<p>Take a look at post 9 here:</p>
<p><a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/international-students/246196-why-uk-schools-so-easy-get-into.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/international-students/246196-why-uk-schools-so-easy-get-into.html</a></p>
<p>And you still haven’t explained why Imperial beats GeorgiaTech and UCSB in all league tables.</p>
<p>I have glanced at your thread, and all I am see is Americans commenting on which is better. And no one gets a price for which they would say. Especially considering their holidays does not go beyond Las Vegas or Miami. Or at best Cancun, not even as far as Mexico city.</p>
<p>You Americans need to look beyond your borders a bit more.</p>
<p>As per the ARWU ranking please see the methodology: [ARWU</a> Ranking Methodology 2009](<a href=“http://www.arwu.org/ARWUMethodology2009.jsp]ARWU”>http://www.arwu.org/ARWUMethodology2009.jsp)</p>
<p>The ARWU is 100% based on research- based on citations and alumni who have done research. The University of Tokyo floors Imperial but the list is overdomintated by Asian Universities. This actually makes sense- Asian Universities (Especially Japanese ones are churning out world class research).</p>
<p>The Thes ranking is a joke- period </p>
<p>This basically tells you good schools for research. Imperials long history gives it an edge over Georgia Tech, but it has not being awarded a Nobel laureate for a long tym. Schools like Washington U, UMinnesota and UT Austin have the same research output as Imperial College. </p>
<p>However, this has nothing to do with </p>
<p>1) Undergraduate prestige of quality of Undergraduate body (British schools have a low quality of students because of their international intake bar Oxbridge). I have observed LSE taking grade inflated American students with GPAs of 3.5 which is pretty average in the US.</p>
<p>2) Students from UWC (United World Colleges) and top international schools aspire for Ivies/Caltech/UMIch/MIT before they even consider Imperial College because of the quality of teaching.</p>
<p>3) In academic quality Georgia Tech is on par with Imperial College period. Imperial College students aspire to do there PhDs at Georgia Tech I am sure- its one of the best schools for engineering. Get your facts right</p>
<p>OK Sefago,</p>
<p>Now that you have explained:</p>
<p>So based on the research-intensive table of ARWU, Imperial still floors both university, does it not?</p>
<p>And for the Times table you claim to be “rubbish”, I hope you realise it is peer ranking-intensive, which means how employers and those in academia percieve the uni, Imperial kills them. So which would you now say is more prestigious and has academic rigour?</p>
<p>Please take a look at post 31 here by an American like you but that has ACTUALLY seen the UK system:</p>
<p><a href=“College Search & Selection - College Confidential Forums…-get-into.html%5B/url%5D”>College Search & Selection - College Confidential Forums…-get-into.html</a></p>
<p>No doubt American University are good places to do a PG due to the immense funds available.</p>
<p>But in technical courses, Imperial is only behind MIT and Caltech.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>The British system is not inferior, its just different.</p>
<p>The Americans i know who’ve studied abroad at Oxbridge lived and studied in their home university owned house in Oxford town, took classes with American professors and only ever visited the actual university to use the library or to eat in the college they were affiliated to. And Oxbridge summer programs have even less to do with the university, whish is to say nothing at all; its just a way to make some money.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Actually Imperial is one of the most respected universities in the fields of science, technology and engineering. People come from all over the world (especially Asia) to study at Imperial. The only reason i know the name Georgia Tech is 'cause of some shooting, and i have no idea what UCSB is.</p>
<p>P.S. I just read your United World College comment sefago, that is FUNNY! My sister attended RCNUWC and i can tell you, the only reason so many of their graduates choose to study in the US is because they get full scholarships. It has very little to do with prestige or world standing.</p>
<p>Imperial is an excellent university, but it does not have the resources to compete with America’s top 10 Engineering programs. I am a big fan of Europe, but when it comes to universities, the European model (Oxbridge excepted) started losing ground in the 1980s and is seriously lagging the US at this point in time. Europe’s research think tanks are amazing, but they are independent and not part of universities. Engineering programs require world class labs and facilities, hundreds of millions of research dollars. Imperial simply doesn’t have what it takes to compete with the likes of Carnegie Mellon, Cornell, Georgia tech, Michigan and UIUC, let alone Cal, Caltech, MIT and Stanford.</p>
<p>Your example is very anecdotal. My friends have never heard of Imperial on a personal basis.</p>
<p>You could also look at post 30 </p>
<p><a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/international-students/246196-why-uk-schools-so-easy-get-into-2.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/international-students/246196-why-uk-schools-so-easy-get-into-2.html</a></p>
<p>“In regards to Oxbridge, I hope you know there is no, and no need for, grade inflation like you have in the Top US unis? You attend based on your capability and if you do not cut the mustard, you do not get the grades. That is student quality”</p>
<p>Well depends. 11% of the classes given at UK schools is first class- 45% is second class upper. So 56% of UK students get a 2:1 or 1st class. UCL/LSE considers a 3.5 a second class upper (However University of edinburgh/Warwick and other top British schools would take you into their masters program with a 3.3 GPA- which would never get you into UCSB/Georgia Tech for a graduate program in engineering (They have averages of 3.8 GPAs) </p>
<p>I would use UCL/LSEs classification. So the average GPA at a typical Ivy league/Top School (Apart from Rice/JHopkinsU/Cornell which are pretty tough) is 3.4X, so that means lower than 50% get british equivalents of a 2:1 and 1st Class. </p>
<p>Except of course Oxbridge has a tighter class distribution. However Oxbridge are happy to consider Americans with a GPA of 3.7 or even less for postgraduate study. Which is usually
the standard for a first class. Grade inflation is not a myth but its a problem both in the UK and US</p>
<p>[British</a> undergraduate degree classification - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia](<a href=“British undergraduate degree classification - Wikipedia”>British undergraduate degree classification - Wikipedia)</p>
<p>“The Americans i know who’ve studied abroad at Oxbridge lived and studied in their home university owned house in Oxford town, took classes with American professors and only ever visited the actual university to use the library or to eat in the college they were affiliated to. And Oxbridge summer programs have even less to do with the university, whish is to say nothing at all; its just a way to make some money.”</p>
<p>Was this a direct exchange program? No it was not- I am talking of a direct exchange program, in which the student resides and registers in one of the Oxford Colleges and does the tutorials. Oxford takes only a select number of schools for this type of program- notably Williams.</p>
<p>“Please take a look at post 31 here by an American like you but that has ACTUALLY seen the UK system”</p>
<p>The American got into Boston College, GW, NYU and then went to UCL- simple sense, why go to Boston College and compete with all the ivy leaguers when you can go to UCL. If he wants to to work as an investment banker he has 0 chance at a job, but a good one at UCL. Interesting he did not consider other top US colleges.</p>
<p>Sometimes, I just don’t understand why UK ppl always have confidence about their education system. Actually, in asia, top students do not consider universities in such a fallen country. oxbridge are still good back-up plans though – full of HYPSMCCC rejects.</p>
<p>Just check the rankings published by OTHER countries to get a picture of UK’s education system.</p>
<p>Sefago,</p>
<p>Yes, post 30 definitely agrees with all I have said. Oxbridge is on par with HYPSM, but no way is Edinburgh or Manchester is in the same league. And yes, the US unis are very rich.</p>
<p>The second point is what is also evident in your ignorance of why you can use low GPA to get into PG programmes in UK.</p>
<p>The UK unis are very happy to lower standards to get foreigners to do their PGs their especially when the US is better for PG due to the immense wealth that can be expended on research. They can charge foreigners more than home students, so they would do almost anything to take them.</p>
<p>But if one does a UG in UK, it is much much tougher. No grade inflation, you sink or swim. The 56% that get 2.1 and above work for it, period. There has NEVER been allegation, debate or suspicion of grade inflation in the UK. So anyone getting a 3.5 GPA in US top schools would struggle or have to work harder to get a 2.1 in the UK.</p>
<p>The top UK unis compare with Caltech in toughness of grading. A sink or swim environment.</p>
<p>In the UK, you do not get into top unis based on some sporting scholarship, it is purely based on academics. If you do not have the academic aptitude, you will sink in the top 10 unis. It just is not possible, it is too rigorous to carry any slacker based on the fact he or she is athletic.</p>
<p>Let me tell something, there are only two universities in the world and they are : Oxford University, UK and Cambridge University, UK. Others…I should sit down and see…if there are any others. Don’t think I am too offensive. I am a student who has studied under the British system of education for the past 14 years. I hate British system. I hate A Levels. But, do you know what? I hate the American system more than British system. IVY league might be a great thing for Americans but finally when it comes about what the world thinks, it is Oxbridge. If you go and ask to someone in Kalahari desert about one university they have ever heard about, they will surely say either Oxford or Cambridge. Not Harvard, Yale or some techno friendly MIT. </p>
<p>Another point, lets see what Harvard has done and what Oxford has done. You people might be known to the fact that Harvard was established by some s**theads who were thrown from Oxford. If you just see the contribution towards everything, starting from the first English dictionary to mastery in Engineering, it was all due to Oxford and other British universities. When Britishers were gaining knowledge and getting diplomas, Americans were running naked in the forests. So, please stop this discussion. There may be 4,000 universities and colleges in the USA, “LIBERAL CURRICULUM” , and blah blah BUT when it comes to excellence, when it comes to the final touch, the utilization of wisdom and the change brought to the world, of course it is Britain.</p>
<p>How many direct exchanges are there? I’m guessing hardly any. Are you saying the 10 people you know who’ve studied abroad at Oxford were on direct exchanges?</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>A what?</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Equally i could say take a look at British rankings for foreign universities, and please don’t waste my time with the whole “your ones suck, mine are better” argument, its just petty ignorance.</p>
<p>"Sometimes, I just don’t understand why UK ppl always have confidence about their education system. Actually, in asia, top students do not consider universities in such a fallen country. oxbridge are still good back-up plans though – full of HYPSMCCC rejects.</p>
<p>Just check the rankings published by OTHER countries to get a picture of UK’s education system."</p>
<p>Its bizarre too lol. I actually recently took an interest in british schools because I decided to consider them for graduate school and their offerings where terrible.</p>
<p>"But if one does a UG in UK, it is much much tougher. No grade inflation, you sink or swim. The 56% that get 2.1 and above work for it, period. There has NEVER been allegation, debate or suspicion of grade inflation in the UK. So anyone getting a 3.5 GPA in US top schools would struggle or have to work harder to get a 2.1 in the UK.</p>
<p>The top UK unis compare with Caltech in toughness of grading. A sink or swim environment. "</p>
<p>SO 56% of the students get a second class upper while around 48% of people at top schools in the US get the equivalent, and your rational is that they work harder than the ivy league student. LOL. 3 of my friends are exchange students at LSE right now- they do far less work and more partying at LSE than they could ever dream of here. The UK has a final exam policy, while US schools test you a lot- that ensures you know the material period.</p>
<p>“How many direct exchanges are there? I’m guessing hardly any. Are you saying the 10 people you know who’ve studied abroad at Oxford were on direct exchanges?”</p>
<p>yeah direct exchanges: Mansfield/Pembroke/ St Catherine e.t.c</p>
<p>I have also known them through the years- not a a go. I also know one kid at Williams</p>
<p>Sefago, it is no secret within and outside the US that there is massive accusations of grade inflation in US unis and even in Harvard. Don’t let us waste our time debating that otherwise I will see you as someone that refuses to debate with facts.</p>
<p>YES, a fraction of the 48% are grade inflations.</p>
<p>Wait and see the grades your friends would get.</p>
<p>“In the UK, you do not get into top unis based on some sporting scholarship, it is purely based on academics. If you do not have the academic aptitude, you will sink in the top 10 unis. It just is not possible, it is too rigorous to carry any slacker based on the fact he or she is athletic.”</p>
<p>Well the royalty that went through saint andrews was not the smartest bunch was he? The high number of kids from Eton/Harrow/ Winchester/St Pauls/ Cheltenham ladies at Oxbridge are purely on merit right? Every system has its inadequacies.</p>
<p>In the US, you dont get into a school based on predicted grades, and cramming for the A-levels in 2 weeks. You get in after showing four years of high-level school work and the SATs. Or at least some talent</p>
<p>“Sefago, it is no secret within and outside the US that there is massive accusations of grade inflation in US unis and even in Harvard. Don’t let us waste our time debating that otherwise I will see you as someone that refuses to debate with facts.”</p>
<p>Really??? Who is accusing who? Your use of passivity is a bit ambiguous.</p>
<p>“Wait and see the grades your friends would get.”</p>
<p>“YES, a fraction of the 48% are grade inflations.”</p>
<p>The ones I know in the past did really well. The ones at St Andrews said it was subpar academics. The others did praise Oxford and LSE for nearly equal rigor but complained about the subpar facilities and the lack of intellectual discussions and educational variety that you had in the US.</p>
<p>From the other side of the fence, I have seen kids from KCL and Warwick come to US universities and struggle with the workload- all I talked to said the workload was more than what they got. I have also convered with LSE graduates doing their postgraduates who said graudate education (masters) was easier than LSE.</p>
<p>Let us not forget that these are the creme de la creme of British schools not to talk of Durham/Bristol and Nottingham which dont register on the map of “quality students”</p>
<p>Sorry, but the elite kids at Eton and co actually have to make the grades before acceptance (bar a Royal kid though, security excuse is enough to overrule anything).</p>
<p>Yes, those in Eton are mainly on merit as they achieve the highest grades. If you go to Eton and get a ABB in A-Levels, you would not get into Oxbridge/LSE/Imperial, simple.</p>
<p>High school work in US is way inferior to the A-Level exams. Even see post 38 by another American here:</p>
<p><a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/international-students/246196-why-uk-schools-so-easy-get-into-3.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/international-students/246196-why-uk-schools-so-easy-get-into-3.html</a></p>
<p>SATs are not even as hard as some African exams if I may say.</p>