<p>The professor will curve.</p>
<p>If he doesn’t curve, the dean will curve it for him.</p>
<p>Again, I am not in any way surprised by the class average. I don’t know how many different ways to say that I have experienced the same “system”. My husband (who is a chemist in a university research lab; albeit no instructional responsibilities) has experienced it to a much greater extent than me. (Biochem was the terminal chem class for me, thankfully!) MANY of the people in my social group are PhDs, including my best friend. </p>
<p>I know at this point that many of you just don’t believe that in this area I know what normal/average is–it’s hard in an online forum to trust my professional (and former student) experience when I tell you that everything about this situation is WAY beyond the realm of normal–and the reason I asked the original question. I am surprised at the number of people who are absolutely sure that professional misconduct can’t possibly be the issue here. </p>
<p>What I AM surprised by is that this instructor is so adamant that the average of 51% IS failing work and that he IS going to fail 1/2 of the class (which we are all sure he’s not or he wouldn’t keep his job), that students are scared to death to ask questions in class. Son says it’s obvious in every way he hates his job, hates the students and hates the other faculty. He says students haven’t asked a question in class in 3 weeks. Another student in his office at the same time son was there, was summarily “dismissed” as her question was not “worthy of this university.” She left in tears. </p>
<p>I would have given all of these details in my first post, and in fact had a LOT of them in my original draft, but it was too long and I had hoped that you would just take my word for it when I indicated there was a problem with the behavior (including the crazy threats about the grades). </p>
<p>Regarding the AP disussion: The professors at this university(and others) have determined that an AP TEST score (not the class grade) demonstrates proficiency in the subject, sufficient that the first two courses can be “skipped”. Because it is so hard to graduate in 4 years, advisors are encouraging students to take the credits and skip the classes, so they can “get on with it”. I doubt they would say that if it meant that students were not sufficiently prepared for Chem II or III. </p>
<p>Harvard gives credit for the first class, with a high score (not sure if it’s 4 or 5) Princeton gives credit for Chem 201 for a 5 on the AP test. (note a 200 level chem class, here) Dartmouth lets students skip Chem 5 (which I presume must be chem 1). At STANFORD, students who score a 5 on the AP test START with Organic Chemistry. </p>
<p>Anyway, update on son’s plan: He chickened out on meeting with anyone. He feels happy (in fact, I’d say proud at this point) that he has a C+. He did send me a copy of the letter he wrote. It didn’t say one word about his or anyone’s grades. It’s very short, but he just basically said the hostile language/comments, the too-frequent f-bombs, and the “belligerant demeanor” in general need some attention. I thought he should mention the profs threats, which he’s not waivered from, (and the class ended TODAY) to fail half the class. Son thinks that those students can fight that fight themselves, and that a student with a C+ won’t be taken to seriously if he starts complaining about grade issues.</p>
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<p>I, along with others I’m sure, were responding to this statement in your OP.</p>
<p>If no individual is going to engage upper management in discussing this professor, then everyone will get a chance to fill out evaluations at the end of the class and lambast him then. If you can’t save yourself, then at least you can save the next generation of freshmen from him.</p>
<p>scubasue, I think it would be really beneficial for your son to meet with a faculty-member adviser in chemistry ASAP, if he has one. My reasoning is this: my university requires that the professors’ grades constitute a “good faith” estimate of the performance in the course. It is very difficult to prove “bad faith,” and so it is actually quite difficult to have any grades changed after the fact, even for an entire class when grading has gone wrong. Other universities may well operate in this way–I am sure we didn’t invent it.</p>
<p>In fact, I recall one time when a faculty colleague of mine, who was moving to another university, gave most of the grad students in his graduate-level class very low grades. This potentially endangered their continuation in the graduate program. Those grades were allowed to stand, once given.</p>
<p>In contrast, if warned ahead of time about a potential problem, the senior faculty in the department and/or the department chairman can explain to the instructor what the general grading policy is. A letter that complains about professorial incivility, but does not mention grades will not get that job (of raising the alert) done. A good student with a C+ might actually be in a pretty strong position to raise the grade issue, on behalf of others in the class.</p>
<p>(It could be different at a college that has someone whose job it is to look after student interests–most large universities do not have someone who could change grades wholesale.)</p>
<p>Yet a bit more advice: it doesn’t sound to me as though the prof is at the point in his career where he’s being considered for tenure, and didn’t get it. However, his actions seem like that–some people go “rogue” in that situation. In that case, there may not be much of anything that can be done. The prof would hardly be likely to take his colleagues’ advice, in those circumstances.</p>
<p>However, there is the issue of students with scholarships that require a certain GPA to be kept. In a circumstance like this, if the university knows about it, they would almost certainly exclude the course from the GPA calculations, or else give the affected students extra time to bring their GPA’s up. The university might even be able to prepare some kind of explanatory/exculpatory statement for outside scholarship sources.</p>
<p>If your son’s university runs like mine, the university’s data processing that gives the average grade awarded course by course, as well as other statistical data, may be too slow to be completed in time for scholarship renewal considerations. This is another reason why the students need to talk with someone.</p>
<p>QuantMech: I agree with you, but son’s reasoning is that he doesn’t want to jeopardize his chance of having his grade curved even a little, if that does happen at that end. Compared to the distress that his classmates are feeling right now, he feels very happy and is afraid of what will happen if the prof finds out who made the complaints. He’s just barely 18, a small town kid without much “big world” experience and he’s afraid. We all know that this will likely not be his only C in his college career, but he has come a long way in few weeks with just coming to terms with that. </p>
<p>Apparently the workshop and lab instructors (both profs) are aware there is a problem, but son doesn’t have any idea if either of them are advocating for this group of students or not. </p>
<p>Interestingly, he does have a merit scholarship at this school but his cum GPA is well above the minimum 3.0 required to keep that award. I would like to think that he is mature enough to put his interests on the back burner and just worry about helping his friends who are struggling, but realistically, I don’t think that he’s there yet. </p>
<p>I will pass on your advice. At the very minimum, maybe I can persuade him to go see his advisor as you and others have suggested. But I won’t be too surprised if he doesn’t change his mind. He has printed out the blackboard reports of all of his test scores and class averages/medians, and has copies of same from a few other students with different Chem I profs, so maybe I can get him to include those with his letter, but again, at this point, he’s saying it will be after the fact.</p>
<p>Oh, and I looked, faculty at this school aren’t eligible for tenure until after 6 years of service. So, he’s nowhere near that stage.</p>
<p>Does your son’s college have an ombudsman for students? If so, that person could potentially be very helpful in a situation like this, especially if the comparative scores from different sections of the same course are available.</p>
<p>Also, an ombudsman would typically be required to keep the identity of the student confidential, if the complaint is general to the course.</p>
<p>There is a Dean of Students, who I assume has the responsibilities similar to what you are thinking of. At my college, the person in that office handles official grievances, but faculty are made aware of the “accuser’s” identity immediately.</p>
<p>I was very interested to hear that your friend, and administrator at another school, would welcome hearing from a parent in a situation like this. I sometimes think we parents overreact to the accusation of helicoptering. If a parent who is paying $200k for college education can not comment when there is a severe problem, then something is very wrong. This situation sounds to me like one where the administration should be alerted by parents. It is so easy to pass of freshmen as being overwhelmed, not used to the college level work, etc. It is very very very wrong to have a situation where students are frightened into silence, and where students walk away from an office consult in tears after being ridiculed. We parents sometimes have to push past fears of being labeled. Many parents should be contacting the school on this one, IMHO.</p>
<p>Hugcheck, it’s interesting you make that particular point, because my dean (though not really my friend) did say that parents and taxpayers are the customers as much, if not more, than the students.</p>
<p>The dean probably would welcome hearing from a parent, as opposed to having the parents contact the president or the board instead, and having the message about the problem directed down toward the dean. (This happened with my predecessor–generally speaking, not good!) This is the reason I keep suggesting to start with the departmental adviser or chairman.</p>
<p>Hi All,
I thought I would pop back in here for an update. As most everyone suspected, this prof curved the grades in my son’s chem class–apparently by a LOT. Son was confident of a C+ and hoped for a B- since this prof insisted he was not going to curve the grades. Grades came out today and S received an A! </p>
<p>Obviously, I am thrilled with the grade. But this turn of events further reinforces my opinion that this particular professor is completely unprofessional! </p>
<p>S says his letter is laying on his desk at school and will be delivered as soon as he gets back from break. He too is thrilled with his grade and happy for his friends who really believed they were going to fail (or get a D) and (presumably) did not. </p>
<p>FWIW: since I last posted on this thread, I found the grade distribution stats for this course at S’s university posted online. Average overall fail rate is 6%. A few profs failed as few as 2-3% and one prof failed 13%.</p>
<p>Fantastic! Not suprised.</p>
<p>Make sure your son is absolutely certain he will not have to take this prof again, and that this prof is not influential in the area of research your son is interested in entering into, before he gets involved in the rest of it.</p>
<p>Keep in mind that every single student in that class had the opportunity to handle the situation with the equanimity and maturity your son showed, and it’s not his job to “clear out the bad teachers.” (IF it can even be done.)</p>
<p>D had a horror of an Orgo prof, but she has turned out to be her research supervisor, and is an amazing researcher, and has offered D a credit on an article. So, just an aside, but mostly, that’s great for you son. Glad he was savvy enough to stick it out.</p>
<p>I had a biochem professor who was so bad that he was presented with a bucket of tar and feathers by a group of students on the last day of his class. He was fired afterwards.</p>
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<p>It would also be interesting to know what percent of students dropped the course.</p>
<p>I’m glad it all worked out so well! Congrats to him for putting in the hard work, and congrats to you for not stepping in. But for the future:</p>
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<p>Now he’s gone through that inevitable engineering experience, and he’ll feel more confident in the future. If he just maintains that discipline and self-control, he’ll be able to handle it - and you won’t need to fight your natural “swoop in and fix it” reflex, so you can relax more too. (You did all your own worrying back when you were in college!)</p>
<p>Glad to hear of the outcome! And agreed that this was a very weird teaching “technique,” to get the students to work their hardest–if that’s what it was. Wouldn’t recommend it to any other profs.</p>
<p>OP -This is to pass on to your son (if the “A” didn’t solve his problem and he still thinks a complaint is appropriate): I think I may know which school your son goes to. In post #67, QuantMech asked you if there was an omsbudman for students. If I’m correct about which school, there is an omsbud program. From their information about themselves they say:</p>
<p>“What is an Ombuds? An person who assists individuals and groups with resolving concerns or problems. See the Ombuds for confidential, informal, impartial, and independent assistance.”</p>
<p>To check, go to their web site — ombuds.(name of university).edu. </p>
<p>Your son could also contribute to the professor ratings site by submitting a fair review. It not only helps other students, but I think many of the professors read them and they can be very responsive to constructive criticism.</p>
<p>Intro math and science courses at big research universities usually have ridiculously low averages to weed people out. But it’s all relative so as long as he is doing better than everyone else, it doesn’t matter. I took an exam a few days ago with a 46% mean and I got an A with a 61%.</p>
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<p>Exactly my thought. It’s one thing to weed out students because they turn out not to be able to handle the material, quite another to weed out students by false claims that they are going to fail the course. We have no reason to believe that the students weeded out by this course were less able Chem students than the students who remained. Surely some promising chemists thought to themselves, “OMG, I love chemistry but if I fail this course, I lose my scholarship and there’s no way my parents could afford my tuition. So I’ll have to drop.” It’s unconscionable to lie to students like this professor did.</p>