Really Love Philosophy and History, But Concerned About What My Prospects Will Be

College Majors Humanities Majors
1

Hi everyone! So, I’m a senior in high school who will be attending the University of Chicago next year as a member of the class of 2020, and I’m really excited to be able to go there and engage theoretically with all of the other students. Now that the background is out of the way, I have a concern. So all my life I have been interested in Philosophy and History, as well as other fields (to a lessor extent) such as Law, Political Science, Public Policy, and Anthropology/Archaeology, and I don’t mind Economics, but would prefer not to major/minor in it. I have wanted for a long time to study Philosophy in college (I will almost certainly major in it), and I would ideally like to double major in History, but I would be willing (reluctant but willing) to take on another major in addition to Philosophy if it opened up a lot more doors for me.

My question is two-fold: a) Other than being a lawyer or a college professor (the two professions I see myself ending up with), or a journalist, what other professions do majors in Philosophy and History in particular open up for students, and do some options become available for me because of the prestige of the college I’m attending (don’t worry, I didn’t choose it because of its ranking. It is a really good academic fit, and I genuinely wanted to go there for non-prestige reasons), and b) how hard is it to make it as a top-notch college philosophy and/or history professor (i.e. ~$100,000 per year at a reputable university). That would be a job in which I could pursue my academic passions full time which would be really fulfilling and interesting (and I really care about being able to wake up each day and say I like my job, which I realize very few people can say), but I hear it’s incredibly hard to become tenured and make decent money nowadays, so I was wondering if anyone had any information about that. And I have also heard that adjunct professors make close to nothing, which makes going into a field like college education very scary for me. I have very little interest in becoming a high school teacher (which I know is much easier and generally more stable), and no interest in middle or elementary education.

Also, I would love to hear from current and past students their experiences in majoring in these fields to gain a better perspective.

And if Philosophy and History don’t offer me the opportunities that I’m looking for, which, if any, of the fields above (preferably Law, Political Science, Public Policy, or Anthropology/Archaeology) would be good to major/minor in addition to philosophy or history (i.e. I would be majoring in philosophy/history and another field), and what doors would they open other than the ones I mentioned?

Thanks in advance.

2

Yep, law and academia are likely to be your best prospects. There are also history jobs at museums, archives, with the Park Service, even in-house corporate historians, although they’re not going to be on the high end of the pay scale. These days, starting salary for tenure track assistant professor jobs in those fields is around 60K at mid range universities and colleges. Could be +/-15K depending on the size and prestige of the institution in question.

You could also teach at an independent high school, less $ but also less pressure.

Academics have a lot of freedom but they also work longer hours than you would think.

Ask your professors about professional prospects, once you have established a comfortable relationship with some of them.

The academic job market is very tough. If you decide to go forward, to to the most prestigious grad program available in order to maximize your chances.

3

As @mamaedefamilia correctly points out, the academic job market is tough these days. You need to bear in mind that, given the fact that many universities rely on adjuncts and T.A.s to satisfy their teaching needs more cheaply. It’s not as easy to get jobs in Academia as it used to be (not that it was ever easy!). This is especially true in the humanities, as more and more students select pre-professional majors and STEM fields in the hopes of having a greater return on their investment (monetarily speaking, at least).

I, frankly, abhor this trend in education and fully support university education for the sake of learning in order to have a better educated populace. (I also believe that public education should be free, but that’s a whole other discussion). To my mind, the purpose of college should be to learn and grow, and universities should not be seen as places in which to receive vocational training. Vocational training and apprenticeships should be available for those not wanting to pursue scholarly tracks. Either way, kids starting out in life shouldn’t have to rack up huge amounts of debt to do either. But I digress.

Studying philosophy and history will teach you how to think critically and write persuasively. These are things that will serve you well in life, and the rest you can figure out in grad school. Just try not to accumulate too much debt in the process.

4

I think this is kind of a narrow interpretation of it. Don’t just think of history or philosophy-related jobs - there are a world of careers out there that aren’t specifically related to any one particular major that a history or philosophy major could enter. I know a philosophy major who became the COO of a startup after graduating and a history major who became a Naval officer. And yes, the prestige of your college can lend you some additional opportunities - I saw lots of undergraduate humanities majors at my Ivy graduate school go into prestigious finance or consulting positions because they attended a target school. But there are some related opportunities - I once heard a philosophy major at a conference speak about her position in bioethics at a biotechnology or pharmaceutical company (her job, if I remember correctly, was to address potential bioethical concerns and think through solutions or at least responses in the research).

As mentioned above, making it as a professor in the humanities is nigh impossible these days. I think the estimate is that only 1 in 5 PhD graduates who finish a humanities PhD will get a tenure-track academic position - anywhere. And only half of those who begin PhDs in the humanities finish them. And as mentioned, new tenure-track assistant professors do not make $100,000 per year even at the top universities. Every year, the American Association of University Professors publishes a faculty salary survey (http://data.chronicle.com/faculty-salaries/). Assistant professors at four-year private colleges and universities average a bit over $64,000 a year (and that includes all of the tt professors with 0-6 years of experience) and at four-year publics, it’s a bit over $66,000 a year. Most professors don’t hit six figures until they are full professors, which is generally 12-15 years after getting a job as a professor assuming they get tenure at the same institution they started at (which could be a long time after starting graduate school; the average PhD in the humanities takes 10 years and many humanities PhDs teach as an adjunct or visiting professor for several years before landing a tenure-track position).

(There are a handful of colleges where the salary for assistant professors approaches six figures on that list, but don’t be misled - the averages are skewed upwards by the medical and professional professors at those places, who get paid a lot more. Humanities salaries actually skew far lower than the average, so even at places like MIT and Columbia I’m betting first-year humanities assistant professors probably make around $75K at best.)

Also - as someone who has a PhD and pursued the academic profession for a while - I will say that academic research may be a lot different than you expect. You think at the outset that you can pursue your academic passions full-time, but that’s not really what being a professor is about…at all. Even if you land at a research university with a 2/2 teaching load, you still have to teach, mentor students, write grants (maybe less so for a humanities professor, but still), and wrangle with all kinds of administrative duties (professors fill out way more paperwork than I was prepared for). and even then, the way in which academics pursue their passions may not be the way you imagine. I found myself really irritated and disillusioned with the way academics do research - it felt much more like an exhausting grind than following my passions.

I left for a research position in industry and I do wake up every day and really like my job. Although liking your job doesn’t mean that you want to go every day or that you love every aspect of it. Just most of them.

Anyway. There’s a whole universe of jobs out there. You’re only in high school, so right now being a professor or lawyer may be the only things you can imagine yourself doing, but that may simply be lack of information about the jobs that are out there. I never even imagined my current career was even a job when I was in college - and most people have never heard of it - but it’s wonderful, and I’m well-suited for it. Remain open-minded in your pursuit!

5

Thanks to all of you! I guess I just have to let life come at me instead of constantly planning for the future. I’m going to a great school, and I need to trust that regardless of what I major in, I’ll have options that are closely related, so I might as well just study what I want to study.

6

https://www.payscale.com/gigzig.aspx#/US///Adjunct+Professor lists $41,978/year for “adjunct professor”. I’m retired now, but in my highest paying years (as a full-time chemist): 1) I never received that much per year, and 2) I felt that what I was paid was an ample amount of money, providing everything I needed and then some.

http://www.payscale.com/research/US/Degree=Bachelor_of_Arts_%28BA%29%2c_Philosophy/Salary shows some actual job titles that were acquired by people with a BA in philosophy. If you put “/contact_center.php3?searchpid=32” after Students Review dot com, you’ll see some more (and a tremendous range in pay levels).

7

I believe UChicago has a “business” concentration, which isn’t a major but lets you take classes in business. If you’re interested in that, law, business, and academia are all good options. Good luck!

8

As Julliet mentioned above, many humanities and social science majors go into industry. I know a girl who is graduating from uchicago as a sociology major this year who just got an offer she accepted at Accenture, a leading consulting firm. My older son’s former girlfriend is also graduating from uchicago this year as a Russian and political science major. She had an internship at Morgan Stanley last summer.

Sheryl Sandburg, the COO of Facebook, lost her husband Dave Goldberg last year. He graduated from Harvard as a history and government major and when he died, he was CEO of surveymonkey, a start-up that became very successful under his stewardship. Despite no MBA, he had an interesting business career. See here: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dave_Goldberg

I think it’s important to major in whatever subjects most interest you, and then explore jobs through internships and even develop great job skills through college extracurriculars. For instance, my younger son is an English major who writes for his college literary magazine, but he’s also president of his college television station and has been a producer of their student-created sitcoms and coverage of sports. He’s also involved in a student-run advertising agency that has not only his college as a client but national corporations and local businesses. He’s still not sure if he’d like to pursue a career in advertising or marketing, or television media, or even media law, but he’s getting some experience to figure it all out. Meanwhile, he’s reading Chaucer, Walt Whitman, Juno Diaz et al to his delight. And writing good analytical papers and creative writing, which he loves to do.

There are multiple paths to good careers.

9

I have another question. How much will the school I will be attending (the University of Chicago) have an impact on graduate admissions? In other words, would they overlook someone from UChicago having a 3.0-3.3 GPA for someone at a less prestigious school having a 3.7 GPA? I obviously am going to give it my best, but I know that achieving a GPA that many elite graduate schools look for is going to be incredibly challenging at UChicago, so how much do they care about the undergraduate institution you attend?

10

It’s very likely going to depend on how much you do as an undergrad in those fields, especially in terms of research. Chicago has a fantastic reputation for these subjects, so if you do well, it’s very likely you could land in a top graduate program. You haven’t even started college yet, don’t count out your chances!

11

What you do in undergrad is much more important than where you go. But Chicago is an excellent university with great offerings in a variety of fields. The name recognition can help, especially if you do good work and get to know some prominent scholars in your field who can recommend you.

Also, don’t assume that you would get a 3.0-3.3 at Chicago but like a 3.5-3.7 at another less prestigious school. That’s not necessarily how it works. Plus there are a lot of other experiences that matter to admissions.

12

@juillet Really? I thought places cared first and foremost about your GPA and they value that over where you went for undergrad because they want to keep their numbers up.

13

It’s not that your GPA doesn’t matter, it’s that it’s not the only thing that matters. If you want to go to a PhD program in history or philosophy, here are all of the things they consider:

-Your GPA, of course (but in many different ways - major GPA, last 60 units, cumulative)
-The rigor of your undergraduate program, especially in your major (did you take upper-level and graduate classes?)
-Your personal statement
-The quality of your writing sample
-How well you fit in with the department, both in scholarship (do your interests align with the professors’ in the department) and in demeanor/personality)
-Your GRE scores
-Letters of recommendation from professors who can comment about your potential for success as a student at a scholar

Since PhD programs don’t publish their average GPA publicly - and they’re not ranked based on that information - there’s usually no incentive for them to keep their GPAs as high as possible. So while they do look for high GPAs, they’re not looking only for that.

14

@juillet What about for law school?

15

The academic job market in history was one of the first to collapse, and it has never recovered. English literature doesn’t even have it as bad. Seriously, don’t get a into history with the desire to become a professor—it is almost certain to end in tears.

Philosophy isn’t as bad, but it’s close.

However, the non-academic job market for historians and philosophers is quite good, as long as you don’t expect to be working in careers with “historian” or “philosopher” in their job titles. A degree in either of those fields would demonstrate that you are able to think logically and write clearly, which are traits any number of employers drool over.

16

@jarrett211 Law school is different - there, your GPA and LSAT scores are king. The higher your GPA and LSAT scores, the higher your chances of getting admitted. It’s to the point at which there’s a “Law School Probability Calculator” on the Internet (although I have no idea how accurate it is*).

Very tip-top law schools can afford to be choosy - they get more applicants with excellent LSATs and GPAs than they can admit, so they also take into account other factors like extracurriculars and related jobs. For example, at Yale law, the median GPA is a 3.93 and the median LSAT score is a 173. However, only 22% of Yale Law students went to law school directly after undergrad - most have on average 2 years of post-college experience, and nearly 40% have spent 3 or more years doing something else between undergrad and law school. At other law schools that are lower-ranked/less prestigious, though, students are more likely to come straight from undergrad (although many still do take time off - the average age for 1Ls at Boston College, ranked in the 30s, is 24 years old).

*Technically, it’s not really a probability calculator. It uses 143,000 data points from previously admitted students to law schools. So really what it’s doing is spitting out an aggregated average proportion of how many students with a particular LSAT score and GPA were admitted to each of the law schools on the list.

17

@juillet I know this is getting ahead of myself a little bit, but what are the prospects of someone who gets a really good LSAT score (let’s say 165+), but a GPA of 3.3-3.5 at a prestigious university? Can that get them into a Top 14 Law School, or at the very least into a Law School such as Boston College (like you mentioned)?

18

It depends but generally speaking, pretty low. It also depends on where you are in that range - on the low end (165-170ish LSAT, 3.3 GPA) your chances are not good at a top 14 law school but you may have a shot in the 15-30 range. At the mid-level (let’s say like 170-175ish LSAT and around a 3.4 GPA) you have good odds at the 15-30 range and at least a shot in the dark at top 14, although it’s still unlikely. If you have a 176+ LSAT and a 3.5ish GPA, then your chances at the 15-30 schools are very good and you have decent to good prospects at the top 14 (except for Yale and Stanford, who are insane).

That said, you can’t really predict ahead of time what your GPA is going to look like, so I wouldn’t worry too much yet!

19

@jarrett211 Graduate programs will know the significance and rigor of a U of Chicago degree and know that you had to work hard to get those As. Really, you will come out of there with the analytical skills and breadth of knowledge to set you up for just about anything! Enjoy - it will be an amazing ride.

20

@juillet and @mamaedefamilia Thank you both for your help! This is my biggest fear about Chicago (how the grades are often so tough on students that it just kills them for graduate school), and I just want to make sure they know how hard it is to achieve there. I’m really excited to be able go, and I’m going to do my best to just live and learn in the moment.