<p>In terms of engineering & science?</p>
<p>Princeton
Harvard
Yale
MIT
Stanford
Duke (Pratt)
Columbia (SEAS)</p>
<p>rank these plz ~</p>
<p>I'll probably get flamed but I wouldn't put Harvard very high on the list.</p>
<ol>
<li>MIT</li>
<li>Stanford</li>
<li>Duke</li>
<li>Princeton (ugrad is amazing but I'm otherwise a bit unfamilar with it)</li>
<li>Yale/Harvard --Mostly on name alone. There is a reason some say "The few schools where it doesn't matter what you major in". </li>
<li>Columbia SEAS</li>
</ol>
<p>engineering and science ranking would be different
engineering:
MIT
Stanford
Princeton
Columbia
Duke
Yale
Harvard</p>
<p>I agree with collegehelp, but Duke is better than Columbia</p>
<p>
[quote]
1. MIT
2. Stanford
3. Duke
4. Princeton (ugrad is amazing but I'm otherwise a bit unfamilar with it)
5. Yale/Harvard --Mostly on name alone. There is a reason some say "The few schools where it doesn't matter what you major in".
6. Columbia SEAS
[/quote]
</p>
<p>
[quote]
MIT
Stanford
Princeton
Columbia
Duke
Yale
Harvard
[/quote]
</p>
<p>I think you guys ought to have better respect for Harvard. Granted, Harvard's engineering is not the equivalent to MIT's or Stanford's . But it's really not that bad. According to USNews, Harvard grad engineering is ranked #21, and undergrad engineering is ranked in the low 20's or so. That's pretty darn good, considering that there are literally hundreds and hundreds of engineering programs out there. It's not a matter of being "mostly on name alone". The Harvard engineering program is far far better than the average engineering program. </p>
<p>Harvard engineering is certainly better than Yale engineering on almost every important criteria, so I don't understand how anybody could rank Harvard under Yale in engineering, or even tied with engineering. That is simply unreasonable. </p>
<p>Harvard engineering is also probably tied in engineering with Duke or Columbia. Harvard grad engineering is actually ranked higher than Columbia's and Duke's engineering, and vice versa for undergrad. So basically, it's a tie. </p>
<p>So from an engineering standpoint, I think the TRUE ranking would be something like:</p>
<p>MIT
Stanford
Princeton
Harvard/Duke/Columbia
Yale</p>
<p>Now, if you want to include a mix of both science and engineering, then clearly Harvard moves up. Harvard's science is arguably the best in the WORLD, as evidenced by the fact that Harvard has more science Nobel Prize winners on its faculty than any other school. hence, a combination engineering/science ranking would almost certainly propel Harvard upwards. Granted, it still won't be at the level of MIT or Stanford, because Harvard's engineering is clearly can't match them. But clearly Harvard would be better than any of the other schools mentioned. Hence, such a ranking might look like this:</p>
<p>MIT
Stanford
Harvard
Columbia
Duke
Yale</p>
<p>If you don't believe me, then let me ask you this. Other than Columbia Geology/Earth Science, name ONE science where Yale, Duke, or Columbia is better than harvard. {Hint, don't say that Duke is better than Harvard at Biology, as according to USNews grad rankings, Harvard is #2, and Duke is #12}. You can't do it. That's because Harvard is a pretty darn good science school.</p>
<p>I hope y'all aren't being overtaken by Harvard-envy. Harvard is not all hype, you know. Harvard actually has a lot of substance to back up its hype. In particular, the Harvard science programs are very very good. Even the Harvard engineering program is not that bad.</p>
<p>as far as
MIT
Stanford
Princeton
Columbia/Duke
Yale/Harvard</p>
<p>this is probably as accurate as you'll get. I had the old usnews and i remember them being close to this i think princetwon was like 18 w/ columbia like 20 or 22. harvard and yale were def below somewhere.</p>
<p>ranking harvard w/ columbia in engineering can be viewed as nothing more than a joke or "fanboy"-ism imho</p>
<p>I don't see how it's a joke. From a grad perspective, Harvard actually has a HIGHER engineering ranking than Columbia or Duke. Undergrad, Columbia is a bit better than Harvard. So, overall, I think it's a tie.</p>
<p>But what is not in dispute is that Harvard is far far better than Columbia, Duke, or Yale when it comes to the sciences. I think this is indisputable. </p>
<p>Look at the new rankings and see for yourself, if you don't believe me.</p>
<p>As for real, meaningful engineering program quality:</p>
<p>It might be interesting to look at the number of undergraduate courses actually given each semester, specifically in the engineering department, at each if these schools. Not listed in the catalog, but actually given.</p>
<p>And then furthermore, break those up by the major engineering specialties.
Like how many courses are actually given in the Civil Engineering Department? In the Chemical Engineering Department?</p>
<p>Given that all these particular schools start out with outstanding students, in comparable academic environments:</p>
<p>An engineering program with zero breadth and depth of undergraduate course offerings has to be evaluated as such. Regardless of their endowment and graduate research success in a few specialty areas. I for one don't know that the ratings groups have done this evaluation with the focus on the points I feel are the most germane. I suggest looking beyond ratings. to substance.</p>
<p>A student entering engineering frequently does not know what kind of engineer he wants to be. Exposure to the broad range of engineering activities, both in the early stages and later on, is critical for getting the best direction. If the courses aren't there, the engineering educational opportunities are lacking, and this DOES make a difference. IMO.</p>
<p>@ sakky, harvard doesnt rank above columbia in undergrad or grad.</p>
<p>It really matters in what field and if we're talking undergrad/grad/overall progams- Princeton has the Institute of Advanced Study where Einstein worked, for example, but part of the package there is you don't have to teach students. Harvard is also awesome in science but they dropped some requirements from a few undergrad degrees recently (physics comes to mind) so it would be easier and attract more majors.</p>
<p>monydad has a very good point. I took a quick glance at Harvard's engineering courses list and didn't see anything for civil engineering or chemical engineering. breadth is certainly not a strongpoint for them. With this in mind, I don't see how you can rank Columbia behind Harvard for engineering.</p>
<p>is it true that Harvard students can take engineering classes at MIT as well?</p>
<p>Yes they can, and vice versa.</p>
<p>
[quote]
@ sakky, harvard doesnt rank above columbia in undergrad or grad.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Harvard is ranked #21 in grad, Columbia is ranked #20. Fine, it isn't above Columbia, but it's close enough. The point is, I don't see that Columbia has a truly substantial lead over Harvard when it comes to engineering. </p>
<p>However, I think it's rather indisputable that Harvard is, overall, better than Columbia in the sciences. </p>
<p>
[quote]
It might be interesting to look at the number of undergraduate courses actually given each semester, specifically in the engineering department, at each if these schools. Not listed in the catalog, but actually given.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>
[quote]
monydad has a very good point. I took a quick glance at Harvard's engineering courses list and didn't see anything for civil engineering or chemical engineering. breadth is certainly not a strongpoint for them. With this in mind, I don't see how you can rank Columbia behind Harvard for engineering
[/quote]
</p>
<p>I think your concerns just got answered by flutterbyhigh and Aurelius. What some people don't realize is that Harvard students have access to the ENTIRE course catalog at MIT through cross-reg. MIT is arguably the broadest and most respected engineering school in the world, and Harvard students can access all of those courses. Granted, there are some bureaucratic hurdles to overcome if you want to cross-reg, notably the fact that the 2 schools do not have sync'ed academic calendars, but the fact remains that a Harvard student can get a top-notch engineering education by just cross-regging a lot at MIT. </p>
<p>Keep in mind that Harvard and MIT are almost literally adjacent to each other. They are only 2 subway stops away. It actually takes you less time to get from the MIT Eastgate dorm to Harvard Yard (through the subway) than it does to get to, say, the MIT Stratton Student Center. </p>
<p>So I think that this discussion of Harvard's supposed lack of breadth is way off the mark. I agree with monydad's general point that one can look at the breadth and depth of course offerings, but I would say that you have to look at the breadth and depth of course offerings not only in the Harvard engineering department, but also at all of the MIT course offerings that are available through cross-reg. You can even discount some of the MIT course availability because of the bureaucratic hassles of cross-reg. Even so, when you look at it that way, I think it's quite clear that the engineering course availability as a Harvard student exceeds that of a Columbia engineering student. Columbia doesn't have a deal where you can take numerous courses at an elite closeby engineering school. But Harvard does. </p>
<p>Don't get me wrong. Nobody is saying that going to Harvard and then using cross-reg is the equivalent of just being a fully-fledged MIT student in the first place. So clearly studying engineering at Harvard is not going to be as good as studying engineering at MIT. But it's still pretty darn good. All this discussion of "cannot find civil engineering or chemical engineering courses" is rather irrelevant, because the answer is then to simply cross-reg those courses at MIT. </p>
<p>But seriously, it's not like engineering is really all that different. Trust me, I know. It's not like ME Fluid Mechanics/Heat Transfer is all that different from ChemE Fluid Mechanics/Heat Transfer. It's not like ME Thermodynamics is all that different from ChemE Thermodynamics. The truth is, only a few courses are really that different. For ChemE, it's probably reactor engineering and Unit Ops (ChemE lab). So you just cross-reg those courses at MIT.</p>
<p>But in any case, getting back to the OP's point, Harvard is a stellar science school. I think there is little dispute that it is better than Columbia, Duke, or Yale. Hence, overall (both eng + science), it's hard to say that Harvard is worse than Columbia, Duke, or Yale.</p>