<p>Hey people lets just do this experiment. You may know by personal or otherwise experience, about the relative generosity of financial aid packages of the ivies.Lets just start this thread and each one of you must post a ranking which shows the generosity of all Ivies in terms of their financial Aid package.</p>
<p>This is too broad of a question. For what income level? It’s different for low income and middle income students, and vastly different for upper middle income students. However, for an EFC of 0, I can list the most generous schools. The numbers listed are the amount to be paid, through the student contribution and work study (or in my case, all loans) after for years for an EFC of 0. I subtracted non-billable expenses (books, personal expenses, transportation) from the COA.</p>
<p>Rice - $0
Stanford - about $4500
Yale and UChicago - about $7500</p>
<p>If your EFC is 0 at Yale (or you make under $60,000), you will have 0 parent contribution. This means that your bill will essentially be 0 because you will have work study and student contribution (total about 3,500) if not less… this is then applied towards personal and travel expenses that range from 3050-4000 which are “assumed” expenses in the COA and are not paid to the school, meaning you keep that money for those expenses. I believe Harvard and Princeton have very similar policies.</p>
<p>I was just wondering beacause the the only girl who got into yale had an EFC of 0 while the boy who got into dartmouth had an EFC of about $10000.Assuming that they are of similar income levels(socioeconomic diversity is nonexistent in my school) I can only assume that the schools use very different formulas for financial aid.
PS: I am an international student.</p>
<p>Yale Allowance for Books and Personal Expenses: $3050</p>
<p>STUDENT CONTRIBUTION:
Freshman: $1200 (minimum)
Sophomores + = $2450 (minimum)</p>
<p>WORK STUDY:
$2600 (example given on website)</p>
<p>1200 + (2450 x 3) + (2600 x 4) = $18,950 (total student contributions)
$3050 x 4 = $12,200 (non-billable expenses, total)
$18,950 - $12,200 = $6750</p>
<p>$6750 is the total from student contributions or self-help that must be contributed to billable expenses. I can’t afford a student contribution (how on earth would I buy books and clothes or whatever I need?) and I will either not work or work only certain years for like five hours a week (obviously, this is my choice) so the total in loans I will take is $6750. Loans or no loans, an EFC 0 student needs to come up with $6750 for billable expenses. No complaints, but there are the facts.</p>
<p>For an EFC 0 student, Rice waives the student contribution and requires only $1800 in work study.</p>
<p>Harvard/Yale/Princeton
Dartmouth
Brown/Penn/cornell</p>
<p>Keep in mind that there is no such thing as a free ride at any school. As applicantnot demonstrated in his/her post, there are various sundry items for day to day living, eating clubs, greek systems, entertainment on/or campus to travel home) that are also part of the cost of attending college. </p>
<p>While many of these expenses are calculated in the EFC, they must be covered by the student in the form of student contributions from summer earnings and work study while on campus.</p>
<p>Even then there can be a vast difference from what the school calculates and actual cost especially where travel is concerned. </p>
<p>For International students or students who live a long distance from the school where air travel is expensive, it means being on campus for thanksgiving (because the end of the term is around the corner). It could mean staying on campus or with a friend close by, because parents may not be able to foot a bill when the end of the term is a couple of weeks away.</p>
<p>Therefore, applicannot, since Rice requires 1800 in work study and by your methodology for Yale (not working), you would have to take 1800 x 4 = 7,200 out in loans. </p>
<p>Or, this may be wrong. Since Rice does include books (800) and personal expenses (1550), then they actually reimburse you for 2350-1800 = 550 each year.</p>
<p>Just out or curiosity and for the information of others, which of the above is accurate?</p>
<p>Applicantnot,</p>
<p>Your student contribution does not go toward billable expenses, which are tuition, room board, and possibly health insurance if your parents do not have adequate coverage. Where are you getting these #s from? </p>
<p>Personally I think the $3,050 for books and personal expenses are a little on the low side, depending on where you live, what your major is, and the courses that you take (my daughter took a class where there were 20, yes 20 supplemental books in addition to the textbook). Math and Science books easily cost upwards of $100 (even used).</p>
<p>Remember that there are start up cost involved with going to college; you must get yourself there, you must purchase books, laundry detergent, soap and various other sundry items. You must have pocket $ until you get paid from your work study jobs </p>
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<p>While the school calculates this amount in your cost of attendance, they do not give your $ for books or travel expenses (you must pay for these things yourself).</p>
<p>As Sybbie says…books and personal expenses can add up quickly. DD is a sciences major and there have been several terms where her books were almost $1000…including some used ones bought online. We live in the U.S. but across the country. Travel expenses for her two annual trips home and to another relative’s house (closer) for Thanksgiving and spring break amount to another significant cost…about $2000 a year.</p>
<p>Check to see also, what the schools do on some of those shorter vacations. Some schools close the dorms but do arrange housing/meals (at the STUDENT’s expense) off campus. Some schools don’t even do this for international students. Again…this can add to the cost as well. Even IF you are able to stay in your dorm, the food service will not be open on vacations and the cost of meals can add up as well. </p>
<p>Lots of “incidental” costs for college students.</p>
<p>At Yale at least, if you have a low EFC and outside scholarships cover Work Study and student contribution, Yale does reimburse you. In addition, they can even reimburse you in circumstances where there are no outside scholarships such as when your travel expenses and books and personal expenses exceeds (1200 + 2600) of 3800. FOr example, traveling from California, travel expenses may be over $1000, so your total out of pocket expenses is over 3800. They reimburse the difference.</p>
<p>Is this a given for all students? </p>
<p>I would be suprised that Yale would reimburse a student who chose to make last minute travel arrangements during peak travel (thanksgiving/christmas) and incurred a higher priced ticket for doing so. Do they reimburse a student who choses to purchase all new books when used books are available, could have been purchased on line or the book can be held on reserve at the library?</p>
<p>How does Yale determine what charges would be reasonable and customary, and what is a premium price because the student did not “shop around”?</p>
<p>Yale uses estimates of 3050 for personal expenses and depending on your location, gives you a travel allowance in the COA. For example, the travel allowance between Yale and Ohio is about $850. Yale uses averages or what they expect your expenses to be and this can put you in a position to get reimbursed when these expenses exceed 3800. (Basically, everyone’s books and personal expenses are estimated at 3050 and travel varies from 0 to over a thousand for the west and some international students. Its up to you then to even spend less if you want to or if you mismanage, you may have to spend more.</p>
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<p>Your Rice numbers are correct, explaining how I rounded up to zero.</p>
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<p>I’m getting the numbers through inference. Let’s say the COA for a school is $55,000, of which $3000 is calculated for non-billable expenses. Your student contribution is a mandated $2500 and your work study contribution is a mandated $2500. Your student portion is $5000. $3000 is allotted for “non-billable expenses” within the COA. So, $3000 of the expected $5000 student portion is for non-billable expenses. $2000, the remainder, goes to billable expenses. You can find this information on any college website that has such a financial aid plan. I recommend reading up on Rice, UChicago, Yale, and Stanford.</p>
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While the school calculates this amount in your cost of attendance, they do not give your $ for books or travel expenses (you must pay for these things yourself).
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<p>Wrong. Many top schools (here may I cite Stanford, Yale, Rice, and UChicago, for example) include non-billable expenses in the official Cost of Attendence.</p>
<p>Rice CoA: [Financial</a> Aid at Rice University](<a href=“http://financialaid.rice.edu/main.aspx?id=46]Financial”>http://financialaid.rice.edu/main.aspx?id=46)
Chicago CoA: [Office</a> of College Aid](<a href=“http://collegeaid.uchicago.edu/cost.shtml]Office”>http://collegeaid.uchicago.edu/cost.shtml)</p>
<p>Let me put it this way. I’m an EFC 0 student. Suppose I get in and attend Stanford, since I know Stanford’s situation a little better, having spoken to a low-income counselor there. Stanford requires a $4500 student portion between a student summer contribution and work study. Stanford “allots” $1485 for books and supplies and $2345 for personal expenses. The Stanford CoA is $53,652. For an EFC 0 student, all but the $4500 student portion is covered. That leaves $4500 to be paid to the university. Now, the CoA includes books, personal expenses, and supplies. But, books and personal expenses come to a total of $3870. If you don’t include non-billable expenses (which I don’t, since work, not loans - which I’m trying to calculate - can cover that) that leaves $630. What does that $630 cover? Billable expenses. The same goes for Yale. (As a side note, Stanford differs because it does not include transportation as a stable number. Transportation is added to each student, at the cost of two round trips per year. Since from my home to Stanford would almost certainly cost more than $630, I would actually “owe” the bursar nothing.) So, every year, I’d owe Stanford $630 on my bill. For Yale, at the end of ten years, it would be $6750. For Rice, it would be $0, and so on and so forth.</p>
<p>So, the $4500 student contribution is supposed to cover the estimated $3870+ for books, supplies, personal expenses, and transportation. If the total of that number comes to less than $4500, some money is owed to the bursar. If that total comes to MORE than $4500, the money is loaded onto the Stanford ID card and can be used to purchase books and other supplies (as per the low-income counselor at Stanford).</p>
<p>If you think that this works another way, let me know, since that’s actually BETTER for me, not worse.</p>
<p>Applicantnot,</p>
<p>You must back out books, and personal expenses out of your cost of attendance. Yes, they may be “covered” by financial aid, however they are non-billable and there is an expectation that your student contribution/work-study monies will cover these expenses.</p>
<p>Your student contribution comes from you working a summer job and bringing the money with you to college. The work study money will come to you in the form of a check (or direct deposit) every 2 weeks based on the number of hours you have worked.</p>
<p>If you choose not to work summers(for your summer contribution) or your work study job, the school is not going “give” you more $$ (they will give you a loan, which must be repaid)</p>
<p>Another thing to remember about the Ivies and similarly generous schools…the STUDENT contribution actually increases every year. So for students who plan to do unpaid internships, or not work…the student contribution will have to come from SOMEWHERE. The schools that require a student contribution are not likely to waive it.</p>
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<p>That’s exactly what I’m doing in my calculations. However, the student contribution is higher than the cost of attendence allowance for the personal expenses, implying that the extra money is used to cover a small portion of the billable expenses.</p>
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<p>Exactly. $4500 per year is the student portion. Say, $1000 per year is not accounted for in the CoA. That $1000 per year is expected to go toward billable expenses (which I personally will take out in loans, as you’re saying). We’re saying the same thing, but I must not be clear because it doesn’t seem like you’re understanding the link here.</p>
<p>You basically restated what I wrote, so I’m not sure where our misunderstanding is.</p>
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<p>Exactly. This is why I illustrated that there is no full ride, though I’m certainly not complaining about the numbers I’m looking at. What I’m trying to say is that some portion, it varies on the school, of the student contribution actually goes toward billable expenses. For example, at Washington University in St. Louis where there is no personal expenses allowance in the CoA (at least not that I could find), 100% of the student contribution is put toward billable expenses. This means that the student is expected to either put his/her summer and work study money toward billable expenses OR take out loans for that amount. At other schools, a much smaller portion is set aside for billable expenses. I know that I, personally (and perhaps other low or 0 EFC students) cannot afford to put a summer contribution toward billable expenses because that is my only books and spending money for the year. I also know that I, personally, will either not work study or will work study toward a means like alternative spring break or a plane ticket for study abroad. This means that for WashU, I’ll be $12,000 in the hole after four years (no complaints). For Yale, it means only $6750 (yearly increases included).</p>
<p>However, since at some schools, the student portion covers mostly non-billable expenses, the student will not rack up debt. At other schools, debt will incur. At schools like WashU, I can’t make the student contribution to billable expenses and live. At Stanford or Yale or Rice or UChicago, however, the student contribution toward actual billable expenses is often only about $1000.</p>
<p>At Princeton, if you are on full financial aid, they give you a check for the money above tuition, r&b that is included in the COA (ie you get money for whatever they decide is the right amount for books, travel, etc). If you decide not to have a meal plan as an upperclassmen then they give you the equivalent money for food.</p>