<p>When I got a massive merit scholarship to one of my favorite schools in March, I was ectastic because it woould mean I could affod to pursue a four year biology degree at little or no cost to my family and then go into a pharmacy school. Pre-parm is usually a two year program, but this scholarship gave me the freedom to go all four years under the justification that doing otherwise would be "wasting" money. </p>
<p>Then, I go orientation and learn my scholarship is good for four years--even if those last two are in professal school. This will save me a ton of money if I go this route. The thing is, I want the four year degree. In addition to giving me a strong backgrouund, the degree will also allow me time to pursue other interests--namely Japanese--on the side. The degree is strctured in such a way that it does not appear possible to complete it in 3 years.</p>
<p>And then comes the money situation... My parents are moving to an area where housing costs are much higher and are having to take out a motage and/or spend some of the money they have saved to make the "sell" price and the "buy" price match up. I'm happy for them--really; my Dad's estastic to be back in "his" area--but this means they will have less (and I'm expecting less) for them to contribute to my pharm. school education. That makes it more advantagneous then ever for me to suck it up and take the two year pre-pharm route... it's just I really looking forward to taking Japanese in college and having a credit or two to takke other "fun" classes.</p>
<p>What should I do?</p>
<p>(Numbers: undergrads about $4k per year, pharm school will be about $26k per year, parents might pay half of pharmacy school costs [of course, it all depends, but that seems reasonable for the current situation]. If the scholarship goes to the two years of pharm d school, the first two years will be around 8 k [probably covered by parents], the last two at around $24k with about half parential support under the current scenario.)</p>
<p>Wolf - Congratulations on your hard work and good fortune. You're WAY ahead of most of us (I did four years in the service to pay for my UG degree). So relax a bit and ponder your options. In a couple of weeks talk those options over with your parents (who like most supportive parents will ask "Well what do YOU want to do?").</p>
<p>Well, I've tried talking to them and talking to myself, and I've gotten nowhere. The thing is, my family isn't really big on spending money (I'm the worst of all!). My Dad says I can do what I want, but you can see his muscles tighten when I talk about doing a four year degree. I'm the type of person who vetted schools FIRST on cost, so it would be really hard for me just to spend all that money so I can have more academic freedom, but that is what I WANT to do. The Japanese department was part of reason I chose this school (I came from a very strong program and will enter at the 300 level), so I don't want that to go to waste. I really do want to study Bio/Pharm, but I don't want to solely study bio/chem and burn myself out or overburden myself by cramming everything into two years. The problem is that I don't know if doing what I want is worth an extra ~$58k (with about a 26k difference in debt to me).</p>
<p>Wolfpiper, once you have a 4 year degree, most colleges will view you as financially independent from your parents -- so financial aid for pharmacy school will be based on a lower EFC. Also, professional school is worth borrowing for, more so than undergrad, because it puts you directly in line for employment. So much less to worry about as far as taking on debt.</p>
<p>A four year degree with a minor in Japanese is much more valuable over the long run. The language facility is especially useful -- it might open up employment opportunities in a community with a lot of Japanese immigrants, for example. But the more important thing is that if you decide at some point to change careers or pursue another interest, the 4 year degree is worth more.</p>
<p>I think that $26k of debt for boh 4 year degree and pharm degree is doable. Once you get your degree, you should be able to pay down the debt without too much difficulty, and as calmom said, knowing Japanese would expand your options. Do you have to choose right now? Can you make a decision after you are in college? Many students change their minds after the first or even second or third year...</p>
<p>That would be 26k MORE debt (about 52k total if parents contribute half, up over a 100k if they can't or don't) as opposed to max of around 48k if they don't contribute (24-26k estimated with half) if I go the six year route.</p>
<p>I more or less have to decide now, as classes fill up soon. If I go the two year route, I start General Chem. now and in doing so, don't take Japanese (scheduling). I could start Gen. Chem in spring and then try to complete it over the summer, but if they don't offer Gen. Chem 2 in the summer and/or it conflicts with the program's required work hours, I'm shut out of the six year route. If I do the degree route, I can take Japanese now and start Gen. Chem in the spring, finishing it up in summer would be preferable but not absolutely necessary in the event of them not offering it, and it would be easier to amass more experience hours in 3.5 years as opposed to 1.5 years.</p>
<p>Also, I won't be going for a minor in Japanese. I already place out pof required language courses and have no real interest in studying Japanese literature in English translation, so I'm just planning to exhaust the language courses and maybe a cultuire one or two I figure I can simply put down "Japanese proficiencey" and have it be true.</p>
<p>Looking at this post, it's pretty obvious I want to do the degree route; it's just that those are some really big numbers up there, and I'm warry of burdening myself with debt for my own comfort.</p>
<p>Wolfpiper, my rule of thumb is that total debt should not be more than anticipated first year salary. The average starting salary for a pharmacist is $59K -- and pay is higher if you start working for a retail chain, up to around $75K. Thus if you are looking at $58K in debt, I think it is reasonable. You will be able to make payments out of your starting salary without too much difficulty. </p>
<p>Do what you want. In the long run you will be happier -- especially if anywhere down the line you want to continue your education in a field other than pharmacy. </p>
<p>Also, there are some loan foregiveness programs available in health care professions, including pharmacy, if you are willing to work in certain rural areas.</p>
<p>I agree with the "breathe" and "do what you want".
I forgot, are you guarranteed a spot in pharmacy school if you go either route? or do you still have to apply? Competition is tough and I don't think you can just assume admission to pharmacy school either route. I recommend you begin the chemistry as soon as possible, it is very important in pharmacy school. I am a better pharmacist/person with the experiences and knowledge obtained while earning my BA. I don't have any what if regrets and I don't feel stuck in a job because of the money. If the 58K debt is for pharmacy school, you can moonlight early in your career and pay it off quickly.</p>
<p>wolfpiper, is there any way you can fit in chem AND Japanese? Are there other classes that could be taken later? Or could you start Japanese in the spring? Skipping it for one semester wouldn't give you time to forget too much, especially if you did an occasional review on your own. Or perhaps there is some individualized study in Japanese you could do first semester? Or a Japanese club? That would give you a little longer to decide.</p>
<p>Personally, I would take the Japanese and go for the four year degree, but try to find ways to bring cost down, like working as an RA, finding good summer jobs, or looking for teaching assistanships for pharmacy school. (Do they have those for pharm? I don't know much about it.) But then, I have a son working in Japan right now and totally loving it, so I might be a bit prejudiced in that direction.</p>
<p>Wolf, if I had a nickel for every grownup I've met who started college with plan A and ended up with plan B, C or G I'd be a millionaire.</p>
<p>Right now you want to be a pharmacist. Have you ever taken linguistics? Do you know what urban planners do? Have you read about bio-informatics (a neat field for someone with an interest in pharmacy) and do you know about what people do at the CDC or other public health roles? Have you ever shadowed someone who develops protocols for chemotherapy and analyzes how outcomes may vary by race or gender?</p>
<p>All I'm saying is that at age 18 you may know that you want to be a pharmacist.... but that at age 30 you may wish you'd kept some options open. You will never regret having a BS.... and will open doors to many other things... including the pharmacy program.</p>
<p>I admire and respect the way you are considerate of your parents financial situation.... but start college and let your parents work with you to make it happen. </p>
<p>Wolf-people here are not hesitating to place you and your family is some serious debt but it isn't their money! You should really have a heart-to heat conversation with your family first. Since an important issue seems to be the desire to pursue your japanese studies consider auditing some courses. Since you will not have to take exams or prepare written assignments, I suspect you can sandwich these into a 4 year pharm schedule.</p>
<p>You could also consider some post grad opportunites to advance your Japanese language capabilities such as work-study abroad, reguilarly vacationing in Japan, taking japanese language classes as a part-time student if you live near a university, fostering a regular correspondent with Japanese pen pals, or participating in a Japanese cultural organization. Remember, schools and universities have never been the sole source for learning and an educated person embarks on a lifetime of learning which never ceases. You have literally decades of time ahead of you to perfect and pursue your love of the Japanese language.</p>
<p>How many years in Japan can $58k buy? How many summers in intensive immersion programs? How many trips back and forth? </p>
<p>If you are assuming you have the $58k for educational use, would the extra two years studying Japanese in Montana be the best use of it? (I mean that as a real question, not as a rhetorical one.) If you don't have the $58k, it's a non-issue, but your assumption seems to be that, one way or another, you do.</p>
<p>There's an awful lot of education out there that doesn't have anything necessarily to do with college. If language fluency is the goal, there are other, likely better ways of getting there - but you have to spend some money for them.</p>
<p>You guys have given me a lot to think about!</p>
<p>Mini,
I don't "assume" I (or my parents) have 58k! The only money I would "assume" having is the money I have in my savings account right now. However, my parents have agreed that, if it is financially possible at the time, they will HELP pay for some of my professional school as I result of me choosing a cheaper undergrad college. (The cheapest was the one that would have paid for my pre-pharm and pharmacy tuition and guranteeded me a spot in pharm.school. It was hard to turn it down, but I ultimately thought I "fit" more at this school. We'll see. The other options ranged from 7k to 40k per year.) If I knew I had 58k, there would be no dilemna. The fact that I don't is what causes the conflict.</p>
<p>My parents really hate discussing money with me (They won't give me a straight answer about how much they could afford until after I finished applying), so I really can't talk to them.</p>
<p>My take on Japanese is a bit odd:
I don't plan/want to go Japan. It's a combination of many factors (long plan ride, the general inaccessibility of the country, money, time, etc, etc.), but going to nihon isn't exactly on the top of my list. Don't get my wrong, I've met great Japanese people (exchange students and teachers) and I love the language acidemically and socially, but I can't see myself going there. I like the classroom experience with Japanese, everything from trannslation to poetry intrepretation to everday conversasion, and that's what I want. Not just an opprotunity to speak but an opprotunity to really learn. I'm honestly not expecting Japanese to serve any partical purpose in my life, really, and judging from what I've seen, it probably won't.</p>
<p>Scheduling:
It is impossible for me to take Japanese and Chem or even audit Japanese because our computer system won't let you register with a schedule conflict, and you need to register to audit. I can't take Japanese next semester because the courses run on a year system when 302 is only offered in the spring and is a continuation of 301. I (and my current teacher) feel I would be right for the 301 level.</p>
<p>Can you contact the Japanese language teacher and see what could be done to accommodate your interest? Sometimes, at such a high level, there may be just a handful of students taking the class and the instructor may be willing to redo the schedule. Or the instructor may be willing to work one on one with you. </p>
<p>As for traveling to Japan: Being immersed in the Japanese language is not the only reason for going. It is experiencing life there, and getting a firsthand feel for the culture. Distances, or the consequences of population density or geography need to be experienced. Your appreciation of Japanese literature and culture will be enhanced. But that's for a slightly different thread.</p>
<p>Is there a "tweener" option? i.e. 3 years and then Pharm school? $28k for a professional degree would be a real bargain, you wouldn't feel so burdened, and you could breathe a little in Japanese.</p>
<p>Please take into account that you may feel differently about college once you are there a couple years. I have encountered many kids including me (a parent) who was darn anxious to get out of college and start being a worker in the real world by the 4th college year.No everyone is cut out to be a professional student.
Also, if you take the more condensed and difficult route please take inot consideration you may have a tough time with a course or two. Sometimes a D can result in having to repeat the course and thus, delay graduation.</p>
<p>I've pretty much decided to do the four year route. The deciding factor was that under that plan I can complete the pre-reqs required by my state pharm. school as well as UM's. I want to be able to aply to this school for financial reasons, and I would also complete the requirements for any number of pharmacy schools, givening me more potential options. Plus, I think my Japanese teacher would be heartbroken if I didn't take Japanese! :cool:</p>