<p>Great, creative1 I hope this means you're from Texas. If so whether you go to public school or not, are we not in Texas ignoring education so that we can pass some meaningless test? What's worse is that the teachers are judged only by their students passing rate of the taks. They spend the better part of the year teaching the students to pass the test. This is not what education is about. So back to my point about the SSAT, in the scheme of things, it really is not as important as the other things I rated ahead of it. You ever wonder why we have kids on this thread who on paper look fantastic (grades nd SSAT) only to get rejected by all schools. Maybe this isn't nice, but what I'm saying is that these students have some glaring flaw that no SSAT can save. With all that said, what comes up first on these threads? You got, What's your SSAT score, as if the a high SSAT will save a flawed student. I believe it was momofawildchild who stated recently that her son was ambushed by a bad recomendation. Imho, this score will mean nothing if you have glaring flaws in the other things. No SSAT score can make up for poor grades, poor recomendations, lack of some valuable EC's. Goliedad, I respect your valuable opinion, however, here in texas, rigor imo is practically non existent. I spoke to a young man today, he studies at most one hour per day, he currently has straight A's, He's a Sophmore. My 8th grader can literally run circles around him from an academic sense. Another case in point, I have a part time employee in his first year in college. He took the the most rigorous track at what is considered the best HS in our city. I can run circles around him when it comes to basic algebra. The last time I had algebra 1 was 1969. He had B+ GPA, took a total of 5 AP's and was rejected to every school he applied except UTSA.</p>
<p>Former TX resident - 1989-1997. I do miss many things about TX, though - the warm people, great food (Tex-Mex abd bbq), shopping. But many public schools around the country have to worry too much abt standardized testing thanks to "no child left behind" policy. Don't even get me started.</p>
<p>I think Goaliedad did a great job of summing up what appears to be the bs thought process, and although it is hard to rank the different selection criteria, I agree with you, prepparent, SSATs can be one of the top things. Some of the "second tier" schools (but still very good schools that provide an excellent education) don't even seem to require them. </p>
<p>Of course this may be wishful thinking. My child's abilities show much better in day to day work than on standardized tests. Now child #2 - that's a whole other story.</p>
<p>Oh I also forgot to mention something very important. My emplyee, he is a URM. He is Mexican American. He was rejected from Colby, Juniata College, UT, Rice, Harvard, and a few others. My recollection was that he had an SAT of 1900 plus</p>
<p>Creative1, yes no child left behind. Sorry I didn't realize you were a parent. I moved to Texas when you left. This TAKS test as I recall has been around for at least 5-6 years. It really is sad. How can they possibly develop critical thinking skills and .............. By the way I love Texas , just not big on their teaching philosophy</p>
<p>What's is thought on why he was rejected?</p>
<p>Going back to post #15, I think this might be for a nationally normed test and not the SSAT normed to other SSAT takers. So it would be 92% of the US 8th grade population, and not 92% of SSAT test takers. I know this is off topic at this point, but these numbers did not ring true so I feel the need to comment. I looked up my son's # incorrect and there were very few incorrect. He was higher than 92%, but it could not drop off that much.</p>
<p>Hmm, I really though he would get into Colby. My reasoning was that Colby has very few students of color and they are trying to raise their numbers. I think the major issue was that he applied late and never visited. Maybe they thought he would never attend. Maybe they know that a B+ maybe inflated. I know he rushed to beat the dead line and probably did not have a well though essy.</p>
<p>Burb parent, when I locate the info I'll send it across</p>
<p>Burbparent, here it is..........This is from The princeton Review, cracking the SSAT/ISEE "Here's an example: An 8th grade girl takes the upper level test. She does better than 92 percent of all the 8th graders on the verbal section. How many questions do you think she got right out of 60? 55 questions? 50 questions? Nope. Not even close. She got only 43 verbal questions right. She's in the top 8% of students!" Yes this is for 8th grade testers. Remember 8th graders are compared to other 8th graders only.</p>
<p>Goliedad, you are blessed and you're a good human being.</p>
<p>It must be referring to the general population of 8th graders and not SSAT test takers. I have the 2006 version of that book. I could not find what you are referring to, but I could find the % scores and the # of questions needed. Page 159, 8th grade girls verbal need to get 51 (out of 60) questions in order to score as well as 92% of female 8th grade SSAT test takers. This is on a chart. Sorry to be such a stickler. </p>
<p>I understand the point you were making. Many psychologists today do not think that IQ tests (the original SAT test was an aptitude test) can measure all intelligence. It measures a type of intelligence. High SAT scores are supposed to correlate with high academic success, but it is not a certainty. Many hard workers do just as well because it is not a perfect predictor. </p>
<p>My son was always in an independent school. Our public school is supposed to be among the finest in the country, but every time I talk to someone from the high school, the conversation always turns to the state tests that the independent schools students do not have to take. It seems to me that they spend half their time studying for the tests.</p>
<p>Thank you Prepparent. I think you and many of the other contributors here who share your blessings of experience are also good people as well.</p>
<p>IIRC, doesn't the SSAT give you both a percentile for test takers and one that is nationally normed?</p>
<p>I remember looking at the numbers, seeing the difference between them and coming away with the impression that the test takers are generally assumed to be in the upper quartile of all students.</p>
<p>Of course there are lies, d##### lies, and statistics. So, like you, I don't put much stock in test scores, either.</p>
<p>And strangely enough, the school where my d is going is one of those schools that does not require the SSAT, although they do look at them if you send them. </p>
<p>Of course, it is not one of those schools hung up on taking credit for selecting the "best and brightest" and getting them HYP placement in 4 years either.</p>
<p>Lets pick on one of those schools, say Andover, where the average SSAT is advertised to be the 93rd percentile on Boardingschoolreview - (I am assuming of test takers here, not of the general population - that would be the 99th percentile of the general population).</p>
<p>It is relatively easy to take kids who tests in the top 1% of students nationally and are screened for motivation, breadth of interest, etc. and get 30% of them accepted to Ivy league or top LACs as some of the posted statistics would suggest.</p>
<p>Now take a lower tiered prep school (not gonna take a name here because someone may take offense) whose average SSAT score may be the 50% percentile (of test takers) or about the 90th percentile of all students nationally. I think getting 10% of that group into the same set of schools would be a greater challange for such a school, considering how much further they need to advance these students. And many of these schools do that.</p>
<p>What that tells me is that there is great value added at many of these so-called second tier prep schools and that SSAT scores are only a mark of where you test right now, not where you are going to be in 4 years. As much as statisticians want to project SAT test scores from SSAT scores, it is not a function that is carved in stone unless a student and their school believes that.</p>
<p>About teaching to the state mandated test....</p>
<p>It is universal with NCLB.</p>
<p>I know my son's IEP requires all testing to be done in a separate quiet room (frequently ignored much to his detriment - which gets my DW all riled up every couple of weeks). Somehow, though, they do make sure he takes our state test in a separate room every time. I think that shows you where their priorities are.</p>
<p>I think it's like at colleges, your're not really coinsidered until you have a minimum SSAT score. That threshold might be different for special groups the school wants, but for the general candidates, I think minimum grades and SSATs are needed before anything else matters. It's hard to find anyone at Andover, which has an average SSAT of 95, that has below a 90.</p>
<p>According to Priceton review, getting a 92 on the verbal requires getting 72 % correct. I understand that the SSAT is for 8th through 11 grade or so, but 72% versus say, 62% still will net you a good score. Me no comprende lol, I guess the good thing for 8th graders is that they can still miss a boat load of questions or just skip all the hard one and do the easy ones and still do quite well in the eyes of Andover. St. Paul's average was 88, they obviuosly must not put too much stock in the SSAT, and are imo top bs. Can you imagine how many you can miss with an 88? SPS imo shows you don't have to score big to be successful in bs. </p>
<p>Then as suze says, we have special interest groups, many who may not be able to pay for a review class, maybe they should be able to get concessions. How do we know that schools with top SSAT scores didn't all get private tutoring?</p>
<p>I think SPS has a far larger percentage of legacies than Andover does which probably accountants for the lower SSAT. Let's keep in mind there's a reason the have the largest pp endowement.</p>
<p>Suze, are you saying the SPS SSAT score of 88 ave is due to legacies? Would that be the same for St.Andrews? per student endowment in very close to SPS</p>
<p>I don't know much about St. Andrews. Cousin goes to SPS and brother is applying. Cousin claims that everyone she knows at school who is not a legacy also got into Andover. I also know for a fact that the majority, over 65%, of kids who get into both Andover and SPS choose SPS (don't understand it!). So that's where my belief comes from. Andover and Exeter reached out to minorities and lower socioeconomic kids before other prep schools did. Endowments are fueled by loyal alum.</p>
<p>In looking at my little brother's applications, it struck me there is another important category. Why do preps want to know where your parents went to college? Will they take ivy legacies before others? Sure makes the schools look good without disclosing how many of their ivy goers are legacies.</p>
<p>^^^ i mentioned the same thing back in post #8.</p>
<p>yeah, i think its pretty clear that Ivy (or Ivy equivalant) legacies are pretty important for obvious reasons. basically, what's good for a potential candidate is good for the school in question - if you've got a near shoo-in for Harvard, why not have that person matriculate and boost your matric numbers?</p>
<p>it's a competitive world after all.</p>