<p>hehehehe…it brings back bad memories for me too. I am all too familiar with what is “normal” in these majors 'cause I have definitely been there. But this situation is way beyond normal, by anyone’s standards.</p>
<p>Unfamiliar questions is one thing…a VERY good test strategy. Not being able to understand the question is another…</p>
<p>And while attacking unfamiliar situations is an engineering skill, it probably isn’t as necessary in a nutrionist’s skill set.</p>
<p>Read the thread about the sex ed prof at Northwestern- this prof will seem much better:)</p>
<p>emeralkitty, that is FUNNY…and yes, that story has helped keep things in perspective…</p>
<p>Routine profanity in the classroom is unacceptable as is insulting students. While the academic dean might not be of assistance, the students might want to visit with the office of the dean of students. These people can act as student advocates and identify situations to the provost or chancellor/president where professors are mistreating students. And btw, tenure is not a guaranteed get out of jail card. Tenured professors are often disciplined, although frankly it is easier to discipline a food service worker or custodian.</p>
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<p>professors never let kids have copies of the tests anymore. Even in chem. They don’t want to write new tests every year. I was really shocked by this when D started last year.</p>
<p>This guy sounds like an incompetent brute. His classroom demeanor alone is highly unprofessional. How can the university possibly stand by and let him fail half the class, forcing able students into transferring school or major, some probably losing scholarships, while other instructors teaching THE SAME CLASS do not? If indeed he has done this in prior semesters, he should have been disciplined and the students’ grades adjusted after the first episode. If he did it again he should have been fired. I’m sure the university would have no trouble finding someone else to teach Chem 1.</p>
<p>This defense of this as a “weeder” class is pretty ridiculous, IMHO. There is a difference between a class that is extremely challenging yet fair, and a class like this. </p>
<p>Equally questionable IMHO is the idea that weeders are needed, even dealing with top students, because lives are at stake. Potential premeds on CC are frequently advised to go to a less challenging school where they can more easily rack up a good GPA. When I look at the diplomas on the wall in my dr’s office, I don’t see ANY T20 universities. Mostly the kind of place kids are admitted to with 550s on each section of the SAT. Somehow they manage to get into med school and apparently don’t kill too many patients. Doctors are not necessarily the brightest students (nor are engineers).</p>
<p>To answer the original question, it sounds like your S has matters well in hand. Going to his advisor before the dean is a good idea, but I wouldn’t let the advisor put him off of proceeding up the ladder.</p>
<p>The idea that Chem I is a weeder class at a top science/technical college is akin to saying that Trigonometry is a weeder class at MIT. 
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<p>Chem I should weed out the lazy students, or those who think they don’t need to bother going to lab. But we’re talking about those with demonstrated ability and motivation i.e…attending the workshops and study groups, doing fine in physics, calc and computer science, etc. </p>
<p>I figured out this is only his 2nd quarter. Again, I doubt that he will follow through on his threats, but it’s obvious to me that he is getting his jollies bullying these students.</p>
<p>My explanations come directly from the chemistry dept at a top 10 university. They are not MY OPINIONS, they are the basic way things are done. I don’t “agree” or “disagree” with any of them.</p>
<p>Scubasue, please let us know how it turns out. I’d be verrrrry interested to hear if the professor is still teaching the class this time next year. I’m guessing, “Yes.” It is so insanely difficult to get a position at a “top science/technical college” like “MIT” these days, that I’m sure he is far more credentialed than we are. ;)</p>
<p>Graduated from top-10 Chemistry department over 20 years ago myself, I understand exactly what your son is going through. Well, yes, Chemistry is one of these weed-out classes. Hang-in there. Life sucks sometimes…</p>
<p>My vote is to stay out of it. I think your son is handling it well.</p>
<p>poetgrl…so do mine…</p>
<p>Really, I didn’t ask about how hard the class should be…I have first hand knowledge about that from several levels. Again, as I have tried to point out, if what you are saying is true, it would be the case in every Chem I class. There are over a dozen chem sections being taught at this school winter quarter. It ABSOLUTELY is not the way things are done there. </p>
<p>I asked about how to deal with an unprofessional/incompetent instructor, which contrary to some opinions here, does happen.</p>
<p>Chem profs and also many engineering profs, physics, math profs, these are not the people professors of any university, with the rare and wonderful exception, which it sounds as if the other chem prof is…so the chasm is wide.</p>
<p>I don’t think, unlike some posters here, that there is much that CAN be done about poor quality of teaching in these kinds of classes. Your son will likely encounter this from time to time in his chosen major. Sad but true.</p>
<p>If you think I think this is a ‘good’ thing, you are misunderstanding me. I think it is a reality in these majors, and something that mostly can’t be helped by a student or a parent. This professor most likely brings something else to the school which is important to them, oddly, many things are more important to schools than first year students, but that just seems to be the way it is.</p>
<p>I will post no more, though I would be verrry interested to hear if anything is actually done. IMHO, the best recourse a student has is to just avoid the worst profs when possible and to go to office hours with the dificult profs every single week. The prof will gain an interest and telegraph the knowledge he/she will test for, because he/she will feel invested in this particular student.</p>
<p>Good luck to your son. And, don’t worry. As time goes by, the kids stop reporting in about stuff like this and leave you free to pursue your own interests. Again, good luck.</p>
<p>“it sounds as if the other chem prof is…so the chasm is wide”</p>
<p>“THE” other prof? There are 39 profs listed for the list of chem 1 profs in the ratings system (not ratemyprofessor–this school has their own system). That is the number who have taught at any time in the last 5 years though. I assume not that many teach the class every year. </p>
<p>Average rating is 2.72/4 stars…and I understand that that rating is somewhat skewed by unhappy students. But the point it that is one indication that, while being a “people” person might be the exception among chemists, being a competent instructor is not. And,it is ALSO an indication that since 2006 (the earliest post) students are, at worst, generally “satisfied” with their Chem 1 experience.</p>
<p>I don’t think this notion of introductory chemistry being a weed-out class is a fact of nature. I am learning from this thread that it’s treated that way at some universities. But I’m not convinced that this is an innate feature of the discipline. My D is a chem major at a top 1 LAC (:-)). At her college, students are sorted into one of three introductory chemistry classes based on a department placement test. After one semester, they are all together in organic chemistry. As far as I can tell, no one is expected or planned to fail, and they don’t.</p>
<p>I, like other posters do not think it is necessarily fair (or right) the way your S’s class is being handled. I am just saying I’ve seen it happen (unfortunately a lot). I am still skeptical about him giving D’s and F’s to half the class if this is not even close to what most of the other professor’s do. I know the test averages are quite low, but they do pick up a little from their lab grades (20%?). I think S needs to keep doing what he is doing (sounds like the B- is pretty impressive with this guy) and wait until the actual quarter (semester) grades come out–maybe this guy is just trying to scare them (that would be mean) and will curve the final grades up to a C average???</p>
<p>Anyway, if he gives D’s and F’s to 50% the class and the other professors gives D’s and F’s to only 20% of the class, then S might have a leg to stand on with the Dean. Tell him to make sure he has all of his facts straight before he complains.</p>
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<p>This is typical for the nearby UC in the General Chemistry 3 quarter course. The grades were curved at the end of the quarter, so do not despair. It could be chemistry professors in general–but if the median scores aren’t in the 50s, the professor thought that he wrote too easy of a test…:eek:</p>
<p>Son is also an engineering major.
His courses are hard and harder. Lots of work. Grades on tests… Same as your son. He is in the top, the mean is always low. That’s the way it is.
I would never call the school based on this (or likely anything else). This situation is not uncommon, especially in the sciences/engineering.</p>
<p>There’s nothing inherently wrong with a mean of about 50 on a midterm. What’s very unusual is the combination of a rigid grading scale with this kind of mean, so that this would be failing.</p>
<p>I recall an exam during my undergrad days with a mean of 28 and a mode of 4. The overwhelming majority of the class passed anyway.</p>
<p>Yes, exactly, quantmech, and that is NOT the case in an AP chem class, which is still graded and taught as a HIGH SCHOOL class. So, you get these first years who think armageddon has arrived at the slightest hint of a 93%, and you put them in a class with a chem prof, who is used to the university chem culture, and it makes for an interesting first year.</p>
<p>Parents add to the fire by freaking out, too, instead of saying, “Well, it’s CHEM! IT’S CALC III! What do you EXPECT???” because, honestly, what DO you expect? It’s not high school.</p>
<p>I agree for the most part, poetgrl. In this particular case, though, the instructor seems to be out of sync with the rest of the university culture, as far as the grades go. Also, the prof in question appears to be a first-time prof. I’m not familiar with any university where a large fraction of reasonably well-prepared students actual fail an introductory course, currently. It’s hard to tell whether the prof is misrepresenting the no-curve policy and will actually curve, or whether he does not have any intention of curving (as he claims).</p>
<p>In the past, it did happen that exceptionally well-prepared students actually failed first-year courses with some regularity–at Caltech. However, I am essentially certain that they’ve adopted kinder, gentler grading practices since then.</p>