<p>Hear Yea! Hear Yea!....Correctly if I am wrong but UNSWR ranking does not include other criteria like membership fo AAU (AAU is this: Association of American Universities), SURA (The Southeastern Universities Research Association--<a href="http://www.sura.org/about/members.html">http://www.sura.org/about/members.html</a>), accreditation, etc. Therefore, such Ranking is kind of incomplete, not telling the whole pictures of the school (s) and can be misleading. the AAU for example does not include Darmouth, Notre Dame, Tufts, etc. These schools are ahead of Tulane in terms of the ranking. So, I feel that anyone who has graduated in one of those schools (even they are ahead of Tulane) but she/he is lacking in Research because their schools not a member of AAU. As of importance, for anyone who is reading this (prospective students, etc), if you are interested in or love doing Research, you have to look deeper than the Ranking. You have to study/examine the school programs, their research, school membership into exclusive society (group) , accreditation, etc. And that is my two cents.</p>
<p>My bad…this is bad: Correctly if I am wrong but UNSWR…it is supposed to be correct me if I am wrong…dang, fat fingers…</p>
<p>Well, it is USNWR of course. It is also Dartmouth. And Dartmouth is a college, not a university. So while it does have a handful of Ph.D. programs mostly in the sciences, it shouldn’t be used as an example. In that sense it is more like Tulane when it comes to research opportunities for undergrads. It isn’t exactly a sought after place for aspiring Ph.D.'s in most of the sciences, certainly not compared to the other Ivies and major research schools like Cal, Michigan, etc.</p>
<p>As far as AAU and SURA, of course these are wonderful organizations to be part of. But as I said in my post on another thread, I wouldn’t use that to say other schools are not as good. They have excellent research programs in many fields. In my field and others I look at from time to time, I see excellent submissions from Notre Dame all the time, as well as dozens or even hundreds of schools not in the AAU.</p>
<p>The issue, at least many times, is whether the opportunity to do meaningful research as an undergrad is there. In many cases, the stronger the graduate program the less opportunity there is for an undergrad to get really involved in the research, at least in the sciences with which I am most familiar. Professors that have large (>20) numbers of grad students are so busy managing them, writing grants, consulting and teaching that they have little time for the undergrads.</p>
<p>Tulane is in that “sweet spot” where they have high level researchers doing great work in many fields, yet most of the grad programs are not like these much larger, and yes more prestigious, ones. Undergrads are nearly always welcomed enthusiastically, and can finish their time at Tulane having learned an unbelievable amount, as well as potentially getting their names as coauthors on papers in the most respected journals. It absolutely was one of the highlights of my time at Tulane.</p>
<p>At this time I wouldn’t say that Tulane is where I would go for a Ph.D. in many fields if I were hoping to be an academic or get a job at the most prestigious think tanks. There are exceptions, but to date that has not been Tulane’s focus. Undergrads have been. I think that is changing somewhat in the sense they are selectively trying to focus on certain grad programs, but frankly I haven’t looked into that much. Just based on a few things I read here and there in the university’s communications.</p>
<p>In any case, grad schools like MIT or Penn that are looking at undergrads from schools that are not in the AAU will not think any research they did was not of a high caliber. As I said, there are dozens of schools that do world-class research that don’t happen to be in the AAU.</p>
<p>US News & World Report</p>
<p>USNWR</p>
<p>:)</p>
<p>But about the main point of the thread, I think stating “she/he is lacking in Research because their schools not a member of AAU” is a bit too bold. AAU is an organization and is really about prestige, although I thought I read somewhere that it lobbies every now and then. Regardless, I kind of see it in the same light as the Cornell Club, just maybe not as ridiculous. Yes, being a member of AAU is a good thing, but is a student graduating from a non-AAU school “lacking in research”? Not necessarily.</p>
<p>I should have also mentioned that accreditation is a given. USNWR won’t consider a school for the rankings if it isn’t even accredited.</p>
<p>JPH093 and Fallen Chemist: Joining an enclusive Country Club has its previledge and prestigous. Dont you think so? You may say anything or even argue until your face turning blue but the facts remain that Darmouth, Tufts, and the gang, etc are not in AAU, SURA, etc. And, in order to become member of AAU, it is not easy…it is by invitation only. After that, the school has to maintain it and that is if the school is lacking in Research for whatever reason(s), AAU will drop it such membership just like that.</p>
<p>Therefore, Tulane puts it in their website such memberships (AAU, SURA, etc) because without them Tulane will become nothing, just a school from the south.</p>
<p>As of importance, kindly take a look of my copy-and-paste so that you can have some understanding of what I am talking about (Ranking means nothing):</p>
<ol>
<li><p>Dont you think that Darmouth, Tufts and the gang, etc that do not belong to AAU have given thought or perhaps tried to get into AAU? remember AAU is prestigous and not everyone can get in. </p></li>
<li><p>AAU is a symbol of Prestigous and if they take it away from Tulane (or its members) then certainly Tulane will have nothing or becoming less prestigous.</p></li>
<li><p>Darmouth, Tufts and the gang have the ranking from UNSWR while Tulane has AAU, SURA, etc. IF Tulane does not have the AAU. SURA, etc then do you think Tulane can still claim or be considered as Prestigous School?</p></li>
<li><p>Tulane puts AAU in its website and it means something and Tulane is very proud of such achievements. Without those things (AAU, SURA, etc) then Tulane is like just like any other school from the South. STOP and Imagine for a while, in the UNSWR ranking Tulane is not TOP 10 then Tulane does not have AAU, SURA, etc…what do you think will happen? THINK ABOUT it…</p></li>
<li><p>To be in AAU, Tulane has worked hard to earn and also to maintain it. IF without good maintainance, AAU certainly will drop Tulane just like that.</p></li>
<li><p>You may be disgusted or does not like what I have said. BUT, the fact remains that RANKING means nothing (I have said it many times) and some schools maybe ahead of Tulane but Tulane has AAU, SURA. Once again, you may say anything but not everyone can join exclusive country club. IT is by invitation only. </p></li>
<li><p>If one has graduated from Tulane, she or he can be proud because it is a duly prestigous school because Tulane has been recognized and has joined the exclusive country club namely AAU, SURA etc. </p></li>
</ol>
<p>Lastly and more importantly, Ranking where art thou? some schools may have the ranking but Tulane has the prestigous status because of those things.</p>
<p>Thank you for reading this and once again Life is good in Tulane and NOLA.</p>
<p>Okla – do you know what the AAU is? What are you even talking about?</p>
<p>It is a group of universities that are leaders in doing research at the senior faculty level. While it is a mark of prestige, it doesn’t necessarily correlate to undergraduate educational experience, which is what usnwr measures. </p>
<p>And it only is available to certain types of schools. For example, it is pretty much impossible to be an AAU member if you don’t have a medical school. That’s the primary reason why the University of Nebraska got kicked out. Why totally awesome schools like Williams, Amherst, Notre Dame are not AAU members. And why not so selective undergrad schools like Arizona, Colorado, Rutgers, Kansas, Iowa State are in.</p>
<p>Took the words right from me, northwesty. Or put another way that part of the USNWR rankings are, as you say, only about undergrad while the AAU is much more about a school having a wide range of graduate programs to go along with their undergraduate majors. Therefore Dartmouth College (and it is Dartmouth, Okla, not Darmouth) cannot belong unless they become a true university, not a college. Yet Dartmouth undergrads do research and have papers published all the time, and are among the brightest students in the world at one of the best schools there is. The difference historically, for those not familiar, is that colleges offer few or no graduate degrees.</p>
<p>It is fine to be proud of the fact that Tulane is in the AAU, but it is only somewhat related to the availability of research opportunities at any school. Many, many, many schools not in AAU offer great research opportunities that get published in the same journals as the schools in the AAU. I should know, for years I regularly visited campuses and their labs as part of my job. It was mostly in chemistry with some in biochemistry and medical labs, but I suspect that if these schools had strong research in these areas they also did in other areas, even unrelated ones. In fact, given the much smaller investment needed, I suspect they have been doing research in other areas to an even greater degree in some cases. Physics, chemistry and medicine are expensive.</p>
<p>Like I said, let’s certainly be proud of Tulane being in the AAU. It is great for the school. But you started out wondering why USNWR didn’t use this as part of their rankings. Well, for the reasons stated above it wouldn’t be fair for the undergraduate rankings. Also, not every student is interested in doing research as an undergrad, and it might not even apply to their major in any meaningful way. Business, philosophy, theater…I cannot see why a school’s research ability would be meaningful to these students, and therefore the ranking shouldn’t reflect this. USNWR is completely flawed, but at least they had the right premise in that they looked for factors they thought reflected on the school in general, not in one area or another. They have specific rankings for certain degree programs, although these are BS as well.</p>
<p>I think you came closer to the truth when you said that students that ARE interested in doing research should dig into a school and see what the opportunities are. Tulane really shines when a student does that. That really is the whole point. I just think you are a bit off base pushing this AAU angle. If it is a country club, then it is a country club that bases admissions more on grad program characteristics, not undergrad. Tulane just happens to be in a position where it is strong enough in those areas to qualify, but is still wide open to undergrad participation. That’s what we need to push and what you seem to actually admire.</p>
<p>northwesty: You said this: "It (AAU) is a group of universities that are leaders in doing research at the senior faculty level. While it is a mark of prestige, it doesn’t necessarily correlate to undergraduate educational experience, which is what usnwr measures. </p>
<p>My answer is this: do you know that Tulane is a member of AAU? if you know then you should know also that the undergraduate students can take part in the Research at Tulane? YES, Junior and Senior can do it. So, what’s the problem? and YES, It correlates to the undergraduate educational experience. Kindly, read this information from Tulane website. It is under research then undergraduate research as follows:</p>
<p>Undergraduate Research</p>
<p>One of the distinctive features of Tulane’s undergraduate program is the requirement that all students participate in year-long individual research project (in addition to the team design projects).</p>
<p>Although individual research projects, including an undergraduate thesis and public oral presentation, have been a part of Tulane’s undergraduate curriculum in Biomedical Engineering since 1977, we have only recently made the conference abstracts available (since 2001). Beginning in 2003, we have hosted an Undergraduate Research and Design Conference, with an abstract booklet. The links below open PDF files with abstracts and conference proceedings.</p>
<p>Nortwesty, I rest my case. For those of you who are reading this, especially the prospective students who love to do Research, kindly take a note that undergraduate students can do Research and are required to do so. And, the Research at Tulane has earned high mark since it has been stamped by AAU for approval.</p>
<p>
It is only required if you are doing an honors thesis in order to graduate magna cum laude or summa cum laude. Otherwise it is not.</p>
<p>Also you can certainly do research before your junior year. I did it as a freshman, in fact, and while that was some time ago there have been CC posters that talk about doing research as early as freshman year, although most wait until at least sophomore year.</p>
<p>Just to be accurate.</p>
<p>Fallen Chemist: but the website says this: One of the distinctive features of Tulane’s undergraduate program is the requirement that all students participate in year-long individual research project (in addition to the team design projects). </p>
<p>Kindly, elaborate if this is only for Honor students? it says all students…</p>
<p>Are you talking about for BME only? If so, then I misunderstood. It may well be true for BME.</p>
<p>Fallen Chemist: Here is the quote from website under School of Science and Engineering for Undergraduate:</p>
<hr>
<p>Undergraduate</p>
<p>As a student in the School of Science and Engineering, you will be offered outstanding opportunities for learning and discovery in science and engineering in an environment that is student-focused, research-intensive, interdisciplinary, entrepreneurial, and responsive to the needs of the community. The School offers a broad range of undergraduate programs in the sciences, engineering, and mathematics. The undergraduate experience is further enriched by opportunities to engage in research, internships.</p>
<hr>
<p>So, as undergraduate, the students have the opportunities in Research not only for BME but for other majors as well. This research of course is also being approved by AAU. I know that not many people would like to do Research but for those who have the interests and curiousity, I high recommend to apply at Tulane Univ and forget about the Ranking since ranking, especially from UNSWR, means NOTHING. Ranking where art thou?</p>
<p>I see the word opportunity in there, but not “required”. Again, is that a requirement for BME?</p>
<p>Kids majoring in biochem have to do a year’s worth of research too.</p>
<p>But not all science majors require research.</p>