<p>Recently my oldest, now 24 and a grad student at MIT, asked us why we didn’t push him harder in HS. He was devastated when he didn’t get into the colleges of his choice. He found his motivation junior year of high school and by then it was too late so he was one of those kids with amazing test scores, science prizes and awards but a GPA that showed his lack of motivation the first 2 years.</p>
<p>When a kid says that doing less well than he can because he chooses not to expend the needed effort I’m going to embark on a serious conversation. He doesn’t have to be great at any one thing but I’m really hoping my kid has a work ethic that makes him want to do his personal best in a scenario where someone has shown the faith in him to extend a second chance. I’m not sure what we’d be saying as parent’s by in any way condoning not making the extra effort when a teacher has given him this chance if he puts in the effort. I would be inclined to tell my kid that along with getting his best possible grade I think the teacher deserves his effort for having the faith to give him the second chance.</p>
<p>What do you want to bet the teacher will think twice about doing this again?</p>
<p>This thread could be about my son, very high SAT scores, but mediocre grades. The kid who can but doesn’t. He would never, ever do something for extra credit. Never. We are trying our best to sit back and let him find his way. It is extremely hard, especially when we see some of his friends who work their butt off for school. Wish I could offer some advice, but we are in the same boat.</p>
<p>I am also not one of those that would back off either. I had my serious talk with my D2 in 9th grade, not 11th grade. I never want her to tell me why I didn’t tell her what it would take for her to get into her college of choice. </p>
<p>Work ethic is key here. For me to keep my job I need to put out 110%. I don’t have the luxury of saying, “hmm, I don’t feel like doing it.” At the same time, if my kid doesn’t have the drive I would adjust what I would be willing to invest, and I would let him know. </p>
<p>I tend to lay out “if you want this, what would it take to get there” and “if you do/don’t do this, what would happen”. I have done it for drug, sex, grades, money, integrity… One thing they do often hear from me is “easy way out may make you happy in a short term, often in life you don’t get a chance for a re-do, so always give it all, to have no regrets later. Above all, don’t ever whine to me about only if I could have…”</p>
<p>My local AA chapter looks like a reunion of my 1968 HS graduation class. All of us have a recollection of feeling that we didn’t measure up to our parents’ expectations. The description we use is “our A’s weren’t good enough.”</p>
<p>We try to de-emphasize grades in our house, and remember that the purpose of grades is to evaluate skills and learning: they are not a goal unto themselves. As a parent, when report cards came home all those years, I did not look at them right away, and sometimes I did not look at them at all. Our kids never knew their class rank or GPA. Honest, it worked better because it kept motivation more authentic. They are doing really well and I’m happy about how it all turned out. (One of mine would never do an extra credit assignent: seh had better things to do; one of mine would do an extra credit assignment if it interested her, and my oldest would do anything anyone gave him to do, full speed ahead, quite happily.)</p>
<p>Sounds like a great kid to me. He probably is motivated more by by interests than incentives. So pay attention to helping him choose and pursue appropriate interests (if he needs any help at all), not to his unresponsiveness to incentives.</p>
<p>You cannot easily make him more “driven” in the way you apparently are. You two are wired differently. But you can draw on the benefits of experience to help him see options that may not have occurred to him. For example, you can help him turn a dull assignment into an interesting one by suggesting ways to re-frame the question.</p>
<p>I have advice to share, as I have a son who has had some of the same issues. But, I am struck by the common thread in the replies that we should accept our offspring as they are, rather than pushing them to do their very best every day…I wonder if this is a uniquely American (or at least Western view). I can’t imagine any of the Asian parents I know giving similar advice…</p>
<p>Often at work we don’t always have boss that turn our assignment into something interesting. There is no point in trying to cuddle him. If he doesn’t do the extra credit, he’ll get an A-. If he is good with that, then he’ll just have to live with it next year.</p>
<p>You know it is so hard to accept marginal behavior. I keep thinking that doing just enough to get buy will come back to haunt him in 10 years. Heck, in another 2 years when he can’t get into the college of his choice. Is he mature enough to understand the consequences? Is it my job as a parent to ensure he works to his potential? My husband and I keep trying to come up with the right answer, but there is no black and white. So for now we try to keep our unmotivated S headed in the right direction but it is frustrating.</p>
<p>Does the “pushing” work? Can one person force another to do something he or she doesn’t want to do?</p>
<p>That’s what’s at issue here.</p>
<p>As for an alternative approach where the drive for top performance is nonnegotiable – we see many posts on this board reflecting the fallout of parents who push too much…</p>
<p>There’s a book called “Influencers” which is an interesting and pretty well-researched book which posits that we accept as a fait acompli many things we can actually help to change through our influence.</p>
<p>I don’t know, though, if pushing works. I have two extremely different kids. Both are motivated in many ways and work incredibly hard in the areas where they are motivated. One is a fantastic student, against incredible odds (dyslexia, dysgraphia). The other is not a student by any stretch of the imagination, but a phenomenal athlete. The athlete is also, btw, the kind of kid every teacher LOVES to have in the classroom, they are all just crazy about her, as a person, and they probably give her a “pass” on a lot of the work less charming kids would have to wade through.</p>
<p>Given the current brain research, I just keep hoping her frontal lobe will get bigger faster! In the meantime, I attempt to influence her to do her work–to varying results.</p>
<p>She’s a strong personality. Nobody in thier right mind would worry about her being successful in the adult world. Still, I sometimes feel like I am completely failing her if I can’t get her to understand the value of hard work. She laughs at me. “Hard work? I work hard every day. I’m focused.” She is. It’s just not where “I” used to think she ought to be focused.</p>
<p>Five mile run! Chunky Monkey! Haagen Daz Coffee. I’m not really kidding. The thing about being frustrated is we lack the ability to communicate effectively. With teenagers, the minute the adult loses thier cool, they lose thier credibility. </p>
<p>Does the pushing help? Probably not. But, as a parent, a part of what we have to be able to know is that we did everything that we could do. Once that is done, we can let it go.</p>
<p>Actually I see a lot more fall out of parents just letting their kids do what they want - “whatever makes you happy.” Maybe not as much so on CC. Kids don’t always do the right thing - given a choice of doing what’s easy vs hard, they would choose easy because often they are focused on short term. It’s also easier for parens not to do anything because it would avoid confrontation.</p>
<p>I do agree at some point it has to be up to the kid. Work ethic is to be instilled at a young age, not at age 17. I feel it is still the parents job to explan the consequences to the kid and it would be up to the kid to do what he wants. I just see it too often parents come on this board to take on the responsibility/worry about their kids don’t have good enough grades to get into certain schools.</p>
<p>Been there too - I think some of the approach is hardwired with the kid - DS1 (09) was never motivated to do the “extra” in a classroom setting - whether the extra was to open the book or to rewrite a paper for an A. He is motivated to do it in a work setting…so, perhaps it does have something to do with the dynamic of the school, the seemingly petty nature of certain assignments (busy-hell according to my DS), or the classroom companions’ influence on brown-nosing type behavior. DD is different - will always do the ‘extra’ - completes all the busy work…</p>
<p>My advice is to also ‘back-off’. I too had an awful year with my DS - and the application process was a nightmare…our relationship was clearly negative for a great deal of time this year because I was always chasing him to complete something and not loving the kid on the couch…Bottom line was I knew that consequences would follow from his behavior, and they did ---- senior slide in grades really hurt him in this admissions’ cycle - and I chased him thinking he would turn around ---- he did not. But, he sees the truth now…
when he saw the seniors’ list of acceptances, and realized that he would be attending a school that he never dreamed he would…</p>
<p>You can try to forestall the disappointment, but, in this context, it is going to happen anyway, so back off when you can…you will be sane, he will find his own path - he may never be a type A but best accept that now than have a ruined relationship. Most kids - IMHO - really do want the parents to be proud of them.</p>
<p>marite, I was thinking of that thread also.</p>
<p>I’m waiting to hear from parents who, faced with a recalcitrant kid, laid down the law and the problem was solved… has never happened in this household…although it has been tried more than once!</p>
<p>Never happened here either. But, I can’t believe that means I should just sit back and let bad behavior happen. Every new year we tell ourselves this is the year he starts acting responsibly.</p>
<p>fendrock - Amen on that one. Perhaps if you have a class A obiedient teenager - but there are none in my house that accept the ‘lay down the law’ route. The harder I try, the harder I fail…</p>
<p>It is hard to see the consequences, and know that your child does not appreciate them. It is hard to get boys (sorry for the sexism here but that is how I have seen it play out) to appreciate that small efforts can produce significant rewards in the big picture…It is hard to watch your son or daughter be dissapointed when they finally get it. Parenting is —just ----- hard.</p>
<p>Many of you parents are not reading the OP’s original post. Did she describe herself as a parent who just let things go? No! She’s been pushing her kid all a long. But now he seems to have gotten the message and has greatly improved. He has now told her to back off–he can handle it. Hmom5-I think your comment is funny. Your son is at grad school at MIT, so obviously things worked out OK for him. If you would have pushed him more in high school you have no idea what would have happened–it could have backfired. I am in no way advocating a laissez-faire attitude to child-rearing but a parent must take into account the temperament of each child as well as their age. A child is more than an intellect, they have emotions and other aspects. You have to look at the whole child.</p>
<p>You know, it’s funny, too. Because would you even want to raise a child who could have “the law laid down” and then send them out into the world? That’s the thing. H and I made a decision when our girls were young that we didn’t want to socialize all the independence and hutzpa out of them and leave them easy to walk all over. So, you pay the price :eek: (sorry, but I just learned how to do that face and find it very exciting!). You either have a kid who can be bossed around or a kid who cannot. We have a cannot. But, it isn’t only in the house, that’s the thing. The kids who know who they are and are willing to stick to it, even with you, are not going to be as easily influenced as thier peers. By ANYONE. So, yeah, it’s a tradeoff, but it probably makes them safer out there where there are a lot of people trying to get them to do a lot of things, and not all of those things are homework!</p>