<p>kharatos,
It looks like you knew mostly about HYPSM, a few major colleges in your region (UCB, UCLA) and a couple of other colleges that are probably prominent in your area of academic interest or have some importance to someone in your personal inner circle. Sounds completely normal to me.</p>
<p>Sort of like if you asked the kid in Dallas, he would say HYPSM and then U Texas and Rice and maybe another Texas college or two and maybe one or two others that he had an interest in. </p>
<p>Or the kid in Chicago who would likely also say HYPSM and then add places like U Chicago, Northwestern, Notre Dame, Wash U, U Illinois, U Michigan, U Wisconsin.</p>
<p>Or the kid in Atlanta who might also say HYPSM and then add places like Duke, Emory, Vanderbilt, U Virginia, U North Carolina.</p>
<p>Yup, completely true on all accounts. Mom's a doctor and I'm a computer nut. I suspect this is the way it works for many regions/people, which is one of the reasons why I agree with the point of view that any kind of ranking is just silly other than to inform people of what colleges there are that they might have never knew about. Beyond that, it's kind of a moot-point for any tier-1 US colleges.</p>
<p>For example, I never knew about the University of Washington in Seattle until early this year, and after some careful research into the institution and its surroundings, It's become one of my most interested schools for any future pursuit of further education. I could care less that it's ranked lower than a whole bunch of schools, it seems like the perfect place to be to me.</p>
<p>I think it's a given, unfortunately, that people who live on the two coasts tend to give short shrift to schools in the midwest and south. It's not that there'nt aren't fantastic places like WUSTL and Emory and Vandy (and Davidson and Sewanee and W&L if they're looking for LACs.) It's just that the general rap about these places is that they are mostly for people who want to settle in those regions of the country after they graduate.</p>
<p>johnwesley,
I think you are right about the postgraduate living results being influenced a lot by geography although most of the elite schools try hard to sell us on the idea of their having a national student population and alumni base. I think you will find that the student populations at some of these schools are more diversified than you might expect. But I would agree that being a “local” does confer some advantages. </p>
<p>To varying degrees these schools now have national student profiles, but if anyone thinks that a student from Vanderbilt or Emory or Wash U is going to have an equal likelihood to get on Wall Street (in NYC) as someone from Columbia, they are kidding themselves. Not that the Vanderbilt/Emory/WashU student can’t reach this goal (it happens all the time), but the Columbia student is more likely from the Northeast (about 25% of Columbia’s class is from NY state alone) and also more likely to settle in the Northeast after college. That has its advantages from a general familiarity with the local landscape to a larger established professional network to tap into. It’s not a quality of student issue as there are great students at all of these schools, but there is something to be said for geographic proximity and Columbia would clearly hold the opening edge in Wall Street recruiting battles in New York City.</p>
<p>brownplease,
Your handle led me to misinterpret your remarks. Sorry.</p>
<p>in a discussion about ivies (the importance of prestige in college), my friend related to me two personal anecdotes from his life:</p>
<p>*his sister went to upenn and graduated with a regular degree in nursing. She is making over a $100,000 now, less than a year out of college in a hosp in phillie.</p>
<p>*his cousin graduated from yale (business school , I think), and was offered a $175,000 job on graduating.</p>
<p>That has got to be, to a signficant extent, due to prestige of the school.</p>
<p>^^ I think that's very rare. Generally, if you compare the average starting salaries for different majors at different colleges, they're virtually the same.</p>
<p>Actually, I think it's a result of the friend's sister having a pre-professional degree. At Cornell, graduates of the hotel school have the highest paying jobs right out of graduation, because they are prepared to enter the career track.</p>
<p>Also, money and prestige of job don't always go togetherm as prestige of job and prestige of college don't always go together, either. One of the most challenging job markets is that of college professors-- tenure-track professors at any college or university don't make all that much money, but hold extremely prestigious, coveted jobs. The job market for professors is so tight that even a PhD from a prestigious university won't help you land a position.</p>
<ol>
<li>University of Chicago</li>
<li>Princeton University</li>
<li>California Institute of Technology</li>
<li>Massachusetts Institute of Technology</li>
<li>Columbia University</li>
<li>Harvard University</li>
<li>University of California, Berkeley</li>
<li>Stanford University</li>
<li>Johns Hopkins University</li>
<li>Cornell University</li>
</ol>
<p>Lots and lots of NY kids go to school at Emory and WashU. Vanderbilt is moving up there with New Yorkers, too. Long Island, Westchester, and many NYC privates send kids to these schools, as well as some top city publics. These young people generally return to New York, where their degrees are very respected by employers, including Wall Street. No employment problem for kids coming from those schools, here in NY.</p>
<p>To me, prestige implies name recognition, history, accomplishment, and credibility. Though most of the LAC's are indeed "prestigious" they have little street cred. A place like Williams is not even in the same league with say a Tulane or Vanderbilt even though it may be a better school. I also think a school is prestigious based on the percentage of applicants admitted, excluding the lesser known schools. With all this said, I'm going to post a more modified list:</p>
<ol>
<li>Harvard University</li>
<li>Yale University</li>
<li>Princeton University</li>
<li>Stanford University</li>
<li>Massachusetts Institute of Technology</li>
<li>Duke University
7.. Brown University
8.. U.S. Military Academy (West Point)
9.. Notre Dame</li>
<li>UPenn (or Penn State to most people)</li>
<li>U.S. Naval Academy (Annapolis)</li>
<li>Georgetown University</li>
<li>Columbia University</li>
<li>Cornell Universtiy</li>
<li>UCLA</li>
<li>Dartmouth</li>
<li>Berkeley</li>
<li>Northwestern</li>
<li>Johns Hopkins</li>
<li>NYU</li>
</ol>
<p>
[quote]
Though most of the LAC's are indeed "prestigious" they have little street cred.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>I don't understand how you can say that, yet you place Annapolis ahead of schools like Johns Hopkins, Berkeley, UCLA, Cornell, and Columbia, especially since your criteria are supposedly "name recognition, history, accomplishment, and credibility." All five of those fit the bill much better than, say, Annapolis.</p>
<p>There is some variation, with the top schools, Wharton, Sloan, Haas at 52+, while others are down to 35K, but location is just as important as rank (a TTT like Fordham is near the top).</p>
<p>gonavyxc - "Though most of the LAC's are indeed "prestigious" they have little street cred."</p>
<p>that's becuz most ppl on the street are looking for quick returns on their investments; that means: engineering, investment banking, any kind of pre-professional degree up to and including careers in professional sports. I've even heard ppl at college fairs ask, how they can become t.v. weathermen? </p>
<p>Liberal arts colleges attract a different crowd: the ppl who train to take over the levers of culture, knowledge and information. They're in a definite minority because, frankly, if everybody could write or think well, there'd be no need for doctors, lawyers, writers and, research scientists.</p>
<p>Harvard
Princeton & Yale
MIT, Stanford, Duke
Cornell, Brown, Columbia, Dartmouth
Notre Dame, Georgetown, Boston College
JHU, UVA, Northwestern, Berkeley, UMICH</p>
<p>I left schools out that might seem obvious to other people but this is what my perception is of the mind of an average adult in CT. Boston College is definitely more prestigious here then UC-Berkeley or any other public school. Most LACs are more prestigious here then UChicago.</p>
<p>^^^BC is more prestigious the Berkeley?? Come on. I doubt that yo be true in CT nor anywhere else in the US. Berkeley is deff not just a regional public school. To the average adult the Berkeley name carries much much more weight than the Boston College. Even in Boston Colleges' back yard, the east coast, BC is no where near as prestigious as Berkeley to the common man or the academic scholar. They are not even considered as overall universities to be in the same league. And this goes for name rec for not only academics and scholars, but also ordinary adults. The Berkeley name simply carries far better on the east coast, west coast, internationally, etc. than BC, and for good reason. I think this is quite obvious.</p>
<p>ucchris,
UC Berkeley is an excellent state university with very high brand power in the West and outside of the US. However, let's not forget that it is an institution that is much better recognized for its graduate school strength and 94% of its 23,000+ undergraduates come from the state of California. I think you overrate its power for undergraduate education outside of those areas and particularly in non-academic circles. For public universities, in the East and in the South, IMO U Virginia would have greater brand prestige. </p>
<p>Boston College, in the Northeast, is stronger than you realize. BC's student profile has been vastly upgraded over the last decade and now statistically compares very well with that of UC Berkeley. From an NE employer perspective, I suspect that BC would have every bit as much power as UC Berkeley. Within academia, however, I would agree that UC Berkeley has greater prestige and this is probably true even in the NE. It is also true that academia has shown itself to be historically very hostile to religiously affiliated colleges. BC is a wonderful (and IMO very underrated on CC) college and its students and graduates have nothing to apologize for in comparisons with UCB.</p>