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American is hardly a brand name beyond one sporadic program here or there.
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<p>I'm really trying to get to the bottom of this "tier" debate because I don't quite understand how people rank programs in their minds - perhaps much like they did in undergrad? I'm not saying you should go to American if you want a PhD in Chem Eng, but SIS is a strong school and I haven't noticed current students or graduates having employment trouble or networking woes. And yes, some current students have turned down Gtown and SIPA. </p>
<p>From what I understand about the program at Gtown, you go for the MSFS and then choose ID as your concentration later on. At SIS, you start off in ID from the get-go. The ID program offers (besides ID courses) skills institutes, summer institutes abroad (there's a particularly strong one in Johannesburg), summer training institutes in DC, etc. However, having work experience in the ID field is preferred - most students come in with a year or two of working either at an NGO or in the field abroad.</p>
<p>At Georgetown MSFS, kigali is somewhat correct. You're getting a degree in foreign service, which is essentially international affairs. So your first semester will be core courses related to int'l finance, trade, globalization, and int'l relations theory. But after that, you can do all development if you want.</p>
<p>So I see how that is different from American's I-Dev program. It depends on whether you want to specialize in development or if you are a generalist whose concentration is in that area.</p>
<p>But overall, I'd agree that the most important factor is to be in DC, if you want to do development. It affects the types of professors you'll have, and the internships and summer jobs and contacts you get during your stay there. </p>
<p>Brand name is secondary in my mind, but I've certainly met plenty of people who absolutely refused to consider anything else besides Harvard MPA/ID.</p>
<p>It depends on the admissions committee. More work experience will help, for sure. If you have less work experience, then you might want to apply to more schools so that you have more of a random chance of catching someone's eye in another part of your application.</p>
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Brand name is secondary in my mind, but I've certainly met plenty of people who absolutely refused to consider anything else besides Harvard MPA/ID.
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<p>To me, that would be a sign that they never really managed to leave behind a pre-college undergrad applicant frame of mind/reference. </p>
<p>Of course, it also largely depends on what criteria are most important for you and what sort of program/atmosphere you'd feel most comfortable in.</p>
<p>American has zero recognition outside of the US. Perhaps not a stellar recognition even within the US. One goes to school to associate with a top tier alumni and as close as one can get to the elite circle. That's where the tiering comes from.</p>
Brand name is secondary in my mind, but I've certainly met plenty of people who absolutely refused to consider anything else besides Harvard MPA/ID.
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<p>That's because Harvard keeps opening doors deep into one's career. The alumni network, the clout, everything. Mention the name and people know where you've been. We're discussing degrees and colleges on this forum so we tend to know the general rankings, but consider that in Asia and Europe people may not even know about Tufts or JHU. I'd do a Masters from Stanford, Columbia, UPenn, Berkeley, or Yale in a heartbeat because they will give me recognition anywhere. Frankly, the course list and the quality of professors is not a great departure from school to school.</p>
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American has zero recognition outside of the US. Perhaps not a stellar recognition even within the US. One goes to school to associate with a top tier alumni and as close as one can get to the elite circle. That's where the tiering comes from.
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<p>Whoah, what a sweeping generalization. Some people, as hard as this may be to believe, have other motives behind going to graduate school. I wanted to learn, to acquire new skills and to study what I love. Wowing people with the name of the school I went to is the least of my concerns.</p>
I wanted to learn, to acquire new skills and to study what I love. Wowing people with the name of the school I went to is the least of my concerns.
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<p>Sure, whatever works for you. Try not to pour this schmaltz into your application essays though. Adcom at big schools will see right through it. At American, this line of reasoning would do fine. I truly wanted to go to Podunk University because a couple of profs are amazing, but that's all I care about because I am not really a long range thinker and I just don't get all these people clamoring for top spots at top univs! (Sorry, I just don't buy what you said, but different strokes for diff folks I guess -- good luck with whatever you decide!)</p>
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Try not to pour this schmaltz into your application essays though. Adcom at big schools will see right through it.
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<p>Thanks for the advice, but I'm already a graduate student :)</p>
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I truly wanted to go to Podunk University because a couple of profs are amazing, but that's all I care about because I am not really a long range thinker and I just don't get all these people clamoring for top spots at top univs!
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<p>American (for example) = Podunk? </p>
<p>I put a lot of thought into both the application process and the ultimate decision, and I picked the perfect package for myself - rigorous academics, a challenging environment, excellent recruitment/employment stats and the perfect program that matched my interests to a T. Believe it or not, not everybody wants an MPA, nor does everybody want to go to Harvard. It's ultimately up to each person to decide exactly what they want out of a graduate program, and if people do want a Harvard (..., etc) degree, more power to them.</p>
<p>If you're American and wish to work in America, then sure by all means feel free to choose whatever works for you. A person living in LA may choose USC or UCLA purely due to geographical reasons and the clear career intent of working in the same neighborhood. </p>
<p>Most importantly, I did not mean to belittle any university. Podunk was merely an illustration of the (often misplaced) notion that a great deal of learning will happen during the course and that's the intent regardless of what happens after it. </p>
<p>From a global perspective, yes, Podunk = American. As I said American has zero brand recognition. Not sure if I quite captured it with clarity when I said "zero". </p>
<p>And yes, I'll maintain that whether you're in the US or elsewhere, going to the best school you can and associating with the best network you can, will yield long term rewards. The top universities have maintained their clout and presence for very sound reasons. We won't see HYP, Stanford, Columbia, etc displaced in our lifetime. Part of that reason is the sheer number of doors these names will keep opening throughout one's career -- professionally, socially. </p>
<p>Of course, if you're really talented then American U or something else may get you a solid start and then you can be your own destiny's master, and so on. But as a principle it still holds that one should try to get into one's favor all that one can. Especially if one is spending two solid years and a significant chunk of change on the endeavor. </p>
<p>I'm cynical. I know. Life experiences. Good luck at AU!</p>
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But as a principle it still holds that one should try to get into one's favor all that one can. Especially if one is spending two solid years and a significant chunk of change on the endeavor.
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<p>Sure, and I agree - obviously brand names yield brand recognition, it'd be foolish to argue with that. My point is that people DO choose schools for other reasons, and not everyone wants to go to HYPS etc. Graduate school, particularly in an educational system where non-HYPS schools have yielded highly successful graduates from highly selective field-specific programs, is a bit different from undergrad in the sense that the program itself tends to matter more than just the name of the school. Hence the (widely criticized, I know) FP rankings, where academics and professionals ranked Yale 15th, for instance... SIS placed 8th. Not saying you should choose a school based solely on the FP rankings, but in terms of brand recognition, SIS as a school isn't doing too poorly for itself. </p>
<p>I know people with LSE MScs temping in DC five years after earning their degree... it would be silly to assume that LSE is a bad school or doesn't have "brand recognition", right?</p>
<p>Ah, name brand in IR programs. It's like arguing if Diet Coke tastes better than Diet Pepsi, throwing in Diet RC for fun. Honestly, guys... I know a number of people with IR degrees from a variety of schools (mostly the "top 10"), and ultimately I have found little correlation (anecdotally, mind you) between the schools and success. This may or may not be substantiated by the data, but I don't have that off hand.</p>
<p>In any case, I suggest this to all the IR degree people: don't pay for your degrees. The return on investment (ROI) rarely exceeds $0.</p>
<p>UCLAri nailed it on the head. It's an IR degree--it doesn't matter if you went to Harvard or State U, if you actually want to work in IR, you're probably gonna be in the poorhouse. What a Harvard MPA/ID can do that a IR degree from Stat U can't is get you into private sector jobs working for hedge funds or what not, but if that's ultimately what you want to do, why not just get an MBA or an MA in finance?</p>
<p>Being in the poorhouse is still better than being unemployed. I suspect that if I'd chosen a school offering a full scholarship (I think Emporia State would've welcomed me with open arms, for instance), I'd have even more trouble digging myself out of the tremendous hole my questionable undergraduate background placed me in career-wise (by cover letter #400 after undergrad, I threw in the towel and went to work on my SOP). And yes, it does matter where you went to school in IR in terms of access to employers, networking and all that jazz.</p>
<p>As enticing as mooching off my parents for the rest of my life sounds, I'll have to pass.</p>
<p>Considering that the hedge funds and i-banks will probably not be what they were "pre-2008," I suspect that we'll see fewer IR MAs going into the fields. For one, the tightening of the job market will inevitably mean that it will become even MORE competitive to obtain one of those positions, and that will probably make it even less likely for the MA IRs. </p>
<p>As for "the poorhouse," I don't know that that's entirely accurate. Most of the people I know who finished in my year (myself included) aren't raking in the big bucks, but we're by no means poor. Let's say that I live a comfortable life in one of the cities outside of NYC and enjoy a few treats here and there.</p>
<p>Kigali,</p>
<p>The networking helps, but trust me that it didn't really make or break me. Also, if you JUST graduated from undergrad and are despairing getting a job, you may want to consider that it's not you but the market as a whole. I know at least a few recent UCLA grads (econ/biz econ) who are having a tough time finding gainful employment. Everyone's hurting.</p>
<p>No, this was last year when the market seemed to be alright. I'm happy where I am right now and the job prospects seem pretty good, so I'm not worried - even if I'm paying for the MA, at least I'll get somewhere in life :)</p>
<p>so I opened my own thread elsewhere but it seems I just have just posted here. I'm looking to change my career path from what I had originally intended. I'm in my last year of undergrad at Arizona State. I'm triple majoring in History, Art History, and French, have also taken German and will have taken a little Arabic or Farsi. I have a 3.9 GPA and am Phi Beta Kappa. I want to eventually be an intel analyst for the CIA, but I have no idea how to get there.
1. I'm wondering if a Master's in IR/A is the right way to go. I also see by many people's posts that work experience seems to be necessary.
2. I'm also wondering if with some work experience I'd be able to get into some of the top tier programs.
3. What type of work experience should I try to get into if I want to do intel?
4. Does anyone have any opinion on Missouri State University's Department of Strategic Studies program in DC?</p>
<p>My first, most important recommendation is this: don't go to an IR program with ONE JOB in mind. Especially a job that has an extremely capricious vetting process like a CIA gig. Intel is fine, but remember that getting a position at the CIA, DIA, NSA, etc. doing intel can be made very difficult if you crap out on a polygraph-- and polys are not exactly "science." Or fair.</p>