Rankings

Colleges and Universities A-Z Georgetown University
1

<p>I know rankings mean nothing, but I was just curious - US News ranks ND higher than Georgetown (just one or two places), but I have always seen Georgetown as much, much more selective, prestigious, and just overall, a better university (better education). Is there a reason why ND is seen as "better," even if it's by a very marginal amount? What does ND do better than Gtown?</p>

<p>Edit: I should mention I got in as an English major into both. I'm looking at both universities as a stepping stone for law school, eventually.</p>

2

<p>The reason ND is ranked higher than Georgetown probably comes down to money. ND is a much richer school than Georgetown and thus reaps the benefits that come along with having that much money.</p>

3

<p>I agree with Andy. I've always heard and thus thought that Georgetown was ranked as low as it was because of its smaller endowment then most schools of the same caliber.</p>

4

<p>This baffles me too. I hate how much money plays into EVERYTHING; a lot of people right now don't even know if they can go to Georgetown because of money (I guess that's part of the small endowment or whatever). But I don't think that should be a reason for it to drop in the rankings. I guess I don't know a lot about these things, but Georgetown is amazing!</p>

5

<p>Georgetown is almost oblivious to its US News rating. They do almost everything to drive down their rating for the sake of the actual education the students receive. For example, Georgetown could vastly increase its already high selectivity rating if it accepted the common application, and did not require three SAT IIs and an interview. For the sake of picking the best students, it makes it more diffcult to apply there than virtually any school in America. While this helps it pick the very best students, it doesn't help with gaining points at US News. If Georgetown played the early decision "squeeze" game, requiring deposits from its early acceptees, it could also manipulate its figures further. Instead, Georgetown is committed to student choice (after the fortunate ones have braved its intense process, they are given the chance to truly reflect on their decision).</p>

<p>Georgetown refuses to cut down on its hiring of adjunct practicioners of diplomacy, government, international business, law etc. even though it hurts its US News percentage of full time faculty. Again, education is more important than the rating.</p>

<p>Georgetown has oriented its fund raising the last few years to spending all the money raised on needed buildings (new performing arts center, and new business school building) instead of putting it in the bank to have a higher endowment figure which again does not impress US News.</p>

<p>While many an alumnus (like myself sometimes), may question Georgetown's behavior, I truly think that Georgetown's commitment to being excellent is more important than playing a game to look excellent. In the long run, it produces results. For in the last analysis, the true influence of a university is how it is regarded in the world's power centers rather than the world's dentist offices.</p>

6

<p>Georgetown always gets screwed in the rankings :(</p>

7

<p>and as I say in post # 5, could apparently care less.</p>

8

<p>
[quote]
For in the last analysis, the true influence of a university is how it is regarded in the world's power centers rather than the world's dentist offices.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Ha, I like that.</p>

<p>If I had to pick between Notre Dame and Georgetown, I would definitely go to Georgetown, I was just curious for the reasons of Georgetown's lower ranking. But you guys mentioned a smaller endowment compared to other universities of a similar level - is this reflected in Georgetown's financial aid packages to students?</p>

9

<p>I am not an expert, but from my understanding the answer is no, particularly since Georgetown is in about the third year of a program where its alumni are contributing toward the financial aid packages of admitted students. I think the program is called the GSP or Georgetown Scholarship Program. Perhaps someone who knows more can elaborate.</p>

10

<p>Georgetown meets 100% need. I can testify.</p>

11

<p>Thanks vienna_man. My friends have always teased me (nothing malicious) in I guess the same way all nerds tease each other. My closer friends who got into UChicago says her rank is twice as good as our 23rd Georgetown. I just told her that her school sold her soul to the devil to get its rank, but never had anything to back it up.</p>

<p>It's also nice to hear the 100% need-met policy. The only thing that's really holding me from sending is the deposit is the money I'll have to pay.</p>

12

<p>Rankings are meaningless; to say that ND is better than Georgetown or Georgetown is better than ND is to be guilty of inaccuracy. I think it really depends on what your intended major is. Georgetown definitely has a lot of programs that are better than their counterparts at Notre Dame (SFS, etc.). I don't mean to gloss over these but as I am unfamiliar with the nonpolitical strengths of Georgetown I will leave it to you to fill me in. Please don't attribute everything to money; it just sounds whiny and bitter. Notre Dame is a damn fine school. Our science and engineering programs wipe the floor with Georgetown's offerings. Mendoza significantly outranks McDonough. We actually have an architecture program (ranked 11th in the nation). Unfortunately, I don't know enough about our respective strengths in Arts and Letters to be able to debate intelligently in this aspect of undergraduate education. Our facilities are amazing; over a billion dollars are being spent this decade on building new buildings/expanding old ones. Notre Dame is also a smaller school. You think you get screwed in the rankings? Try being from the midwest, where the coasts just consider you flyover country. :(</p>

13

<p>probably another reason is the engineering,math thing in GU pulled down a little bit~</p>

14

<p>I don't even think we have engineering as a major.</p>

15

<p>Covering post #5 by vienna man, and clarifying a couple of points:</p>

<p>1) Selectivity is a part of it, but not the largest reason why Georgetown is ranked where it is. The Common App should be accepted at Geogetown, since it is easy and requires less duplicate work. Stanford finally got its act together this year, as did U Chicago. I think Georgetown can come to the 21st century as well.</p>

<p>2) I agree with this point, but most in Academia would strongly disagree. Part-time teachers who are major practitioners are great, but how well are they connected to the school? How are office hours? I'm not saying it doesn't work out, but it is understandable why U.S. News uses such criteria.</p>

<p>3) This is not exactly true. New capital improvements do affect the rankings, otherwise, colleges throughout the US would not be spending billions for new buildings that in some cases completely frivolous. While this is a nice idea, the real deal is that a higher endowment will greatly increase the impact of the school's mission than any new building. Endowment numbers are not a magic number, and Georgetown certainly does an incredible amount with its amount. But at the same time, the smaller endowment is a problem. The biggest problem is in financial aid, which is something that admissions has said is a problem: "According to Georgetown’s Office of Advancement, over 80 percent of financial aid funding at institutions like Columbia and Harvard comes directly from their endowments, while only 15 percent of aid at Georgetown comes from the endowment — the remainder comes out of the operating budget." Bridging</a> the Financial Aid Gap | The Hoya It's also important to note that the school is still running a deficit, something that has hurt it over the last few years.</p>

<p>4) I love the quote, about power centers, but it is important to note that there are thousands of financial centers - from government offices, investment banks, to venture capital and major corporations. Georgetown does excellently in a lot of these areas, and needs to improve in some others.</p>

<p>Overall, Georgetown does quite a bit with what it has. But given everything about the school, I definitely think that it ranks about where it should.</p>

16

<p>It is really interesting when someone puts up a post that a school with an average math SAT of about 710 or 720, has students who have a "math thing" holding them back. With all due respect, I think that large quantities of Georgetown students will not be in danger of overpaying their taxes or undertipping their waiters.</p>

17

<p>Knightshield.</p>

<p>I feel compelled to respond to two of your points-</p>

<p>1) I think that with what is at stake with admissions to top colleges it is Stanford and Chicago that should raise their standards to Georgetown level and require 3 SATs and an evaluative interview. I think the modern age requires as much information as possible, not as little, to make such an important decision. I think it "modern" of Georgetown to require more information in the information age, and to gauge real interest by requiring the use of its forms. The student obtains a lot of information from this process too, and learns a lot about themselves in my view. also.</p>

<p>2)When the part time faculty are past heads of government of nations like Poland, Spain and Indonesia or past US cabinet officers, it does not make sense to defend the US News policy that downgrades a school for its percentage of full time faculty. </p>

<p>Just my humble opinion.</p>

18

<p>Well, you are referring to rankings in terms of "prestige" and not in terms of qualitative differences between schools.</p>

<p>GEORGETOWN is actually one of the most prestigious names in higher education, perhaps because of history, longevity, and the connotations of the name with DC.
Non-Wharton Penn, Cornell, Brown, WashU, Rice, Emory, Vanderbilt, and Northwestern probably aren't more recognized and yet are ranked above it.</p>

<p>I don't know if this is what you had in mind necessarily. G-Town is probably Top 15 when it comes to name-brand appeal alone.</p>

19

<p>sungchul...if your friend from UChicago makes fun of Gtown's rank at 23 according to US News, refer her to princetonreview's "Toughest to Get into" list where Georgetown ranks 18th, and UChicago isnt even on the list (nor is notre dame, vanderbilt, rice, or any of those)</p>

<p><a href="http://princetonreview.com/college/research/rankings/rankingDetails.asp?CategoryID=1&TopicID=10%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://princetonreview.com/college/research/rankings/rankingDetails.asp?CategoryID=1&TopicID=10&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

20

<p>Unfortunately that link seems to require a login...</p>