Kid struggling mightily. Parents too. Don't know where to turn now or next.

Parents Forum
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<p>Son (third-year college student) got a D and a D- in two classes, and B+'s in three other classes. Don't know if this means probation, a mandatory term or two out of school, or what. Grades just became available, child hasn't talked to advisor yet, as far as I know. Total GPA is 2.6. Child hasn't failed a class before, or gotten a grade lower than a C-.</p>

<p>Child supposedly was working with a mental health counselor at school this past semester. (We begged him to get an appointment with one, and he said he did and was seeing one.) Don't know if the issue is depression, poor time management/executive function disorder, procrastination, substance abuse, attention deficit disorder, kid not going to class/working hard enough, bad parenting on parents' part, laziness on his part, or what. Spouse and I have not had contact with mental health counselor and son has not been forthcoming about what counselor has said.</p>

<p>I don't think it would be a bad idea for son to take a semester or year off and figure out what is going on. Spouse is afraid child will not finish college if he quits now. We do not have much money or ability to support child financially indefinitely. Son has been receiving a lot of financial aid at school. (Aid is based on income, not grades.) He is oldest of three sons (other two freshman and sophomore in high school), so we have no other experience with this.</p>

<p>Son has good friends at college and a girlfriend, and earlier said he really wanted to graduate with his class and friends. Don't know if that is feasible or even advisable any more. He has a 20-hour-a-week position this summer with housing and small stipend in his college town. This position is not in a field related to his major or career interests.</p>

<p>Should one of us travel there and meet with son and his academic advisor and mental health professional? Should we request/require he waive confidentiality so we can talk to his academic advisor and mental health professional either in person or by phone? (We have no guarantee he actually followed through and was seeing a mental health professional.) Or are we supposed to let/make him figure out what to do next on his own? (He is 21.) If he isn't on academic suspension, should we encourage him to take a class this summer? I am assuming he will not get credit for the classes he got a D's in. Is it too late for him to change his major? </p>

<p>This child is smart, but not very motivated. He tends to procrastinate and avoid things that are out of his comfort zone. He did great in high school, but he did not have to work hard, and we were able to prod him every once in a while to get things done.</p>

<p>I feel that I am floundering as badly as he is right now. I am not sure what we need to do, or what he needs to do.</p>

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<p>Marionman, I can see where you would be concerned and upset. Clearly something is going on with your son. You can check with the school (maybe even on the website) to see what gpa results in academic probation. I’m pretty sure at my school it is 2.0. We don’t kick kids out with grades like your son’s and likely his school won’t either. They will probably give him a semester to improve his scores, too, if he does get placed on academic probation. </p>

<p>Is your son coming home from school soon? Perhaps after a bit of a respite he will feel more comfortable addressing whatever issues have resulted in his lower than expected grades. I wouldn’t automatically jump to psychopathology, though. Perhaps the upper level classes are just less interesting, more challenging, or both. Perhaps he is having too much fun in other areas of college. Rather than get too terribly upset right now, you might want to consider giving him a few weeks to relax over the summer and then broach the subject of what he might do differently next fall semester to ensure the problems he faced this semester don’t set him back again. If it does come down to time management or organization, his school likely has something like a Learning Center where they could help him structure his binders, planners, etc. at the beginning of the semester after he has received all his syllabi.</p>

<p>Good luck and breathe deep!</p>

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<p>He’s your child, and you’ve raised him for all these years. What do you think is the problem? The things you’ve mentioned like ADD don’t pop up in a 21 year old. </p>

<p>I would put my foot down, go to a counseling session with the advisor, and give son an ultimatum in the form of a fixed amount of money that you are willing to put towards the remainder of his education. Let him figure it out. If he leaves school, he may lose his FA deal, so that is a major problem. He has said he wants to graduate with his friends - give him the chance to prove it.</p>

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<p>First Marionman, my heart goes out you. watching your son struggle like this as he stands between being a young adult and a man is so hard, scaryand difficult for a parent. I don’t know if I have help to offer you, but you will all be in my thoughts. You did not expalin if this was sudden this year or if his other years of college were also this difficult? If this is a sudden change in personality, like you described, I would be inclined to schedule a visit to see him in person to feel the situation out. IMO, sometimes a face-to-face gives you the non-verbals and he may give you a great deal more info about academics and issues goings on in his personal life. I would encourage visiting a mental health professional as well as his academic advisor. This is a good time of year to try to get this settled and see what is going on with him. Blessing to you and your family.</p>

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<p>You are going to get a divided group here that holds the positions of either let him figure it out or you get involved. It is so difficult in these situations because we don’t know how involved you were in High School and how your son’s High School success was achieved (was he self modivating in high school with only a few pushes by you, or were you the tug boat)</p>

<p>With that said, in our family (and this is what works for us, and I am not saying it is the answer for everyone) if we are financing college, then all the privacy forms need to be signed so we have access, if needed, without a struggle. My kids are all pretty open and my D that is about to start college does not see why you wouldn’t sign a HIPPA to have a parent have medical record access. But not all kids see it that way and your son may have a reason that his privacy is important. He could be embarassed that he is seeing a MH specialist (which I don’t know why this bothers people…the brain is part of the body too…people act like depression, anxiety, etc are such “defects” but really? If your body was not producing insulin you would take it wouldn’t you…no stigma…but a chemical missing in the brain creates such drama…who knows why)</p>

<p>You really have to go with your gut on this one. You obviously have access to his grades so I feel at this point it is appropriate to join forces with him, go to the campus (I might be inclined to send him to his academic advisor alone…but be there right after to make sure you understand what the outcome is) and see if you can work this out. I would really focus on the cause of this issue, not how to fix what it caused.</p>

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<p>I would want to see him, be around him, and talk to everyone at the school who is willing/able to talk to you.</p>

<p>We brought Son home after the '10-'11 school year, which was about the only option under the circumstances. However, I think it damaged him. He had a taste of independence and it is gone. He had a taste of hanging with other smart kids and it is gone. He had some new friends. They are gone. He is pretty much lost and in a fog, taking fewer and fewer cc classes, manifesting more and more serious psychological and medical symptoms. So sometimes, bringing them home doesn’t work out well. If you can afford to keep him there and the environment appears to be healthy, I’d let him have another try.</p>

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<p>I don’t mean to make light of the situation, but I don’t see any major reason for alarm. He’s a junior and he got his first two D’s. What’s his major? Maybe the upper level classes are getting tougher and he just needs to adjust a little. I think colleges look at the cumulative GPA for academic probation, not one bad semester. And besides, 2 D’s and 3 B’s would still be over a 2.0, which is usually the cutoff. He did fine for 5 semesters, and now he’s a senior - he’s almost made it! This is probably just a blip, don’t freak out.</p>

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<p>I sent you a PM</p>

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<p>In high school, son did and kept up with school work on his own 99 percent of the time. Things were not pretty but he was smart enough that it did not matter and his grades were still great. Test scores were tip-top. During high school he procrastinated a lot about helping around the house, finding a summer job, and some (not all) extracurricular activities. Scholarship and college applications took a lot of prodding. A lot.</p>

<p>College has been an ever-worsening struggle. He actually had a tutor in the class in which he got a D-. (At least he said he did.) We have been asking him to get academic center, mental health, and-or career services (for finding summer job or internship) counseling for the past two years. He says he will. Then doesn’t. I am not optimistic that he will develop a plan to deal with these issues or follow through on any plan that is developed.</p>

<p>I am scared. Obviously. One of my biggest fears is that he will be unable or unwilling to support himself eventually. He has very little work experience and none in his field. When he has said he is struggling in a class, we have told him to get a tutor and go to the professors’ office hours. He says yeah, yeah, he will, but typically later he will admit he did not. He applied for a total of four jobs, internships or programs this summer. We cannot afford to support him forever. We have other kids to educate and our retirement is far from secure or adequately funded.</p>

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<p>I know how hard this is for you. But I am with the (small) group that thinks you may be raising the worry level beyond where it belongs.</p>

<p>AFAIK, a 2.6 will not jeopardize his ability to graduate.</p>

<p>What is he saying is the cause of the two low grades? Really tough classes in subject matter he might not have to continue with (electives?), so won’t recur? Advanced courses in his major or related field, so therefore a red flag?</p>

<p>I would want to know answers to these substantive questions as well as his perspective.</p>

<p>It’s a little hard for me to see where a mental health issue would result in 3 great grades and 2 poor ones. Ditto poor study skills/procrastination, etc. But that pattern is, I suppose, a possibility.</p>

<p>A lot depends on why the 3 good/2 bad result and how he sees it.</p>

<p>IMO, you will certainly want to see if he is “himself” or seems depressed or having other issues. Isn’t the term now over? So he will be home? I wouldn’t think it advisable for you to run in there now (if the year is over) and start intervening with advisors etc. I think if it is possible for him to figure out/own what is wrong… best to help him handle it himself.</p>

<p>Helping him handle it might include brainstorming how he will manage time, select courses, add summer school or not… Might include setting boundaries about whether parents are sticking to a “we pay for 4 years only” plan or will support additional year(s) to get the degree. There are pros and cons to each of these, of course, as sometimes firm boundaries pull a kid into line if he was lazy or had poor priorities. Sometimes such boundaries could engender a melt-down or revolt.</p>

<p>Hope you can take a deep deep breath and allow some time to learn more, figure things out.</p>

<p>Parenting ain’t easy.</p>

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<p>Big hugs for you. Yes, it hurts. I went through the same thing with my oldest. It was a very tough go. He is 27 and just finally got a job that pays enough to support him and allowed him to move out of the house, It isn’t easy. With all of our kids and others in college, we could not subsidize him or his brother when he finished school We could offer love, support and “3 meals and a cot”. </p>

<p>It’s so dependent on so many things as to what to do and really it often makes no difference. I just give the hugs and love and let them know that they are welcome here. The stick comes in the form of house rules. G rated house here and courtesies have to be observed. Tough for a college kid to do. Also, they can’t lie around all day. Gotta find a job, something to do. But I try to keep it upbeat even though there were are are times it hurts.</p>

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<p>

Actually in smart kids learning disabilities that are more subtle can take that long to show up. DD was not diagnosed until almost 21 because until college she could compensate in other ways. College was when it got to be much harder. </p>

<p>You should not rule out testing for the more discrete LDs if he gets home and says he really tried hard but it just would not work. Listen to his description of the issues, thoughts flying around, sounds distracting him, things just not where they should be, what he thought he read was not what was there, particularly on tests. If the 2 subjects relate to math, do the numbers move on him so that what he writes down is not what is there? Is the answer he marked down not what he thought he answered? Processing issues can be hard to diagnose unless you get complete testing done. </p>

<p>BTW - procrastination can be a symptom. It is natural to try to avoid that which seems impossible to do. I liken it to someone who needs glasses being made to drive on a high speed congested road. They know they can’t so they won’t try. Getting tested and then developing a plan can be like giving him glasses - the tools needed to get on the highway.</p>

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<p>I tend to agree with whoever said that his brains might have been enough to get him through up until now, but since he is hitting those harder, upper-level courses his poor habits/study skills have finally caught up with him.</p>

<p>Sounds almost silly, but tell him that no one would suggest that someone who was farsighted should go through college without corrective lenses and so he needs to talk to someone who can evaluate and treat him for whatever psychological issues might be holding him back. And then find a counselor near home over the summer and get him started. If you have to, make his going back to college conditional on getting help this summer.</p>

<p>My son was finally diagnosed with ADD after his freshman year of college, and counselling and medication have helped with his grades.</p>

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<p>Singersmom07 and I cross-posted. Funny how the eyesight analogy occurred to both of us.</p>

<p>My son was not thrilled with seeing a psychologist at first (although now has a good relationship with his), but he realized that he had nothing to lose – especially since his problems were standing in the way of his goals for himself.</p>

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<p>I do think this problem is more prevalent in boys (not that it doesn’t occur in girls, as well). My son is pretty much the same way. Very smart, but unmotivated, disorganized, and doesn’t really know how to study. He will be 16 next month and the advanced classes he is taking in hs are beginning to tax his executive functioning. Since he also has very mild Tourette’s Syndrome, I was on the look out for the ADHD/ADD and executive functioning disorder. However, in any other family where they were not savvy to the signs of ADD in very bright kids, the inconsistency in his grades would just spell laziness (not that there isn’t some of that involved, too).</p>

<p>So, you may have to recognize, and help your son recognize that his brain may possibly be wired a bit differently. In 80-90% of situations, he will make it through just fine with his inherent intelligence. However, in some classes, with certain teacher, and with specific pedagogical styles - he will be more challenged.</p>

<p>I have to ask, in hs did you son ever evidence a pattern of grades on assignments like: A, A, A, D, B+, A, A, A, F, F, A ,A, A?</p>

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<p>Singersmom -
You misunderstood my meaning. I am asking the OP to look for a behavioral pattern in his child. Things like ADD don’t just pop up in the 20’s - there is an indication from an earlier age. Diagnosis, of course, may not be made until young adulthood or even later, but the behavioral pattern is longstanding.
I didn’t see crucial changes described in this student’s actions that would make me think of mental illness, nor the type of problems associated with a dysfunctional disorder. With the additional post from the parent, I see a student of high intelligence and a tendency to not take enough responsibility; this makes me think that setting limits will be most effective in the long run. And I agree with many other posters who think that this is more of a bump in the road to adulthood than a full-fledge detour.</p>

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<p>OP</p>

<p>So much good advice here.</p>

<p>I vote that one of you does go to see your son.</p>

<p>You may not get him to sign all the waivers, etc., but a face to face meeting would probably uncover more than phone calls. I got the impression he would not be traveling home at all this summer, so going to him would be a priority if I were you.</p>

<p>I also don’t think the grades are the biggest concern. I hit a course in college that I just could not get thru no matter what I did. I got that “D” for diploma and was happy to have that required class behind me. If your son can sit with you and analyze why the courses were so difficult it could go a long way in knowing what to avoid next year and what types of jobs may not cut it. You don’t say what the courses were, but I’d bet the B+ courses and the D courses had very different requirements.</p>

<p>As far as ADD - my high IQ son was diagnosed in 6th grade. If he had a different teacher, he probably would never had been diagnosed. His diagnosis led us to learn my husband also is ADD. The inattentive ADD w/ EF issues are very easily masked us other things. Many adults who have it, like my DH, developed coping skills and rely on others for certain things. It is expensive and difficult to diagnosis as an adult. If you can have your son go through his school for LD testing, I urge you to take advantage of it.</p>

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<p>People have given good advice, and I agree about doing an evaluation, not only to rule in or rule out things, but to get strategies for dealing with college more effectively (and maybe even happily).</p>

<p>The only thing I would add, which may sound frivolous, is to maybe go for a long drive with him (from college to home?). I find that the best talks happen that way, and many long-disguised truths are revealed. Something about sitting in that space, not looking at each other, while moving, seems to break down barriers.</p>

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<p>As someone mentioned, it may be that your son had the misfortune to encounter two classes for which he simply had no aptitude.</p>

<p>My Son had a friend who could not pass Latin III for the life of him. Under “no pass no play” he was constantly missing performances, so much so that the next year he was not chosen to be in a select ensemble because he was not seen as academically dependable. EXCEPT that it was only Latin III that was the problem. He was not a dumb kid, he was not a lazy kid, he was not a terrible student. He was just terrible in that one class.</p>

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<p>I tend to think that when parents are concerned about something regarding their children that gut reaction is usually correct. I think to just brush it under the rug and assume it was a “rough semester” might be a foolish thing to do. If he is getting D’s in classes and he is entering his senior year, he may be either in the wrong major or is having a difficult time with the idea of growing up and handling his responsibilties. There are many kids this age that still have not mastered the idea of time management or priorities. </p>

<p>If this were my kid I would go to see him so you can see first hand how he looks and what his attitude is. Over the phone just does’nt provide the same info that an in person heart to heart does. It is easy to paint a better picture over the phone. The other concern is that as a upcoming senior with his GPA and no internships in his field of study the job prospects may not be what he was hoping for. As far an executive functioning or ADHD…it could very well be, and he just managed to eack by all of these years because he is very bright. I had a similar experience with one of my kids, and my gut reaction was correct but that happened after her freshman year. We refused to let her continue at her school, and she came home. Now she is entering her senior year at the state university, doing fine academically, not really what I would call a student or interested in learning for learning sake but she is finishing up on time. Some kids just don’t follow the typical path because they are wired differently…some have undiagnosed LD’s, ADHD, or depression and some have a combo of the above.</p>

<p>I feel for you because you are probably correct in thinking you need to intervene. Mom’s seem to know these things. The good news is that he only has a year left so even if he took a break he doesn’t have long to go before he graduates.</p>

<p>By the way I agree with compmom in that a long car ride is often a great way to get them to talk. There is something about them not having to look at you and being trapped in that car that just works miracles.</p>