Only on these forums is “only” 5 AP courses considered a less rigorous schedule… though the selection suggests that the student is less strong in humanities (English, foreign language, and art) than in other subjects (history, science, math, social studies).
It does depend on the context of the school (including middle school placement decisions in math and perhaps other subjects). For super-selective schools like Stanford that use a counselor recommendation, perhaps the important part of establishing this context is whether the counselor indicates that the student chose the “most demanding” courses and that his academic achievement is “one of the top few I’ve encountered (top 1%)”.
I spent my first 30 years in NorCal and the last 15 in Phoenix, and as a fellow former “rider”, I will say if that’s important to him, be sure to have another safety where that is possible. He’ll definitely get in to ASU and will likely get good merit money, but boarding won’t be a realistic option. It’s 3 hrs to Flagstaff to ski but if you’ve been spoiled by the Sierras, he’ll find it rather pathetic.
Actually, @ucbalumnus the question is specifically with respect to an OOS student applying to GT, which will look for rigor. Elsewhere the OP said the student didnt want to stress themselves, but also said they were taking 3 APs a year,
so I am asking for clarification.
And for a strong student to take “lighter” AP classes and not BC calculus, it may stick out like a sore thumb on the transcript to a school
Like GT where he wants to study CS.
Olin is fantastic training. I would not consider it a traditional college experience and all that entails over time. More like an engineering conservatory.
To clarify, this student has many things to offer that align with what a school like GT looks for. Whether or not they will have any concern for, or look past the course load is hard for us to say. It also depends on what the high school has to offer.
9th grade was junior high and no APs or honors courses were offered.
10th grade he took ChemH, Spanish 4H, and English10H.
11th grade he took AmLitH, BioAP, and APUSH
12th = PhysicsH, AP calcAB, AP stats, and AP Gov/ AP Econ
This will be reported as ‘most rigorous’ b/c the counselors do not recommend more than 3 honors or AP courses per year. But yes, this is a college town public HS with all the crazy competitive bs that comes along with it. I think they offer >20 AP courses. Plenty of kids take a harder schedule. He made a conscious decision to side-step the crazy-train, and I am a-ok with that. I doubt his counselor will list him as most impressive, and she has 300+ students per year so I doubt she even knows who he is.
Kiddo is going to be ok wherever he lands. For his whole life, random adults have pulled me aside to tell me what a great kid he is. He’s confident in a relaxed way, intrinsically motivated, responsible, and wicked-smart.
He is not your typical “36 ACT” applicant (from this HS) and that is why I want to make sure we have good safety/ target schools in the queue. A school like Stanford would be life-changing in the best way, because of its student population, but I think we all understand it’s a very long-shot.
Thanks for all the feedback. Will look into Olin, and happy to hear more suggestions…
I’d be a little more concerned that he’s not taking Calc BC and/or AP Physics instead of some of the other APs he has taken. Not seeing enough hard STEM courses or STEM-related ECs for some of the schools he’s considering and his intended major(s). Hope his essays or teacher recs talk about his at-home garage engineering projects.
Of course, if the HS doesn’t offer those courses, that’s another story. His stats are great, but that’s not the only component. Do any engineering schools still require SAT II subject test scores?
If he wants to “sidestep the crazy train,” it would benefit to have the college list respect that. The reaches are crazy competitive targets. And demanding, once there. Other applicants got on that train. Not only can they show the rigor, but will be versed in the stress, challenge, and managing.
No matter if the GC says Most Demanding (because he took 3 H or AP total,) adcoms will see the transcript. (The full record, not just H or AP.) They’ll see 1 AP per year, can wonder why not 2 or 3 those years, when 20 choices are offered.
Or why AP stats, instead of another AP sci, etc.
Plus the limited ECs. Tinkering is good. But the top reaches will be looking for collaborative math-sci activities. Engaging and integrating with peers is a basic want, kids who fit the community. And a vital skill in CS or engineering.
But most of all, why a list of stretches, if he wants laid back?
1-I’m not sure if I’m following your point. The list is his, not mine. My only addition was ASU as a true safety. Are you suggesting he not apply to those reaches? Why not? If he gets in, and decides he wants to attend, he is absolutely up to the challenge and can manage the stress. Zero worries about that.
2/3- This feels argumentative to me, but maybe that is just a difficulty of tone not coming through. I’m not disagreeing with you on this. I didn’t come here asking for affirmation that his record is a shoe-in for Stanford, I simply wanted feedback on the list based on the record he does have. Sounds like you agree those reaches are reaches.
4- To answer your question, his sports take up a considerable amount of time and are important to him. He really wanted to do FIRST robotics, but the team required a 12h+/ week year-round time commitment and he simply had to choose between sports and robotics. Sports won. [IMO neither group should have required him to choose, but I don’t make the rules and doing both was not an option].
What do you mean by “Kids who fit the community” Which community? What does ‘fit’ look like?
5- Why a list of stretches if he wants laid back? Because the stretches are stretches and he will be lucky if he gets into 1 or 2 of them. He doesn’t need such a long list of matches and safeties, but maybe a few more would be good. As I said above, I’m happy to hear other suggestions…
[Also FWIW I did not say he wanted a laid back college. It’s his list. He knows those schools will be challenging.]
His decision whether to apply. But you both need to understand what they look for and what the pace is like, once there, among peers who stretched in hs, built their basics on rigor, and now establish a higher bar in class andin the work, with higher professor expectations. Those kids are generally tops in academics, and found time for sports, music, volunteering in meaningful ways, peer activities/clubs, friends, and more. It’s that crazy.
All the top colleges care about their college “community.” College life is more than just classes and a few things a kid likes. They look for signs of openness to new experiences, wilingness to try, concern for others. Part of that is recognizing that it’s not just what pleases, but what also prepares one. The ability to lead, as well as follow. Some impact in their activities, at least some of them (related to college.) How one thinks, the level and awareness, is reflected in choices one did make. Unfortunately, many of the competition for an admit did “lean in.”
Reaches aren’t just tough to get into. It’s not like changing to a more demanding high school. Are you concerned that a Stanford might overwhelm him? I’ve seen it happen even to stress-tested kids.
To me, it’s not whether “he” picked them, but on what basis, with what understanding? And is he truly prepared for those reaches?
How about UMass Amherst to add to match schools? Close to winter sports. (Not safety as Engrg. and CS more competitive than rest of program) Also agree with replacing Dartmouth with Cornell.
Original list is very good, so not much to add. If kid is into snow sports, not sure about ASU. However, it’s a very good school for CS and Engrg.
Robotics vs sports is a choice a lot of kids have to make. Both demand after school time on an almost daily basis . When kids list both, I often wonder if the robotics is just a club they just check off. Students from my kid’s high school have done well with engineering or CS admissions without robotics , but with sports or music as a dedicated EC.
Have you visited Colorado School of Mines and UC Boulder? Based on your son’s extracurriculars, he might love Colorado. Both are very good schools but are so different.