how personable you seem. after all, ive known some ownage asian people throughout my years, but none of them have personality. the vast majority of them dont have an ounce of desire or any truly redeeming qualities for that matter. now, i only speak for myself, since i do go to a failing public. </p>
<p>on a side note, would you guys say being asian is the equivalent of being white (dont misunderstand this -.-, just in terms of college admissions) or would it be considered worse?</p>
<p>I don’t want to deny my race and some free apps helped my parents during application time. That said, there are so many factors that tell race,especially if you are lower middle class or less affluent.
An admissions officer at Wesleyan years ago, said you can tell by address sometimes, the school,names, the clubs, church activiites, etc. It’s silly to think you can really be anonymous unless you are an upper middle class URM that is detached from anything to do with race. Other posters have mentioned this a I agree.
I believe if a college wants to have a student for any reason, athletics, diversity, geography, etc. they will do so, they don’t have to say it, but they will. Test scores aren’t everything and to judge who gets in where just on that, is wrong. Many students , white and URM’s do well and are not be in the top percentage.
I know a white young woman who got into Yale with an 1800 (poor) and white male that was 2300, rejected…that was their perogative. I also know a black student, female that got into Yale with an old 1350 and is thriving, she loves it. To say she kept out a 2400 is silly, they wanted her and she is doing well. As the admissions guy told me, most students complaining weren’t getting in anyway, it just makes them feel better to blame someone else. Maybe that isn’t true across the board, but life isn’t always fair, jobs, promotions, many things will never be “fair”. You can’t punch in a formula and say, “this will happen” or you will be very disapointed. Top schools take very few and even without any “formula” many, many would be feeling bad about not getting in and there would be other reasons to make them feel better.</p>
<p>As far as the “Stats on CC” I would take them as a guide, but many students might lie and if they are against AA in admissions, might do lower stats on purpose and pretend to be someone they aren’t.</p>
<p>This may be a controversial question, but from what I see, is it a matter that colleges want to attract African-Americans/Hispanics that are proud of their culture and want to bring that pride to their school, or is it just the matter of having the skin color that they want?</p>
<p>Say that, me being a black male, I wrote my essays about being surrounded by African-Americans my entire life and NOT wanting to identify with the culture, and instead forming my own cohesive identity that involves all sorts of people of different races. That the racial grappling would be with “my own” (which is actually something that is increasingly becoming more common)? Would that be frowned upon?</p>
<p>I hope not. I wouldn’t join any groups just for African Americans because I felt they were inclusive and I didn’t grow up in a strong culture either way (bi-racial) I was called “not black” by some because I didn’t lilke rap, stupid things like that, but I understand certain knowledge is not understood by all and sometimes is a long process. I also was type-cast by white students, but I think that is why it is good not to live in a bubble, you have no real understanding of other people and tend to put them in a box.</p>
<p>BRJ-CT: Stats forthcoming, but from a quick skim through the book SHAPE OF THE RIVER by Bowen and Bok, I can tell you that there is a difference between race-sensitive and projected race-neutral admissions. The race-neutral admissions data was projected by assuming that black applicants in a given SAT range would be admitted at the same rate as white applicants in that range–definitely an imperfect measurement, but still useful. In reality, race-neutral admissions would remain holistic and take into account socioeconomic factors. It’s a straw-man argument to rail against test scores.</p>
<p>Here’s my take: you need to stop griping about the unfairness of it all and play the game the way it’s laid out. </p>
<p>If all white boys from Oklahoma City wanted to go to University of Oklahama, many of them would not get in. But one of these kids decided to get bold and apply to some school in ME, VT or GA, all of a sudden he adds something unique to the applicant pool. </p>
<p>As this relates to Asian-Americans, I suspect the bigger problem is that there are many strong students who 1) do seem to tend to want to concentrate in Science and/or Math disciplines, 2) come from similar parts of the country (CA, NY for instance), and 3) all want to go to HYPSM (and each one may have earned it). Truth is, these are five schools out of thousands, and they (just like the U of OK) probably feel that having 100% of any cultural group makes their school a very boring place. It is, after all, not their obligation to accept all students who are qualified.</p>
<p>So, what do you do? Well griping about it is one strategy, but one that is unlikely to help accomplish the goal. My suggestions…1) branch out beyond HYPSM in your initial search. There really are some excellent schools beyond the five with the lowest admit rate. 2) travel farther away from home. Being a brilliant Asian-American from NYC will be more unique to an adcom in IL, TX and - as one poster said - NC. 3) educating parents (often a major cuprit here) early of the realities of playing a low-odds hand and about some of the wonderful opportunities that exist outside this group. Spending your undergrad years outside the Northeast in places like, gasp, North Carolina or Texas may add all sorts of dimensions to your long-term personal growth.</p>
<p>At the end of the day, like many competitions, it’s a numbers game and you need to shift the table in your favor. I wish you the best.</p>