<p>I know there are kids from around here that go to Chapel Hill as OOS students so I didn't realize that their OOS acceptance % was low. I figured they would treat a high achieving OOS applicant with the same merit as a high achieving in-state applicant.</p>
<p>Good luck with your search.</p>
<p>PS--I think Muffy heard wrong because it is definitely not hard to graduate on time. With the generous AP credit policy, it's very possible to graduate early. Conditions are not awful as Muffy has suggested. I don't know where she got that one from.</p>
<p>UNC-Wilmington is just over $25,000/yr including fees/books/personal expenses--a slight bit more than the SUNY soup-to-nuts costs but a lot warmer.</p>
<p>A comment like that scares people away. If they're not graduating in 4 years from a SUNY, chances are that those same people are not going to graduate in 4 years from any college. You're going to have a much more difficult time getting into classes at the smaller LAC's than at a SUNY.</p>
<p>You can go to a PA state school for 21,270 (before scholarships) as an out of state student (inludes R&B, tuition, and fees). Here is a link to Bloomsburg University. Here is a convenient link:</p>
<p>Putting a freeze on faculty hiring would lead to fewer classes being taught, so that would mean fewer opportunities to take required classes and thus maybe not being able to take all your required courses on time to graduate in your major. The OP's article didn't say exactly what the students are most concerned about though.</p>
<p>to check how many are in fact graduating within 4 years, you can check the common data set -though not every school has them readily available at their website. i do think there is central website that compile that info, but i don't recall what it'd be. also cds's often lag in time, especially in reporting retention when they're looking at class entering several years prior.</p>
<p>numbers don't look great from this -- for the class entering in 2001, only 65% graduated in 6 years. (line B11) BUT --a) this was up from 59% for the class entering in 2000 (line B11) (b) for the class entering in 2006, 83% returned for fall 2007 (line B22) so some of the graduation rates may reflect people leaving - transferring or otherwise; d) the info for class entering in 2001 is pretty old and a lot has happened at New Paltz since then -- its become much harder to get into which may affect the number of kids coming in with AP credits and the number who stick it out and graduate "on time."</p>
<p>You need to understand that you're talking about public in state universities who have the majority of student populations on the lower end of the economic scale. Many times, these kids are working full time and trying to balance it with going to college. It may take them longer because they can't afford to attend full time without having to work full time time along with it. Some kids end up leaving for a year to earn enough money to come back--others may not be able to afford to go back at all. Let's face it. The majority of kids attending colleges with high price tags are the ones that have financial backing from their parents. To blame the undergraduate graduation rates of 4yr and 6yr statistics on an inability to get into classes is just not true. Finances and the need to leave school in order to support themselves is the big factor. You also need to factor in the fact that lower income students may be less prepared for college and find themselves overwhelmed which leads to increased dropout rates. They haven't taken AP classes, can't afford tutoring, etc. There are so many different factors that need to be taken into consideration when using graduation rate percentages.</p>
<p>Putting a freeze on hiring will not lead to fewer classes being taught. It may lead to no additional classes being taught or the number of current classes being taught will remain the same.</p>
<p>I agree with NYSMILES on this, off-hand I dont know of any cases of a SUNY student who could not graduate in 4 years due to being locked out of courses. I believe theses days the national average for college graduation is around 4.9 years, so this is not just a SUNY thing. While being locked out of a course does occasionally happen most people either are able to take it a following semester or in a summer program. As NYSMILES pointed out, there are more significant reasons why students dont graduate within 4 years. Such as working off campus jobs during the semester to support themselves, which is more evident at some of the SUNYs then lets say Harvard. Also its not uncommon that people screw up and fail courses or decide to change majors and /or switch schools which in many cases will delay graduation. I would think those reasons are the more prominent ones. I dont believe you have any less of a chance on average of graduating at a SUNY in 4 years then any OOS public or private college.</p>
<p>SUNY has a very extensive selection of on line courses. So I think it would be easy to complete one's degree in the 4 year period if one chooses to do so. My d recently decided to minor in communication studies at Cortland. As she may be on campus for only 2 more semesters (she hopefully will do a semester Internship her senior year) I was concerned she may not be able to get all the necessary communication courses in during that time. I just checked the on line offerings this AM and I was really quite thrilled with the selection. SUNY has a winter session from mid Dec. to mid January during the time the kids are on semester break. So it gives them the opportunity to take on line courses at that time. They can probably also take an online class during the regular semester if the class is not offered at their home school or if they are closed out of a class due to overenrollment.
Point is- Don't overlook the SUNY on-line classes as it probably can help one graduate on time and will give them more choices.</p>
<p>nysmile, you're overlooking the obvious. A hiring freeze may not decrease the number of classes being taught, but it can certainly decrease the number of classes available to a given student if the student body is increasing in size without a commeasurate increase in instructors. That's exactly what has happened at my school.</p>
<p>You may not know any people who had trouble graduating on time because of lack of course availability, but I know dozens. Of course student demographics affect graduation rates, but didn't it ever occur to you that a student who's working their way through school is more likely to have to drop out if they can't get into sections of required courses that don't conflict with their work schedule?</p>
<p>I'm sure the situation varies across the SUNY system, but your reasoning is flawed.</p>
<p>As for this vote being representative of student desires... I have to laugh, knowing how ridiculously stupid many of our student government presidents have been. It's not like we're talking about a system-wide referendum here; take this vote with the large grain of salt it deserves.</p>
<p>marny, this is helpful information for those who are willing to pay extra for the online options. It might be a wise decision to take advantage of some of those opportunities.</p>
<p>Re: Pseudonym
The colleges may become more selective in the applicants that they offer acceptances. While doing this, they may cap the number of incoming freshmen. These two actions alone will reduce the likelihood of your scenario--smaller and more highly qualified freshmen class, no significant increase in student population, number of class sections remain the same, higher retention rates based on more highly qualified students entering the college.</p>
<p>As far as the times of course sections not allowing a student to juggle a job along with it--that has nothing to do with funding. It's not the college's responsibility to adjust their course offerings to a student's job schedule. There are evening courses, Saturday courses, and online courses (which do not cost extra money over the usual tuition during the normal semester timeframe). Plenty of students are able to schedule classes that do allow them to work. I'm sure there are plenty of students who can't. That's something for the student to work out--not the school. Work does factor into the % of students graduating on time as I previously mentioned. Some students must cut back on the number of classes they take per semester in order to fit in time for outside employment. It's not the school's fault but rather the financial state of the student.</p>
<p>Also, students are responsible for following a registration schedule--meet with advisor, register at a certain time slot. If a student doesn't take the initiative to meet with their advisor early but instead waits until the last day of their registration time slot, of course they are going to have a harder time getting into their first choice classes. This reason isn't limited to SUNY's but to all colleges.</p>
<p>Which SUNY are you referring to where you can't get into classes? What major are you referring to?</p>
<p>Are some classes closed out because seniors hold slots for other students, drop the slot and underclass friend immediately takes that slot? I have heard this happening at some public schools where seniors have priority. It is not allowed, but still happens. Also, I wonder how many slots open up a day before the semester begins when some students take a semester off, change schedules, and change majors. If registration happens online, perhaps one can get into a closed slot if one searches online a couple of times per day a week before classes begin, and a few days into the new semester. Does anyone know?</p>
<p>"If registration happens online, perhaps one can get into a closed slot if one searches online a couple of times per day a week before classes begin, and a few days into the new semester. Does anyone know?"</p>
<p>Yes, this is exactly what kids do if they find themselves closed out of 1st choice section. In addition, from our experience, professors and the registrar are very flexible and allow for over-rides---explain to the registrar why you need that particular time slot, go the professor of the class section that the student needs in order to fit into his/her schedule and ask him/her to sign an over-ride allowing the student to register for the class. Although a class may have 30 slots available, if a student needs it for their major and it's the only section that the student can fit into his schedule, it's very common for the professor to allow a few extra kids above the cut-off to join the class. Also, kids often times drop classes after the first couple of days thus opening up more spots. Another wise thing that kids do is register for 6 classes rather than the typical 5 and then later decide on which class they should drop. </p>
<p>I've never heard of upperclassmen holding classes for underclassmen. Registration is so random online, I don't know if this would even be possible when you're talking about thousands of kids registering at different times. In addition, you can place yourself on a waitlist. The online service will register the next available open slot to the next one on the waitlist. S has never had to do this.</p>
<p>If your kid is willing to give you his login information, a parent can actually enter the website. This is handy if your kid has class on the first day of his registration time slot. You can log in while the kid is at class. I'd rather have my S work it out on his own but it is an option.</p>
<p>S has never been had a problem not getting his classes. He might have had to register for his 2nd or 3rd choice of section time but never has he been prevented from getting into a course. In other words, he may not have been able to get into the 1:00 class of Intro to Law but he was able to get into the 3:30 class of Intro to Law.</p>
<p>nysmile, did you even read what I wrote? I'm not talking about a hypothetical, I'm talking about what is already happening. Not to mention, you ignore the obvious incentive that exists to not cap admit numbers to keep class sizes reasonable--more students = more tuition. Again, I'm not speaking for the whole SUNY system, but this is the choice that's been made at at least the SUNY I go to in the face of budget cuts. You're wrong.</p>
<p>Number of sections available has EVERYTHING to do with funding. If 800 students need a particular course this semester to move forward with their course requirements on time but the money doesn't exist to pay enough instructors to teach enough sections to accomodate more than 600, what do you think happens to the other 200 people? If the student demand exists to offer two sections of a required course but the budget is only there for one, what do you think happens? If you multiply this issue out over an entire university, don't you realize this means more conflicts, a more difficult time scheduling, and more people getting shut out of classes they need to take to keep on track?</p>
<p>You're being ridiculously trivializing and insulting. Yes, people have to take care of their own obligations to register on time. Yes, sometimes you can get a professor to let more people in or wait for someone to drop. It's not enough, and I'm not talking about scenarios like your son's where boohoo, you have to take a different section. What if there isn't another section? What if there aren't enough chairs or computers or lab benches? This problem exists already. Why are you so hell bent on insisting people must be screwing up in order to have problems like this?</p>
<p>I go to Stony Brook, which is an excellent school with some major resource problems right now. I've received an excellent education. It would have been better if there were enough slots in chem lab for everyone who needed them, enough slots in intro bio for everyone who needed them (without having to SIMULCAST a lecture in the two biggest lecture halls on campus rather than paying more instructors), enough upper division bio, psych, and English courses so that some of them had available spots past the first few hours of registration. </p>
<p>I'm pretty experienced at wheedling my way into full classes and stalking the system for that one person to drop. I register when my enrollment appointment starts, even when I have class or work or it's at 6am. And like I said before, I know dozens of people who, without screwing up, found themselves trapped and unable to graduate on time because not enough courses or sections were offered.</p>
<p>Stony Brook has had problems forever. It's a mad house there but that's not the way it is at the majority of other SUNY's. Generally speaking, the academic advisement at Stony Brook isn't known to be very good and often times forces students to fend for themselves. It does sound as though you're frustrated about your current situation but it also sounds as though you've had the strength to fight through the red tapes and figure out a way to progress on with your major. My post was not insulting and wasn't directed to you. It was to inform parents that it is the student's responsibility to initiate the registration process and if the student waits until the last minute, it will make getting into the student's first or second or even third choice of section much more difficult. </p>
<p>Unlike Stony Brook, the smaller SUNY's have a more LAC feel to them. Registration is simple, academic advisement readily available, and the ability to graduate on time is much less of a problem. With the availability of online courses, night class sections, winter session classes, summer session class, and generous AP credit policy, it's very doable at the smaller SUNY's to complete a Bachelor's degree in less than 4 years. Many kids however, decide to stay and use the extra time to double major, intern, minor, or study abroad.</p>