<p>"From what I saw, the "coupling" was very segregated. You can't tell much from only two visits, but given the high numbers of white Lehigh students from New Jersey and Long Island, I'd put money on there not being very much interracial romantic coupling, if any."</p>
<p>Good grief. How much do you think you saw? When you dated your own wife, who you indicated was of a different race, were you glued to one another's sides all the time? How the heck could you get any sense of the dating scene from walking around? For all you know, you saw males and females who were simply friends walking to class and you assumed they were same-race couples and jumped to the conclusion that OMG-there-must-be-no-diff-race-dating-and-they'd-all-laugh-and-point-at-someone-who-does. </p>
<p>I agree with MOWC. You seem to have a real chip on your shoulder and you seem to be expecting rejection wherever you go. Being biracial and/or engaging in interracial dating simply isn't the big deal among the younger generation as it might have been 20, 30 years ago. Unless you're going to a really conservative Southern school, or a religiously-based college, who's going to blink an eye these days?</p>
<p>"Orchestramom: I think I do suffer a bit from "overprotectivedaddyism." I'd admit it. My kids mean to much to me and the last thing I want to see is my kids experiencing hurt. I'd blame myself. "</p>
<p>Oh, well, that's so different from the rest of us. None of us have kids that mean a lot to us or that we don't want to see them experiencing hurt! Get over yourself.</p>
<p>"Also, I believe that for several years Chicago had the most racially segregated neighborhoods - - so the balkanization isn't limited to the east coast."</p>
<p>Which has nothing to do with a COLLEGE ENVIRONMENT OF YOUNG PEOPLE -- because interracial dating wouldn't raise an eye on Northwestern's, U of Chicago's, or DePaul's campuses.</p>
<p>Pizzagirl, with all due respect, I think you're being a little hard on OP. I agree that this seems to be more Dad's issue here, but he never said it wasn't did he? I think he posted here for advice, and also looking perhaps for some responses from posters who might understand his particular starting point. </p>
<p>My hunch -- and I COULD BE COMPLETELY WRONG -- is what I hinted at in my post #51: I get the sense from OP's posts that there may be certain kinds of discussions with his daughter around race, and racial identity, that haven't happened in his family. His D's college search may be surfacing the need to discuss some things that have not been addressed head-on and openly. That may feel uncomfortable, and may be the source of some of his anxiety.</p>
<p>(Sorry Plainsman for putting this in the third person -- and ignore any psychobabble that doesn't apply)</p>
<p>
[quote]
but given the high numbers of white Lehigh students from New Jersey and Long Island, I'd put money on there not being very much interracial romantic coupling, if any.
[/quote]
My daughter was a freshman at Moravian, which is also in Bethlehem, last year. She dated a young black man and they were out and about in Bethlehem, Allentown, Easton all the time. Had no problems and ran into quite a few other inter-racial couples. The only racial issue they had was the animosity directed at my daughter by black women who didn't want to see a college-attending, financially-secure black man dating a white woman.</p>
<p>i have no direct experience with lehigh, but i very much understand the OP's concerns because i have spent time in central PA and it is NOT in my experience a particularly open and friendly place for racial minorities. james carville had the famous description about pennsylvania : pittsburgh in the west, philadelphia in the east, and mississippi in the middle. an overstatemnt? to be sure. but there is defintitley an element of truth here. if it were my daugher i would make certain that the she feels comfortable with the surrounding community as much as with the college itself. leave the campus bubble and whatever tolerance and open-mindedness exists on campus might disappear in a second.</p>
<p>Lehigh is in Eastern Pa. about 30 minutes from the NJ border- NOT central PA. Wish I had some input for this thread since I live about 10 minutes from Lehigh but the students tend to go into Bethlehem, not into my small town. I can say that I've never heard about any racial incidents in the newspaper.</p>
<p>The area surrounding a college is an important - - not dispositive, but important - - factor in any student's experience. The surrounding area does not set the tone or the campus, but it may supprt aspects of the campus culture that will add or detract from the schools appeal. These issues can range from the in/convenience of finding a place close to campus to get one's black hair done to general safety. </p>
<p>My D attended a camp near Juniata and Penn State. Although she was one of only 2 black campers, she loved the camp. But she hated the surrounding area - - very White, very conservative and overtly hostile to non-Whites (she reported hearling the "N" word with alarming frequency). She happily returned to the camp for a second summer( a 3 week program and like most camp programs, fairly self-contained bubble), but will not consider attending Juniata - - because she might have occasion to go off campus and into an unfriendly community (Penn State is less of an issue b/c it is so large and like the camp, self-contained).</p>
<p>I am not saying that Lehigh/Behtlehem is similar, but point out that, one should consider both the on- and off-camus cultures.</p>
<p>I wish people would stop equating "very conservative, very White" with racist.</p>
<p>I am as I was born, and can do nothing about the latter. While my own politics are the opposite of the former, the generalizations on this thread are appalling.</p>
<p>Anyone who uses a racial slur is a racist; not a "conservative"</p>
<p>It's news to me that the midwest is less racist and less balkanized than the east. I've never met a bunch of people more suspicious of anyone who is unlike them--in race, religion, education, geographical origin, you name it--than my H's family and their friends in Michigan. Of all generations.</p>
<p>I don't know if Lehigh's minority enrollment is skewed by it's large engineering school but from by unscientific observations from touring schools with large engineering departments, they have a larger than average population of white men. Engineers also seem to me to be more conservative than those that you might see at a more LAC type of college. Again these are only my opinions from having two kids looking at engineering schools and my own experiences.</p>
<p>I looked up enrollment by race/ethnicity at Case Western and Carnegie Mellon, two schools which might mirror Lehigh's. Selective schools in a urban area which have a large engineering school. Cases' AA population is 6% of undergraduates and CMU's is 4.6%.</p>
<p>It also seems to me that a child who might like Lehigh would not like Oberlin. They are very different schools with a very different student body. Also at many schools with a large Greek population there are very different sororities with a very different make up of students. There may be a sorority that has the "rich white cheerleader" type but that is not the only type on campus. There are also the sorority that has the smart girls and the athletic girls and many different types of girls.</p>
<p>Also I want to say that a school that has 40% of their women in Greek life is very different than a school which is very Greek. 60% of the women at Lehigh are not greek, Lehigh is not DePauw or Washington and Lee which I think are closer to 75-85% Greek.</p>
<p>
[quote]
I wish people would stop equating "very conservative, very White" with racist.</p>
<p>I am as I was born, and can do nothing about the latter. While my own politics are the opposite of the former, the generalizations on this thread are appalling.</p>
<p>Anyone who uses a racial slur is a racist; not a "conservative"
[/quote]
MSUDad:</p>
<p>I had the same peception as you - that some posters on this thread equate 'conservative' with 'racist'. I hope I just had a mis-perception since the assumption is absolutely incorrect.</p>
<p>
[quote]
but from by unscientific observations from touring schools with large engineering departments, they have a larger than average population of white men. Engineers also seem to me to be more conservative than those that you might see at a more LAC type of college.
[/quote]
Check out some of the engineering departments out here in the west and you'll find that the majority racial segment is Asian - not white. For gender, it's mostly male. I'm doing my part though by having two Ds in engineering.</p>
<p>MSuDand and ucsd-ucla-dad, if you are referring to my post (#69), I certainly did not intend to suggest that "conservative" is synonymous with "racist." And I didn't say that b/c the community was conservative it was, therefore, hostile to non-Whites. To the contrary, I made a point of listing 3 separate and distinct attributes, all of which happen to be present in the rural PA community where D went to camp - - that is not to say that each of those attributes could not exist independent of the others.</p>
<p>My response wasn't directed at your post 69 - it was some earlier posts. </p>
<p>
[quote]
...lily white but liberal Minnesota (we've been in PA for three years) she never heard the N word spoken by a live person...
[/quote]
</p>
<p>And there were several other posts by various posters that seem to associate 'conservative' and 'liberal' with 'a racial atmosphere' which is the OP's subject.</p>
<p>Like I said - I hope it was a mis-perception on my part.</p>
<p>Note, the OP but possibly he could be near Minneapolis St. Paul or other parts near which may be very tolerant of interracial and AA as a whole. Someone had mentioned in another CC thread about the abundance of interracial marriages out there, maybe 4/10 among AA being that way. If that is even remotely the case I'm sure that situation would be most different than what would be in the NE in general. </p>
<p>I would hope that some could be a little more empathetic to the OP. Imagine if your DD was considering a host of schools that were like some of the more prominent HCBU's. The social culture/climate would be of UTMOST concern to you all.</p>
<p>I am not more empathetic towards the OP because I think he is shoving his own fears down his daughter's throat. I am getting some of this from the "Greek" thread and the rest from this one. I think it is the OP who likes the non-Greek aspect of Oberlin and NOT the daughter. I suspect this allegedly stunning young woman would have no problem at Lehigh.</p>
<p>MOWC and others, please calm down. I did not mean to create a storm. When we moved from Minnesota (which is a lot different than Chicago or Michigan) to PA, the cultural differences were stark. The first day home from school, all three of my kids recounted witnessing numerous shocking events in the way kids interacted with each other. I'm the only member who was not born in Minnesota. I was born and grew up in New Jersey. The worst years of my life were spent in that racist state. I got out and never looked back, or so I thought. Only a career opportunity I could not refuse brought me back to the big bad East Coast. But I dreaded the move because I feared my kids making the move for reasons of cultural adaptation. </p>
<p>Perhaps my concern about Lehigh is the large number of white New Jerseyans and Long Islanders matriculated there, two groups I had nothing but problems with as a young man. It wasn't just a matter of race; people back then were very ethnocentric. Italians didn't like the Irish who didn't like the Jews and they all hated the blacks and Puerto Ricans. It was horrible! That's what I meant by "balkanization." Remember the riots in Newark (yes, I'm that old). From what I've read in the newspapers and the Internet, few things seem to have changed. </p>
<p>At Lehigh (or Lafayette or any school that attracts large numbers of New Jerseyans) I'm afraid for my D running into the children of those people who made my life miserable. And a couple of PMs I've received from AA students at Lehigh who didn't want to go public (I don't blame them) seem to confirm my fears. </p>
<p>It's frustrating. Lehigh, Lafayette, Bucknell, etc. are fine schools but conservative politically. The genuinely liberal schools in this part of the country (she's told us that she doesn't want to go far from home) like Swarthmore and Haverford are so darn hard to get into. I just don't want my D to get hurt. She didn't experience what I did growing up. She doesn't know. It'll come as a shock to her.</p>
<p>I've yet to have "THE CONVERSATION" with her, and I'm not sure I should now. So many of you think I'm a bad guy for wanting to tell her the truth.</p>