<p>A lot of people have told me that my undergrad doesn't matter when applying to a Med school, but I'm just not convinced.</p>
<p>If a student from a state college with a 4.0 and excellent portfolio applied to a school, then another student from yale with a 3.6 and less impressive portfolio; would the Med school have any preference for the Yale student (purely because of the name in this situation)?</p>
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<p>No. A school’s name carries very little weight when it comes to medical school admissions. It’s really all about the student and his/her accomplishments.</p>
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No. However, if both students are with 4.0, the latter could have a little bit of break on his/her ECs. (BTW, for most years, not a single student is graduated from Yale with a 4.0. Plenty of 3.9+ though. Another phenomenon at Yale is that many competitive students try to earn as many As (absolute number, not the percentage of As) as they can, because the criterion of a specific academic honor is solely based on the numbers of As earned at the home institute. So quite a few students earn both BS and MS in 4 years. In this sense, it is somewhat like in high school where competitive students load up as many AP 5’s as they can.)</p>
<p>An analogy is that if you are a top ranked student from a very top high school (Thomas Jefferson?), your rank-1 or rank-2 status from such a school could give you an edge. But if your percentile from such a high school is 40 to 50%, the only thing you demonstrate is your weakness in such an environment.</p>
<p>OP,
If you are not convinced, then go to the one that you perceive will make a difference in Med. School admission. Our advice has very little to do with your goals, we all have different perceptions and choose UGs based on personal criteria. Respect yours first, it is your life, others will take care of themselves.</p>
<p>Agree with Miami 100%. </p>
<p>And I’ll add this: think of all the things that go into med school admissions–GPA, MCAT, research, volunteering, clinical experience, leadership, employment, LORs, essays, interviews. No one would doubt that these are among the 10 most important things to getting into med school. Now, where do you propose to place “prestige of school”? What are you worried it is more important than, in terms of admissions? I personally would be shocked if it were more important than any of those ten things, but agree that it must be taken into account somehow. It seems like many people here agree that it probably matters less than those who go to elite schools want, but more than those who go to no-name schools think. Would it be the deciding factor between two identical applicants? I doubt it. But I also doubt you’d find 2 identical applicants, so I bet the decision would be made based on other factors but would be attributed to the name factor.</p>
<p>If a student can go to a state school, get a 4.0, build an impressive portfolio including meaningful work in most of those aforementioned categories, and apply to a smart mix of schools, then I believe s/he will be accepted somewhere. Similarly, if a student can go to Yale, get a “4.0” (or 3.9 or whatever), build an impressive portfolio including meaningful work in most of those aforementioned categories, and apply to a smart mix of schools, then I believe s/he will be accepted somewhere.</p>
<p>I think your bottom line is, “Can I go to a state school and still go to med school?” and the answer to that is a resounding YES.</p>
<p>So without a doubt a state school is acceptable? Its a last resort safety but I’m hesitant to believe that ill get into anywhere I really would love and thrive in, despite my unique history.</p>
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<p>Without a doubt your state U (OSU, UO) is acceptable. Every year thousands of students who graduate from state universities make it into med school. They even are accepted into Top 10 med schools. Absolutely nothing unique about that.</p>
<p>As for finding a med school you’ll “thrive” at–it’s way too early and you know way too little about medical school cultures to even start worrying about that.</p>
<p>Sorry for not clarifying, the “thriving” part was directed towards a UG, not the-med school. I just feel like I’d really thrive at somewhere like Duke or UPenn (my absolute #1 choice), however I have some doubts about the chances of even being accepted. I have no doubt in my mind that whatever med school I try to get into will be more than sufficient and resourceful. Other than that, I think my worries have been sated for now. Thanks for the help everyone!</p>
<p>“So without a doubt a state school is acceptable?”
-not at all for somebody with 3.5 who applied to only Ivy’s. Follow Kristin’s 10 things to keep in mind. The biggy, even for 4.0’s is to have a reasonable Med. School list, aim at 50% acceptance, it is very reasonable even for the very top Phi Beta Kappa’s 4.0’s with high MCAT scores.</p>
<p>Anyway, look for reassurances within yourself, you will get into trouble listenning to others (and then blame them). Make decisions and bear concequences and learn what works and waht does not for YOU, not somebody else.</p>
<p>If you can get into a top school for undergrad, I’m sure you will work hard enough to put together a strong app from any school. Since you mentioned upenn, I turned down upenn for my no name state school, and I have no regrets about it.</p>
<p>The thing is, there are top students at every school. The top students at your state school can certainly go toe-to-toe with top students from elite private schools; if you consider med students to be representative of top students, I guarantee you the kids in my class who went to Brown and Yale and Duke are by no means noticeably different than the kids who went to state flagships, LACs, and other types of schools.</p>
<p>Should you choose a state school, you will probably have to work a little harder to find a brilliant group of friends who are as dedicated as you are about achieving their goals of professional school than you would at an elite school. They are DEFINITELY out there though! State schools can also be a great option for kids who don’t want to break the bank with UG (which is a smart idea, considering med school is so expensive and doesn’t appear to be getting any cheaper). </p>
<p>Basically, if you’re going to Yale or Duke or Penn with the idea that it’ll be the golden ticket to med school, you’re misinformed, and hopefully this post has demonstrated that. If you’re going to Yale or Duke or Penn because you are convinced they uniquely have the best environment for you and money’s no object (or you got a great scholarship, whatever), then I think that’s a great idea.</p>
<p>(If you’re wondering: I went to a great HS and went kicking and screaming to my state’s flagship (absolutely a safety), mostly for financial reasons (3 siblings!); I graduated magna cum laude and Phi Beta Kappa with a BS in biology in 2011; I’m currently a second year med student at a state school; my 3 best friends from undergrad are in med school, getting a PhD in chemistry, and applying for developmental bio PhD programs; my best med school buddies are from my state flagship, other state schools, small LACs, elite programs, top 25s; I interviewed at 3 top 25 med schools “back in the day;” I was accepted a few weeks following my interview; my MCAT was far from spectacular at 30)</p>
<p>If I could go back to senior year of high school, without a doubt I would choose exactly the same path I ended up on. It has been a fantastic journey!</p>
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Fully agree.
Also agree.
Very good reason. We told DS we could not afford to send him to a pricy college if he has a sibling.(This was before the “middle class initiative” of these top private schools.)</p>
<p>Many (or even most) of top 10 students in his high school graduating class (which is a competitive public high school) who had gone to the flagship state university had no problem in getting into a med school or top graduate schools if they chose that route.</p>
<p>We also saw some “bottom half” students from his top college was really struggling to get into a med school, faring worse than high GPA, high MCAT students from a state uniuversity. So it is each individual’s achievement which makes or breaks it. No matter where you go, you need to be a shining star academically there.</p>
<p>During DS’s 2nd look at a top public med school in his state, most of the admitted students who were in that event were from the top two state universities. On the other hand, in top research private med schools, top college graduates have a higher representation (e.g., (arguably) “top two” private colleges alone consists of more than 20 percents of the incoming class.) — This may not the case in top med schools in either California or midwest though (not very sure here as DS had little experience with med schools in these two regions.)</p>
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<p>Believe what this poster has said. </p>
<p>It is said that Ivy League medical schools are attracted to Ivy League undergrads but this is the main advantage of going to a school like Penn. The problem is that for other med schools the name of the university has little bearing on your chances of acceptance. It does not matter if, because of the more intense competition, you have to “work harder” to obtain a “good” GPA. That said there is no doubt that the rigorous courses you would take at a top 20 university will prepare you better than a school than, say, USciences in Philadelphia. (Trust me on this… there is a HUGE difference in volume of material.)</p>
<p>The school you pick for undergrad should be based on your personal fit. As a freshman at a school that I had to apply ED to because of “prestige”, pick where you’d be happy. Not just where the name is. Don’t just think that Penn is the instant ticket to Perelman and that’s why you should go.</p>
<p>A bit of comment in regard to “brilliant” group of friends at state public. Really do not need to work that hard to find them. Honors colleges admit primarily kids that would be considered for Ivy’s acceptance any way. D’s Honors aadmitted top 2% with ACT=31/32+. I imagine that any pre-med who is Ivy caliber would be accepted into Honors at state. So, he/she would be automatically surrounded by student of the same caliber. D’s Honors included priamrily valedictorians from many private and some public HS’s (only 200 spots). She acrtually had to work a bit harder to find “other” types, not so “intense” and so much into sciemce as she is always looking to be surrounded by variety of people. That was one of the reasons for her participation in Sorority (that had only 2 pre-meds, my D. and her friend) and having Music Minor.</p>
<p>I have 2 children: one who attended the state U, the other attended a top 30 research U. I did not see substantial differences in the quality of their educational experiences. (With the exception of the kiddo who went to state U having to wait 3 semesters to get into required Ochem labs. And the state U kiddo having a greater breadth of major and non-major elective classes to choose from.) Both kiddos had the opportunity to do meaningful research, do clinical volunteering, have excellent (and not so excellent) teaching, were able to form close working relationships with professors, had the opportunity to participate in summer research programs. I don’t even see a substantial difference in the peer groups each had. (Both have friends who are in various competitive grad programs in chemistry, physics, biology, architecture and who are enrolled in professional school–med, clinical psych. The main difference in their peer groups is the kiddo who went to the research school friends tend be from much wealthier families.)</p>
<p>I’m not saying that their experiences were identical. (Different kids–different interests/pathways.) But from an outcome standpoint, really almost no difference.</p>
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There is no doubt about this. Such a national research school usually recruits a higher percentage of students from competitive, pricy prep schools as compared to that of public college.</p>
<p>One of DS’s suitemate can afford to take a weekend vacation trip to any place on earth whenever he feels like no reason is needed (sometimes a couple of times a semester). He always flied first-class for vacation! At one time, when he threw a party, the location ws in the heart of NYC, and private limo services to invitees were included, free of charge. A girl in the next suit also liked to throw a party every month or two. It was also the case that she covered all the expenses. She herself owned an apartment in NYC which many may not afford in their whole life.</p>
<p>In about 1 or 2 years, those who are from the wealthy background will eventually lead a life that is different from the life of those from a more modest back ground. Their growing-up experiences are just so different.</p>
<p>If this bothers you, you should take this into the consideration when choosing the school. I think any top private college is like this.</p>
<p>Also, the life out of premed-focused life is also important for your sanity sake. They tend to be the most neurotic bunch. I believe DS tends to avoid those super type-A ones (which is not an easy task at his school) as much as he could during his UG. Now, he is surrounded by all of these types for the next few years.</p>
<p>"Also, the life out of premed-focused life is also important for your sanity sake. They tend to be the most neurotic bunch. "
-Yes, make sure to have a variety of friends. My D. really appreciates talking to people outside of medicine. She is MS2. Even at Med. School, she is not close to the most “intense” bunch, she likes grounded and well rounded people and tries very hard NOT to be pushy herself, which includes letting others speak, letting others lead even if it requires to limit / restrict herself.</p>
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I think this is a quite good attitude.</p>
<p>Some high school students think they must go to a “the very best premed power house” or they may put themselves into a disadvantaged position in this career path. This is far from the truth. On the other hand, the vibe of each school could be somewhat different. How easy you can find a group to belong to may be more important than how good their “premed program” (which is just a set of classes) is.</p>
<p>DS also had lots of acitivities besides his premed ones. When he was filling out his med school application, he once told us that it was so easy to fill out the application just because he had had these activities. Also, when he was in a freshmen year, he told us there were at least two (out of six) suitemates who are more intense in academic than him. (There are high concentration of intense students in the premed circle at his school – maybe at any school.) During the year he took orgo, he said he would never be like another student who almost never stopping studying orgo while she was awake and “not distracted” by other classses. In the end, he is doing just fine even though he is never the most intense one. Actually, he is the one from his freshman suite who earned most As and was very likely graduated with the highest GPA. Everybody is different, but for him, he seems to be peak with his learning with some down time.</p>
<p>Regarding “intense students”, DS told us in one of his upper-division classes which are often taken by the premed students (because of its extreme relevancy to medicine), even a TA session is extremely intense, for both the TA (an MD/PhD student) and the students. The pressure came from the fact that almost all students came to the sesssion very well prepared and if you had not prepared it before the session, you would definitely be “left behind”. You can rarely find a non-intense students when the premed life gets to this later stage.</p>
<p>DS fortunately had a very relaxed roommate who had nothing to do with a premed career at that time. It balanced his life somewhat.</p>