<p>Just wondering. Anybody know?</p>
<p>Please don't talk about how rankings don't matter... I'm just curious as to why it happened.</p>
<p>Thanks for any responses!</p>
<p>Newsweek started including high school counselor rankings in its methodology, and apparently high school counselors rated Georgetown #6. I’m sure there are a few other factors, but that seems to be the most influential.</p>
<p>Same reason as always - “resources” i.e. endowment.</p>
<p>Georgetown’s endowment is comparatively low relative to universities in the same tier.</p>
<p>Yeah I just wiki’d the endowments… that’s weird. At least from what I can tell, it doesn’t seem to have a big impact on the quality of the university…</p>
<p>Seeing as how endowments basically mean how much money the university is hoarding, that’s not too surprising. Georgetown’s Jesuit beliefs meant that they pretty much spent money as it came in. It wasn’t until recently when they wised up and started going for a large endowment, but by then universities like Harvard and Stanford had already been hoarding cash for decades.</p>
<p>The counselor rating at #6 (with Brown, Columbia, Cornell, Johns Hopkins, etc. and ahead of Duke, Dartmouth, Northwestern, UPenn.) actually helped Georgetown’s ranking move up. Georgetown is always ranked lower than it should be because:
-faculty: Georgetown values part-time faculty from the DC community–leaders who are actually active in the fields of politics, journalism/media, science, international affairs, business–to complement the academic scholars at the university. In USNWR, the % of parttime faculty HINDERS the ranking (despite the fact that it clearly enhances the educational experience at Georgetown).
-endowment: always a problem at Georgetown.
-alumni giving: should be better than it is, particularly given the satisfaction of Georgetown graduates with their Georgetown experience. One reason is that Georgetown alumni often direct their giving to other activities they were involved with during the undergraduate experience and not to the university (Best Buddies, etc.). Also, Georgetown does not fudge their numbers in this way like other universities are known to (this is true of admissions numbers as well–some universities count incomplete applications in their totals and designate them as rejections–these numbers can be in the THOUSANDS).
-emphasis on undergraduate education over graduate education: this VERY POSITIVE aspect of the undergraduate experience at Georgetown results in our graduate programs not being (comparatively) as strong or emphasized, which affects our academic reputation among academics (not college counselors).</p>
<p>This was addressed previously <a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/georgetown-university/930522-why-g-town-not-highly-ranked-us-news.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/georgetown-university/930522-why-g-town-not-highly-ranked-us-news.html</a> here, and most of the major points were raised in that discussion.</p>
<p>It looks like Georgetown is rapidly closing its endowment gap with its peers. Two large gifts, one for $87 million this week and one for $75 million last year are the two largest in its history. In addition, a GU Board member is the CEO of a corporation (Potash) that has recevied a takeover bid that will value his stock at over $500 to $600 million. I am sure that the other members of the board will at least casually ask if he might be thinking of making a charitable contribution. Whether he does or doesn’t, it is clear that the days of Georgetown’s peers looking sneeringly down their noses at its mediocre endowment are coming to an end.</p>
<p>As a past faculty member of Georgetown University where I achieved the rank of Associate Professor, it is my impression that by and large the student body is better than warranted by the faculty. Georgetown has other problems besides its lack of endowment. </p>
<p>It actually provides fairly restrictive educational opportunities compared to a Stanford, Penn, or University of Georgia that has a full range of graduate schools although the law and Medical school are reasonable at Georgetown.</p>
<p>If Georgetown was located in any other city than Washington, DC you probably wouldn’t even be considering it a major university</p>
<p>Rads4cure: I think your comments are interesting and not completely unfounded. Certainly Georgetown, more than perhaps any other top university, is a student-centered university, and specifically undergraduate-centered. The professional schools are well-represented, but the graduate programs are generally UNDER emphasized (with the exception of a select few that Georgetown has decided to promote). In terms of educational opportunities for undergraduates, as a student at Georgetown and Duke, I found the UNDERGRADUATE opportunities at Georgetown far exceeded those at Duke; similarly, as a medical student at Hopkins, I found my UNDERGRADUATE education at Georgetown was as comprehensive, compelling, and broader than the education most of my medical school classmates received at their respective institutions. </p>
<p>You need to be careful about your comments–this site is used primarily to determine UNDERGRADUATE experiences, and as far as that domain, Georgetown is a “major university” and arguably provides a more comprehensive undergraduate experience than the schools you listed. The USNWR rankings, when it comes to academic reputation, is suppose to focus on undergraduate quality, but clearly does not.</p>
<p>Also, as a prior faculty member, what part of your Georgetown experience was unsatisfactory? And I am confused about your comment regarding your impression that the student body is “better than warranted by the faculty.” Are faculty who are dedicated to teaching and having an undergraduate focus less valuable than those who are dedicated to research/publications? Certainly, the major research universities, with their tenure process based so heavily on grants and research productivity, seem to value this aspect of academia over the teaching–not at Georgetown–and you?</p>
<p>hoyasaxa1:</p>
<p>You are obviously a loyal alumni which I suspect might affect your opinions about the school. </p>
<p>Georgetown is one of the hardest schools to get into in the US and as such the graduates are smart and they do well in later endeavors. But I would maintain that they would have done well in other schools and I would credit the students more than the Georgetown education for their success.</p>
<p>As far as undergrad opportunity, I disagree that Duke, Penn, Vanderbilt and Stanford as well as a host of other schools do not provide their students with more educational opportunities. There is much more opportunities to learn at a University, particularly one where the graduate schools and the undergraduate schools are located on the same campus. </p>
<p>Georgetown is basically a college with some graduate schools, some of which are off site. </p>
<p>As a former “insider”, I have no problem with the USNWR rankings. I think Georgetown has been over rated for years.</p>
<p>On a personal note, good luck with your studies at Hopkins. I suspect the medical system you will face will be quite different from the current one.</p>
<p>I wonder if rads4cure was denied tenure at Georgetown?</p>
<p>With all due respect to rads4cure, I must point out that there is no reason for any of us to believe that (s)he was on the faculty of Georgetown. In regard to his/her argument such as it is, though, I think there are some valid points.</p>
<p>“If Georgetown was located in any other city than Washington, DC you probably wouldn’t even be considering it a major university” I think there’s some truth to this statement, though it’s not quite how I would phrase it. Georgetown has very effectively leveraged its location as a major force multiplier. Particularly when it comes to the SFS, Georgetown has used its location to attract a caliber of faculty and students (the best in the world for masters programs, according to the rankings) that it otherwise couldn’t possibly afford. Even outside of politics, Georgetown has pulled in professors with ties to DC organizations (e.g., the NIH) that help it achieve higher quality than would be possible if it were in, say, South Bend Indiana. This isn’t a bad thing, though, Georgetown has been very successful in playing to its strengths and that’s why it outperforms its endowment in the rankings.</p>
<p>Look guys, I was just trying to explain what the ratings show.
You don’t have to accept it.<br>
In fact it really doesn’t matter. The rankings are the rankings.
and yes I was really faculty and yes I was tenure.</p>
<p>Have a great day.</p>
<p>Why would someone leave a tenured position at a prestigious university?</p>
<p>Rads4cure:<br>
It would just be helpful if you would expand on your comments and provide some context for them as well–of which school/department were you a faculty? How did you see your faculty colleagues as being less than what you would have hoped? How involved were you with the Georgetown undergraduate community and teaching? How involved with the other universities have you been, in terms of the undergraduate communities. </p>
<p>It is clear, for example, that Hopkins has UNBELIEVABLE faculty (in terms of academic accomplishments and research productivity) and resources, but that the undergraduate experience (education, community, opportunities) gets shafted and is less emphasized–it certainly does not even closely compare to the undergraduate experience at Georgetown.</p>
<p>I feel that Georgetown provides (and in some ways uniquely provided me, relative to what I experienced and see at the other universities with which I am familiar and have attended) a unique combination of an institution with an emphasis of an undergraduate education (similar to a liberal arts college) within a research university that has far more resources (faculty, research, etc.) than a liberal arts college, in a city that is unparalleled in terms of educational, cultural, and social opportunities. The school provides a traditional college experience without being limiting in any way (no “standard” social experience), a strong sense of community, a commitment to service to others, and an accomplished, driven, cosmopolitan student body. No, I would not likely choose to be a graduate student there (unless it was in foreign service, security studies, linguistics, public policy, political science, or professional school (law, medicine, business)), but it’s hard to beat in terms of undergraduate experiences.</p>
<p>Hoya Saxa1:</p>
<p>I certain respect your opinion…and I gave mine.</p>
<p>Neither opinion was used for the USNWR rankings so I really think it is not productive to keep going.</p>
<p>In regards, to why someone leaves a tenured position, it was for a better opportunity. In this case, I have the opportunity to start my own company.</p>
<p>I enjoyed communicating with everyone but this will be my last post as I get the idea that I am being equating with the ranking which I had nothing to do with.</p>
<p>As a final thought, please consider that the alumni/students of the fine schools that past Georgetown probably feel the ranking has merit and feel that their school has an unbelievable faculty, good facilities and provide a great educational opportunities</p>
<p>I am having a hard time understanding your last statemnt (? “past Georgetown”). Nonetheless, thank you for signing off on this discussion, particularly if you are not willing to substantiate your comments with the benefit of understanding your context.</p>
<p>I hope rads4cure was not a member of Georgetown’s English Department faculty!</p>