<p>How would you compare the Penn College of Arts and Sciences to other arts and sciences programs in the ivy league?
If you could rank them......</p>
<p>HYP
The Rest.</p>
<p>Okay...how about if somebody could rank "the rest" as that is what I asked about that would be great, thanks</p>
<p>HYP
Dartmouth/Columbia College/Penn CAS/Brown
Cornell CAS</p>
<p>I put Cornell CAS on the bottom simply because any student at Cornell can easily transfer into that school with virtually little effort. I have many relatives/family members that attended and all said that as long as you have a 3.0, you have over a 90 percent chance of getting admitted to CAS as an internal transfer. Thus, the fact that one can gain entry into Cornell through ILR/Agriculture, etc and then can internal transfer to CAS makes CAS the least selective. In addition, from the school's own statistics, CAS has a yield rate around 39-40 percent. I can provide a link if people question that. No other ivy has such a low yield rate for CAS.</p>
<p>That suggests that Cornell CAS is the least desirable CAS school of the ivies. And if one were to call Penn's CAS yield into question, all I can say is that Wharton only comprises 1/4 of Penn. Excluding Wharton's yield of over 70 percent, Penn CAS must have a yield that is around 55 percent since Penn overall has a yield rate close to 66 percent. CAS comprises a big part of Penn.</p>
<p>I would actually place Cornell's CAS on a par with Penn's CAS in terms of academic programs. Cornell has an exceptionally strong English and creative writing department, as well as excellent programs in biology and economics, and many of the best students at Cornell are in CAS. Penn is also good, but I believe that the Wharton program is by far the most well-known and best Penn program and that many of the most qualified Penn students are in, or aspire to be in, Wharton.</p>
<p>midatlmom- I disagree with that. The Wharton students are very qualified, obviously, but most of the Penn students who are NOT In Wharton don't have any regrets about not being there. In fact, my son has a number of classmates who are trying to get OUT of Wharton. It's a different type of college education- and not for everyone. Not being in Wharton is no reflection on one's capabilities as a student or scholar. In fact, in my son's opinion, Wharton is the death of intellectualism.</p>
<p>I concur with MOWC. My D is very happy to be in Penn CAS and, believe me, she has no desire to be in Wharton...I can't even convince her to take a Wharton course or two even on a pass/fail basis...</p>
<p>Harvard Yale Princeton</p>
<p>Then the rest - though this is obvious.</p>
<p>Sorry, I didn't mean to cast aspersions on Penn CAS. It's an excellent school with great students. I just happen to think that Cornell CAS is also an excellent school with great students and I don't agree with other posters that it is somehow the least desirable of the ivies.</p>
<p>"In fact, in my son's opinion, Wharton is the death of intellectualism."</p>
<p>The... death... really???? What random humanities program is he in???? :rolleyes:</p>
<p>"but most of the Penn students who are NOT In Wharton don't have any regrets about not being there."</p>
<p>-There's quite a sizable portion of them who do though....</p>
<p>
[quote]
That suggests that Cornell CAS is the least desirable CAS school of the ivies
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Desirability should not be a critical factor when determining the strength of a program or school. There is no reason to suspect that Cornell CAS is inherently any weaker than Penn CAS, and a similar argument could be made when comparing Cornell CAS to other ivy undergraduate colleges.</p>
<p>In terms of prestige of CAS division only:</p>
<p>H/Y/P </p>
<p>Columbia College</p>
<p>Dartmouth (College)
Penn CAS</p>
<p>Brown
Cornell CAS</p>
<p>This is based on selectivity (admit rate), cross-admit rates (desirability), graduate school placement (harvard/yale law school + banking are the lists that I've seen) and general sense of Prestige.</p>
<p>Cornell CAS's Yield is under 40 percent!!!!!! </p>
<p>That means something considering that every other ivy is above 50 percent.</p>
<p>Cornell CAS (supposedly the gem of cornell) has an acceptance rate ABOVE 17 percent. Penn/Dartmouth/Columbia/Brown are all below 16 percent.</p>
<p>I think it's important to define what the OP means by "rank". It's pretty ambiguous. If by prestige, my list 2 posts above (based again on general prestige, selectivity, grad/job placement):</p>
<p>"H/Y/P </p>
<p>Columbia College</p>
<p>Dartmouth (College)
Penn CAS</p>
<p>Brown
Cornell CAS"</p>
<p>stands. However, in terms of ACADEMIC OPPORTUNITIES, there are MARGINAL differences at best between Cornell and Harvard. No grad school (not the same for business) will discriminate on the basis of H v Cornell alone--- it'll depend on the other factors. That said, the AVERAGE Harvard student > average Cornell student.</p>
<p>Admit rates for the colleges this year:</p>
<ol>
<li>Columbia College (8.9%)</li>
<li>Harvard College (9.0%)</li>
<li>Princeton (9.4%)</li>
<li>Yale (9.6%)</li>
<li>Brown (13.5%)</li>
<li>Dartmouth (15.3%)</li>
<li>Penn CAS (n/a ~ 18%)</li>
<li>Cornell CAS (n/a~ 20%)</li>
</ol>
<p>"Cornell CAS's Yield is under 40 percent!!!!!!"</p>
<p>-Do you even know what yield measures? Could you tell me how the factors that create a yield could in any way make Cornell CAS "worse" than her peers?</p>
<p>I am well aware of what yield measures. It precisely measures desirability and correlates with prestige. I am not arguing that Cornell is "worse" than its peers. The poster asked for a ranking which implies a ranking that is based on people's perception of the ivy cas schools. With that said, the fact that Cornell CAS has a yield below 40 percent whereas every other ivy cas has a yield above 50 percent suggests that Cornell CAS is perceived at least by students as the "bottom" ivy, which is still an accomplishment in itself.</p>
<p>Not that I completely endorse yield as a great measure of academic quality due to certain practices like yield protection ::cough PENN cough:: BUT-</p>
<p>It can be argued very persuasively that yield is more or less directly proportional to the "desirability/prestige" of a University. Much in the same way that 95% of Harvard-Cornell cross admits choose Harvard, Cornell loses this cross-admit battle to every other Ivy in addition to several top tier non-ivies (MIT, Stanford, Duke). The result is that the most qualified admitted students, arguably most talented as well, end up matriculating at schools with higher yields. In the end, you're left with the students who are A) Has Cornell as their #1 choice and would go over any other University in the country (they exist, but not in great amounts), and B) didn't get into a more "prestigious" university.</p>
<p>Again, yield says nothing about the University's resources itself-- but it does speak as to the University's desirability and aggregate talent of the student body. And go to any magnet high school today, chances are you'll find kids using Cornell as an Ivy-safety, or at least they apply with that mentality. Will this change in the near future? Sure, completely possible. In fact, just 10-13 years ago Penn was ranked #15-16 on USNews before it revamped its admissions practices which despite the fact that many consider these changes to be controversial, has done wonders for its prestige. </p>
<p>And let's not forget--- on a University (by that i mean graduate school) level, Cornell easily trumps Dartmouth and Brown, and is commensurate at the very least, if not better than Princeton (of course Prineton notoriously lacks any truly prestigious grad programs). The "major" Ivy research powerhouses are in this order:</p>
<ol>
<li>Harvard</li>
<li>Columbia (in terms of Research-Nobel Prizes, Columbia Law, Journalism--- marginally more prestige than Penn)</li>
<li>Penn (Penn has higher ranked Medical + Wharton)</li>
<li>Cornell (in terms of academic research) </li>
<li>Yale (in terms of professional schools i.e YLS)</li>
</ol>
<p>Personally I think Penn and Columbia are going to become very big competitors in the next decade or so as Penn's graduate programs are more or less equal to Columbia's. Penn's undergrads (excluding wharton) are slightly lagging behind Columbia's but quickly catching up. Penn has a lot more alumni support currently. Philly needs to be cleaned up though.</p>
<p>"I am well aware of what yield measures. It precisely measures desirability and correlates with prestige."</p>
<p>It does not "precisely" measure desirability. </p>
<p>"I am not arguing that Cornell is "worse" than its peers. The poster asked for a ranking which implies a ranking that is based on people's perception of the ivy cas schools."</p>
<p>-So, YOUR perception thus has to be that Cornell is worse than the rest, correct? </p>
<p>"With that said, the fact that Cornell CAS has a yield below 40 percent whereas every other ivy cas has a yield above 50 percent suggests that Cornell CAS is perceived at least by students as the "bottom" ivy"</p>
<p>-You're just making stuff up now.</p>
<p>"but it does speak as to the University's desirability and aggregate talent of the student body."</p>
<p>Not really.... yield protection and small class sizes give a high yield. If Cornell accepted a larger number of its ED applicants (heck, say even 100%), and had a smaller freshman class, then its yield would rise, plain and simple. </p>
<p>The "talent" of the student body (as measured by SAT scores) would almost certainly drop, even while the yield rises. Thus, in such a case, a higher yield would give Cornell CAS a LESS statistically accomplished student body.</p>