Racial Atmosphere at Lehigh--Black Parents and Students

<p>There are other schools in NE PA.</p>

<p>Muhlenberg, Moravian - nope they attract a lot of kids of German heritage
DeSales - whoops that one is Catholic
Bloomsburg - sorry, that one attracts lots of out of staters from NJ
King's College - nope, Catholic too
University of Scranton - Oh no that one is Jesuit.
Tons of colleges down in Philly but they probably get lots of kids from NJ and Philly.</p>

<p>How about Northhampton Community College?</p>

<p>Dad - get a grip. Life has changed in 30 or 40 years.
I suggest you get counseling. It will help you to deal with your past and your lovely daughter's future.</p>

<p>So you admit you are colored by your experiences from many years ago -- but you continue to paint the ENTIRE STATE of New Jersey as racist because of those experiences? Wow. Just . . wow.
Also a little disturbed by your need to tell an Internet message group that your d is a good girl in the Biblical sense . . . but maybe that's just me. She IS her own person, you know . . . not just an extension of you. Sorry if that's harsh.</p>

<p>I grew up in the northeast and am also not a fan, but I recognize that that is MY issue. I got out as soon as I could, but return frequently to visit family. However, my son went to boarding school in the northeast and chose a college in the northeast. HE made the choice and has met people of all races and with all viewpoints. I am not saying Lehigh is the right school for your daughter. However, you (and perhaps she) are limiting your choices. You don't like PA/NJ, but she "wants to go to college close to home". Home is in PA! To me, this is the first thing to change so that the search can broaden. Yes, Haverford and Swat are very selective, so you might need to look outside of the dreaded state of PA. Penn State is big- but it IS not too far from home. I have worked through enough things with my own kids to get frustrated by all the hand-wringing accompanied by the refusal to broaden one's outlook. What about Ursinus? (probably too small)</p>

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Perhaps my concern about Lehigh is the large number of white New Jerseyans and Long Islanders matriculated there, two groups I had nothing but problems with as a young man.

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<p>Don't you see that the very concept of branding people a certain way based on their ethnicity/where they're from is the exact same concept that you decry? </p>

<p>How would you react if I said that I visited a college, saw a lot of African-American students there, and said "Perhaps my concern about College X is the large number of black inner city students matriculated there, because when I was younger, I had nothing but problems with blacks"? (Please be aware that this is a hypothetical only.)</p>

<p>If you want people to take your daughter for the wonderful young lady she undoubtedly is -- and not pre-judge her based on the fact that she is biracial, or she's from Minnesota, or she's from the suburbs, or whatever -- then I think you have to do the same, and not pre-judge people based on the fact that they are white or from NJ / Long Island.</p>

<p>Plainsman, have you considered Franklin & Marshall and Dickinson?</p>

<p>Plainsman, despite the fact that you experienced racism (presumably from whites), you still married outside of your race. Why would you think your DD wouldn't be able to handle it? If you don't like Lehigh, don't apply, there are so many colleges out there.</p>

<p>Plainsman, there are PLENTY of legit liberal schools in the NE or mid-Atlantic - - Yale, Columbia, Vassar, Bard and Sarah Lawrence immeidately come to mind, and lord knows you can't get any more liberal than Wesleyan. </p>

<p>Also, b/c the mid-Atlantic (especially the metro NYC area) is a population center, MANY schools outside the mid-Atlantic enroll large numbers of students from that area - - including Oberlin. In fact, at Obi enrolls more students from the mid-Atlantic (30%) than from any other region. The mid-West comes in second with 24%.</p>

<p>You are painting with too broad a brush. </p>

<p>(FYI, if you don't like Lehigh and Lafayette, you probably won't like F&M either - - it's small, fairly isolated, fairly "Greek" and not particularly diverse.)</p>

<p>"Don't you see that the very concept of branding people a certain way based on their ethnicity/where they're from is the exact same concept that you decry?"</p>

<p>Pizzagirl, this is a good point.</p>

<p>I don't mean any malice towards the OP, but--
you want to protect your children from prejudice, but I can't help but wonder what prejudices they are learning from you.</p>

<p>Triguena: We have not considered F&M for the reasons nyc indicates in #87. She is considering Dickinson. Although since our visit, I've been told Greek Life is big time on the Dickinson campus. I'm concerned about that. I didn't notice it during our visit because it was summer and few students were on campus.</p>

<p>I find the no-Greek schools most appealing, but that's my prejudice. The problem is they seem to be the most difficult to get into. I had no idea how difficult college search was going to be. This is really hard.</p>

<p>It's not that hard to find schools that are non-Greek.</p>

<p>It IS going to be hard to find schools without those awful kids from Long Island, New Jersey and PA that she desperately needs you to protect her from. They're all over the place, unfortunately.
Just kidding. Sort of.</p>

<p>plainsman,
you may be underestmating the strength and character of your D. She should be the one directing this search with your gentle guidance. It seems that you are coloring her world with your past experience which is not fair. I live in the east and my D and her peers have less of an issue of race than our generation. She has all different ethnic and multiccultural friends. Cross dating is common and guess what? nobody cares. So you may be projecting more than really is there. You need to let go a little . You cannot protect her from everything and everyone. She will eventually be dealing with all kinds of people. By your posts, you already seem to have made up your mind about Lehigh so don't apply. There are plenty of other schools.</p>

<p>Is your daughter interested in an HBCU? Living in NoVA and also being an Army officer's wife, I have met many Howard and Hampton grads who have done very well in life. Quite a few attribute much of their success to the education that they received at these 2 schools. I would also venture to say that Spellman and Morehouse (amongst others) would also have strong alumnae/i networks.</p>

<p>I guess it depends how your daughter defines herself in terms of her ethnicity as to dating and other issues. I think you are saying she is half Cauc/half AA. Does that mean she only wants to date biracial boys? Would her mom be hurt if she dated a boy who is all African-American or would you be hurt if she dated someone clearly Caucasian? This is food for thought and obviously not something you need to answer on the internet.</p>

<p>I know you are concerned about Greeks. Even colleges with small minority demographics and strong NPC systems can and do have NPHC (historically black Greek) chapters. I am an NPC GLO member but I have always admired how the NPHC orgs have such strong alumnae involvement and commitment. With only 4 NPHC sororities, it is really easy to predict who is an AKA or a Delta even for an outsider like myself. Some of the AKAs and Deltas that I have had the pleasure of knowing are HBCU grads, many are graduates of other schools. These ladies are tireless in their support of their organizations, their roles in the African-American community, and of course to the community at large. The other 2 NPHC sororities are also tremendously involved but I don't know any members personally.</p>

<p>That being said, all NPC orgs do have minority members. We don't pledge "token" anyones, we choose the girls that best fit our chapters. As I mentioned before, even very politically conservative, very homogenous W&L happens to have 5 NPC GLOs whose memberships that are actually more diverse than the school's overall population. And yes, there are 2 NPHC sororities on that campus so it is not as if a girl is limited to NPC membership or nothing at all.</p>

<p>Your daughter's politics are her politics. Think of all the adults who came of age in the 60s who were much more liberal than their parents. Then when their kids became adults in the 80s and 90s, the Gen Xers leaned towards conservatism.</p>

<p>As has been pointed out on the Greek-life thread, I think the OP is working under assumptions that Greek life uniformly consists of lily-white girls doing lily-white things.</p>

<p>I can understand where the OP is coming from, because I'm a native Minnesotan. I have also lived in Texas and am now in Ohio. I cannot begin to explain the differences I have seen in racial interaction. Minnesota is really the ideal. While Ohio (and I would assume PA) may not be perfect, I'm sure the OP's daughter can find happiness, but will encounter some bumps in the road and it sounds like Dad is prepared to talk about them. But, Dad, I would really try and temper your discussions. It sounds like you had some very bad experiences a long time ago.</p>

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It IS going to be hard to find schools without those awful kids from Long Island, New Jersey and PA that she desperately needs you to protect her from.

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LOL!! Yes, we are stacked like cordwood in these parts. NJ kids entering the college admissions world must seem like the clown car at Barnum & Bailey. They just keep coming, and coming, and coming. And our kids are so awful that we send them all over the country just to get them out of our hair. They're coming to a school near you.....Beware!</p>

<p>Plainsman- Yes, the college search IS hard. However, usually the hardest part is that there are so MANY wonderful schools and so MANY different parts of the country that interest a student. Couple that with financial issues, selectivity of the schools etc. and it makes for a challenging, but exciting, process.<br>
When I was looking at colleges back in the day, my father basically drew a circle around Philadelphia and I was "encouraged" to look at schools at least 250 miles AWAY from home! I wound up in the midwest- 12 hours away by car- and it worked fine for all concerned.<br>
You are making the process hard for yourself and your daughter by operating from the negative instead of the positive. I have a kid who is at a top 10 college that was not portrayed as being particularly "Greek" when he visited and was in the recruiting process. It turned out to be quite Greek and he was not happy about that during his freshman year. He almost transferred. Then he decided maybe there was something to the whole thing and he considered pledging. Ultimately he decided not to, but found peace (quite nicely) with the Greek scene and still had plenty of friends who were not Greek. He sorted all this out himself.
Sometimes you have to let go of your own past and be open to what things are like today.</p>

<p>MoWC, although your S foun "peace" with the frat scene, the fact that he considered transferring shows how uncomfortable/unhappy a non- or anti-Greek student can be on a heavinly Greek campus. And for some who stay, the outcome will not be as favorable as for your S.</p>

<p>Plainsman--I understand your worry and concern. You want the best for your daughter and you don't want her to have to experience the pain that you've experienced. Racism is out there despite what people want to believe. It is an issue and because of the emotions and opinions that this topic surfaces, this is an issue in conversations that many people would rather avoid. You're doing the right thing by questioning this issue and making us all reflect on the topic. My Caucasian Long Island born and raised son left a private school in Virginia because he was disgusted by the elitist and racist attitudes of the student body. He found that the International students were the nicest kids on the campus (although there were very few of them). His Nigerian friend was harassed by kids that would show up outside his dorm room just to instigate trouble. He also hated the idea of Greek life where organizations could pick and choose their members and charge a fee to belong (kind of like buying your friends). He transferred out of the private LAC and into a Northeastern Public University. The difference is night and day (for the better).
Maybe this is an issue of Private vs. Public more than North vs. South.</p>

<p>Yeah- but it was my SON'S choice. I didn't convince him he shouldn't go to a school with a large Greek presence. And- people don't think of the Ivy schools as being particularly frat-oriented. I think people also have the misconception that being "anti-Greek" means you don't like to drink and party. This was not the case with my son. He had a (too) active social life. There were other reasons he chose not to pledge- he isn't particularly good at being subservient, for one thing!
The OP's daughter certainly doesn't have to go to a school with a large Greek presence. Oberlin sounds fine- if that is what SHE wants. It's just that the layers of criteria that the OP is placing on the ultimate college for his daughter make it very unlikely that the perceived right fit is out there. I mean- you have all the dreaded New Jersey and New York people infiltrating, too.</p>

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NJ kids entering the college admissions world must seem like the clown car at Barnum & Bailey. They just keep coming, and coming, and coming. And our kids are so awful that we send them all over the country just to get them out of our hair. They're coming to a school near you.....Beware!

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StickerShock, you may not want to hear this but there are a number of people around the country who view east coast kids negatively. Take a look at the WSJ article “From Bloomingdale's to Bloomington - Students From the East Coast Descend on Indiana University”</p>

<p>From</a> Bloomingdale's to Bloomington - WSJ.com

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As students arrived in the quaint college town last week, there was some low-key clashing of cultures. "It almost feels like something's not right here. Everyone's just so friendly," said SG, a 46-year-old attorney from East Hanover, NJ……………… be a healthy transition for their son, "coming from a city of mean rotten people who will run you over without thinking about it."

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"Hearing them speak is like listening to a car crash," wrote two students in an editorial piece in the school's newspaper, the Indiana Daily Student, one of several columns that have recently poked fun at the differences between the New York and Indiana camps………Upperclassmen say the tension begins to build from day one of freshman year, as most East Coasters request to live in the same cluster of dorms………………Sophomore MU from Dayton, Ohio, who was registering new students to vote last Wednesday, says he finds the New York City group insular, snobby and egotistical.”

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""I like when things go my way, and if something bad happens to me I'll cry all day and I'll need, like, a Xanax," she says. As for her classmates from Indiana, she says, "They seem....happier."

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