"Race" in College Applications FAQ & Discussion 12

Applying to College
501

The Columbia rate is a bit of a canard since Columbia also has a liberal arts college that admits only women–Barnard. So the number of women accepted by the university is much higher. And both Barnard and CC students receive the same diploma.

@roethlisburger Agree with you. Just because it is harder for women to be admitted doesn’t necessarily mean they are being discriminated against. It’s also harder for students from some states (NY, California) to be admitted to many highly selective colleges because of the sheer number of outstanding candidates.

502

@exlibris97 that’s exactly right…no one has called it discrimination. There is just more competition because there are more of them (women with high stats aiming at elite schools). And georgraphy is a factor also (for both sexes). In NJ, we call it the “white girl from NJ disease”. It is what it is. The silver lining is if you have great stats, even if you don’t get into your top choice, you will likely still have some great options. You might just have to adjust your expectations if you are aiming really high.

503

men do little better on SATs (1502 vs 1479 on 2400 scale in 2015, from college board) and women do better than men on GPA, number of APs so that would appear to be a wash. As others have said you need to show that men are getting in with significantly lower stats at the top schools, which admittedly is not easy to get, unless in the CDS numbers.

504

Peopel are losing part of the discussion…when you selectively post statistic collegemomjam it’s not helpful. we don’t know the mean sat scores of women maybe that’s what kept them out once nroamlzied

The reality is there is a diversity olympics at many top schools that neither helps poorer minorities but juts enriches rich minorities, many of whom never were suppose to get AA in the first place. this is by design. How can you tell me a rich white Jewish NJ girl should intuitively have a better chance than a Muslim scarf wearing Indian/Pakistani girl in my class?

That’s disturbing. And this is a system, at many top schools, that is by design.

The worst par for me isthat this system doesn’t attack the biggest reicpients of entitlements: white legacy males. Instead it pits minorities vs minorities for crumbs.

505

You need to re read that article and in particular the time article it’s based on. It is about work AA, not college AA.

506

I wrote about my experience with AA in this post: http://talk.qa.collegeconfidential.com/college-admissions/1992327-thoughts-abt-the-college-process.html#latest Any thoughts?

507

So you got into top research Us and top LACs, like top ten, and you are feeling like you should have done “better”?

  1. - you do NOT know that's why they got in. There is no way to know.
  2. - you don't "check off" first gen. Your report where your parents went to school(s) on the common app and that's all. Colleges use that information as they see fit.

The schools you didn’t get into reject the vast majority of applicants. No, there are no guarantees even with good stats.

You say earlier no one at your HS got into any ivy league schools, so I’m confused about that. But regardless, you really do NOT know what they put in their applications, what their teacher recommendations and guidance counselor recs said, how their apps were viewed. You may think you do from what you know, but you can’t know what any school wanted that they provided, just like you can’t know what any school that took you wanted that YOU provided.

My advice - move on and get ready for college.

1 Like
508

@OHMomof2
I am very happy with my results, but considering I helped my best friend, who is also first gen but didn’t know much about college and wanted to go to the college in our city (which is an awful college), apply to great colleges like Emory and Rice and he got in where I didn’t is a little unfair. Even he agreed that it’s weird that a student with a pretty bad work ethic, which is evident through grades and scores, got in without any hooks (under than being a URM) like there was nothing special abt ECs (just some school clubs like Spanish club, etc) and no leadership and the essays were poorly written at first and I was the one who edited them to make them a little better. So yes, I don’t know the applications of all the people at my school, but I did know the applications of my best friends. I had many people ask me questions about the college process at my high school because I’m valedictorian and because at my high school, the counselors aren’t very helpful.
I don’t know how to explain it bc I did get into great schools, and I’m very happy but I guess my question was more for specific schools like the schools that rejected me but accepted my friends (which shocked everyone at our school - teachers, the kids themselves, the parents (not just mine))

and I said no one from my high school got into ivy leagues, but in that quote I said people I am surrounded by, because I still know people going to the ivies!

And, lastly:

“you do NOT know that’s why they got in. There is no way to know.”

yes, this is a point I emphasized many times. I’m not even against AA! I’m just confused? I do not think that anyone who got in was so terrible that they didn’t deserve it. I mean yes my best friend who got into great schools is sorta weird, but the people who get into ivies definitely deserve it.

I’m just saying… us asians get a lot of heat for just being asian… and that’s not fair! It should be changed to where affirmative action helps anyone who is of low socioeconomic status… or the power of a legacy/AA should be decreased!

I do think that if I had written my essays about some of the hardships I went through, I could have gotten into better schools because admissions officers would have been able to see more clearly about my life and would have realized how hard I have worked and how I am different than asians who have doctors as parents or just go to better science/math schools. Yes, that’s my fault about writing my essays not on this, but I didn’t know that I should have. Everyone that writes about their hardships or family struggles, it always seemed weird to me. Even when my other chose to write about her getting bullied in middle school (nothing even severe, I was still great friends with her at the time), I didn’t think that was a good topic (It wasn’t a bad one bc that got her into some pretty awesome schools even though she’s not a great writer)
I thought it was more important to write about your passions and unique topics.

I guess I just seem like I’m complaining but if i knew what I know now, I would have done a couple things differently, and emphasized hardships to stand out

509

If you overcame significant hardships to get to where you are they could have been shared, yes, in essays or even better perhaps in the guidance counselor letter. Many schools let you tell your gc about yourself on a form if s/he doesn’t know you well. Admissions folks put achievements in the context of your socioeconomic status, your school quality, the level of education attained by your parents, etc. But only if they know about it.

It was nice of you to help other kids at your school. Don’t second guess that effort, be proud of it.

510

You do realize most SAT scores in combination with race basically throw out the majority of applicatoins before Admins get to even read essays right?

I really want some of the suporters of AA to answer a question I’ve asked repeadtedly without reply:Why is discriminating ORM like Asian Americna okay, but not Jews?

511

You should probably say what you mean by orm. Last I checked that included white people of all religions.

What’s your thinking or rather, evidence, for the idea that race plus sat means most apps are rejected without the essays being read? At which schools?

512

Not rejected but put into a different pile at all the top schools though GPA is also screened. Lopez1275 you are a new member but this topic has been exhaustedly discussed for many years on these threads. The bottom line is being a URM is a major hook though less than being a recruited athlete. That is the current system as it exists. The issue with Asians is far more complex than simple discrimination. It’s a tough issue with no simple answers.

513

SATs GRE LSAT etc are used as a negative filter…you really don’t think people read 30k+ applications right?

514

it’s discrimination plane and simple

You need to answer why it isn’t okay to discriminate Jews but it is Asians. Because a question like that is baffling. The reality is our system is DESIGNED to put down people like Asians, like disadvatnages african americans, latinos, muslims etc from challenging those in power.

Affirmative action is merely the facade of diversity. When HBS admits Nigerians and Cameroonians white Cubans over actually helping and mentoring lower income African Americans, they aren’t doing my community any favors.

God know if some of these adcoms would even know how to use data to give a leg up to those who need it, or have a basic grasp of statistics

515

I am challenging your assertion that Asian people are discriminated against and Jewish people are not.

516

“SATs GRE LSAT etc are used as a negative filter…you really don’t think people read 30k+ applications right”

I’m sure there is a bar below which apps are at least skimmed. But you said test scores in combination with race. What did you mean by that?

517

One question: Was Affirmative Action in college admission established due to the fact/accepted assumption that certain races have been discriminated in the American society in general, or is it because certain races have been under-represented (due to all kinds of factors) in college admissions? Now days, there are so many factors at play, imo it’s hard to say a student of certain race has been disadvantaged more than another student of a different race.

518

@websensation

If your question isn’t rhetorical, read the Fisher opinions.

519

@roethlisburger I found the 2015 Sup Ct Opinion, Fisher vs. University of Texas at Austin. Is this the decision you are talking about? I will read it first and then post something. Tx. Glancing at the Opinion, however, I see that this lawsuit was brought on against a PUBLIC university by a Caucasian student. Are the standards different if the defendant is a PRIVATE university such as Harvard?

520

^Yes. Under the Civil Rights Act, private colleges which accept public money(almost all of them) can be held to the same rules which apply to public colleges.