@websensation Then get busy. There are diversity fly in visit programs for urm that include Asian students at many top schools. Kids accepted to those have a much better chance of getting in than the general app pool.
There’s no top-10 college that treats Asians as a URM, maybe they treat them as regular applicants. Asians make up 6-7% of the population and are 20% at the non-stem top schools and 35-45% of top schools that don’t practice AA, are stem-based schools or give only slight preference for URMs. Yes, Asians and whites will be invited to diversity day, to show all ethnicities and races are represented. How can you be a URM if you’re 7% of the general pop and 20% of the college pop? Even LACs have 15% Asian population.
@theloniusmonk White students aren’t invited to fly-in diversity weekends at most schools unless they are also first-gen. And Asian students aren’t listed as “diverse” for this purpose at every college specifically, but at many, they are. Which goes back to my point about looking for schools that consider Asians URM.
These all expenses paid visits are not offered to just anyone, they are very competitive, and the accept rate from those who are chosen to attend is much higher than for the general population. It is as clear a signal as you will get about what the colleges want in terms of diversity.
For example, (#2 USNews so, yes, top 10) Amherst:
Barnard:
Grinnell:
Oberlin:
Middlebury:
Vassar:
Wellesley:
…you get the idea, I stopped at this point but this list is not exhaustive.
And then are these:
UPenn:
WashU:
Clearly, UPenn and WashU don’t have any trouble attracting qualified Asian applicants. They may be interested if they are also first gen or low income.
But those schools listed above? They do. They are PAYING for them to come visit. They are RECRUITING them.
An Asian applicant would be well advised to seek out those schools that consider it a hook. Just like male applicants should know that being male is a hook almost everywhere except tech schools, and especially so at LACs and certain ones more than others - Vassar, for instance. Conversely, women should know that their gender is a negative they have to overcome at most colleges, but at some - RIT, maybe MIT, etc, it is a hook.
Things are just not as black and white as you think.
I’m multiracial–Black on my father’s side, White and Hispanic on my mother’s side. Would top colleges count me as each of those individual things, or would they consider being mixed as an entirely different racial group? Obviously greater priority is given to underrepresented minorities in comparison to white applicants, but would I fall somewhere in between the two? Simply put, would affirmative action favor me more than a white applicant but less than a black/hispanic applicant, or does it work in an entirely different way?
Those are excellent schools and maybe there’s a slight hook for Asians, but again, there are more Asians than Blacks or Latinos, so why would LACs give preference to Asians over URMs if they want a diverse class? I can see stem majors because in general Asians don’t understand or appreciate the LAC model (and I doubt Asians would disagree with that), so LACs would want Asians for STEM majors.
Males do better on standardized tests, females on GPAs they take typically similar rigorous schedule, so I don’t see how, outside of LACs males have an advantage. And that is offset by females having an advantage for not only stem-focused schools like Caltech but for STEM majors in non-STEM schools like the ivies, stanford, chicago, vanderbilt, northwestern etc… And I’m not sure males get a break on academics for non-stem majors. I’d be willing to see the data on this, I know that for UCs, males or females applying to UCB’s Arts and Science college in literature have similar, top-notch stats. Stanford doesn’t look at gender at all, again unless you indicate STEM, but Stanford does not require to declare potential major.
@Amduseus I don’t know for sure, but I would guess you will count as Black or multi-racial, either counting as a URM and I would think you will get a bump from that. We have been debating if different URMs are treated differently in the process, but if Blacks get the biggest bump (which I’m not sure they do at all, this is hypothetical) then I think you would get that same bump. Either way they will count you as a URM.
@OHMomof2 Do you happen to know if there are different types of Asians as it relates to AA? I seem to remember the Pacific Islander box and just thinking some schools were really digging pretty deep into their applicants ethnicity. Wondering if some count as URM’s at some schools and some as ORM’s??? I have always wondered this. Being Asian is such a broad description. So is it possible that someone with Chinese ethnicity is treated differently in admissions than someone who is Filipino?
Kind of a classic case is that of Hmong, Cambodians, Laotians and Vietnamese, who are under-represented in US colleges. Many colleges are interested in enrolling more of them. I don’t know about Filipino students specifically, but “Pacific Islander” seems to be a category akin to Native American in college preferences. I suspect Hmong benefit from a first-gen hook more than most as well.
I don’t know if they are given preference over, say, black and Hispanic and Native American students, but rather along with them. And the bump for Asian students over white students may well be because Asian families prefer the university model that is more similar to what is desirable in their home country.
I lost you with the STEM thing, maybe you meant the opposite? I think as a group Asian students are more likely to go into STEM for a variety of reasons, but one is that many Asian students are here because their parents (or g-parents now) came on work visas that are specifically for engineers and other STEM occupations, so there is a family history in those occupations.
Perhaps it is an additional “plus factor” to be an Asian student who wants to major in creative writing or sociology or French. At a LAC it matters less than at, say, Berkeley or Michigan, since you don’t apply to a major, you apply to the college as a whole. That said, any way a student can stand out is probably good.
There are many more college-ready/qualified women applying to college, period, than men now. Admit rates for men are higher than for women at most schools now. Often they are accepted with lower test scores and GPAs, because it appears that few want to attend a school that is more than 60/40 either way. That’s where colleges begin to lose applicants.
It does go both ways, women have an advantage in a few cases.
You are whatever you say you are. I would identify as a black Hispanic in your case. I would leave out any mention of you or one of your parents being white or part white on your app.
I know that would be the most expedient way of doing things, but at the same time I really don’t want to lie by omission or anything, especially considering that most of the family I live near is on my white side.
It’s not a lie. It’s not as if you’re one of those people claiming to be a minority because they are 1/32 Native American. Yes, there are real world examples of this.
@Amduseus I don’t think you should omit white. You are legitimately black and hispanic and that will get you the URM status for AA. I thought the rule was 1/8th but I’m not sure. Sounds like you’re covered and I agree with you, you don’t want to leave out the white and risk them thinking you are trying to pull a fast one. If you are not coming from a lower socio-economic community, some schools may not care as much if you are a URM but they could figure this out with or without your admitting to being white.
I seem to remember the application asking you “which race to mostly identify with” or something like that…like “what do you actually consider yourself”. You need to be honest, and it sounds like you have every intention of being.
SES-based affirmative action would likely be seen by the general public as more “fair” than race/ethnicity-based affirmative action, as well as having a much broader reach.
However, from the colleges’ point of view, it has significant disadvantages:
- It would cost considerably more in terms of financial aid.
- SES is a much less visible indicator of diversity when colleges put photos of students on their web sites and marketing materials.
- Even when people look beyond the surface, it is likely that more people look at race/ethnicity demographics than SES demographics (% on Pell grants, etc.), so the marketing value of increasing SES diversity is not great (even if the backlash against such is less).
Funny how, on these forums, it is commonly suggested that Asian students apply to colleges with fewer Asian students, but posters here often seem to recoil in horror if a recommendation is given to a white student to consider a college with a low white population (particularly a historically black college) that otherwise fits the student’s stated criteria (cost, academics, etc.).
Since most of the “top” colleges are opaque about how they consider race and ethnicity (except those which do not consider it at all), how it matters may differ by college and is probably not knowable from outside the admissions office. These days, it also probably matters less than most outsiders assume.
You can indicate any or all that you identify with.
Well @ucbalumnus since you quoted me I suppose you’re addressing me. Let me clear something up for you.
My very white D did in fact look at Howard - at my suggestion - because it was a good fit for her in many ways.
My very Asian brother went to a LAC, where he almost certainly got a bump in admissions as he was below the 25/75 test score average.
Anything else you want to assume about me?
You appear to be an exception in this respect. Unfortunately, the general trend is the opposite.
I think the general trend is white folks don’t like to be a minority, or at least are not used to it and thus somewhat uncomfortable at the idea of being in that role.
But if a white (or Asian or black or Hispanic) student offers diversity in such a way that they get an admissions bump to a school that is otherwise a challenge for that student to get into, I’ll suggest that student consider it.
A poor white student from a farm in North Dakota or Mississippi might not be very comfy being one among a ton of urban, northeastern rich kids, but that doesn’t mean I’m not going to tell that kid that s/he’s likely to get an admissions bump at such schools and ought to consider them.
Admissions strategies that take these things into account are surely part of what this forum is for.
I agree that white people overall don’t like being the minority (and I’m white as are my children)!
For what it’s worth, one of the reasons my daughter didn’t go to Notre Dame was because it was too homogeneous…not only racially but religiously and probably politically also (and she is Catholic). Not sure this is saying much though because there are many people that wouldn’t even bother applying for these reasons. (Nothing against Notre Dame…it’s actually a fabulous place with a very welcoming environment).
For what it’s worth, I do think that even for a white person though, coming from Mississippi or North Dakota will help because it offers the school geographic diversity.
Good for you @OHMomof2 for suggesting Howard to your D. I think that is awesome.
At many schools it definitely will. At many being male helps, at a few, female. Being aware of this stuff and applying appropriately should be part of the strategy, IMO.
I used to recommend Howard to a lot of kids on CC, back when D was going through (@ucbalumnus doesn’t remember I guess) . Howard has a lot to offer anyone, including some great merit scholarships, a DC location, famous alumni, a storied history and a very diverse student body. When she was making a college list in HS I’d read this article and passed it on to her because it described exactly what she, a small town midwest kid wanting a totally different college experience, was looking for:
- College Confidential is in the article too, actually :D