<p>I really like kmcmom’s advice. It’s fair and sounds accurate to me.</p>
<p>It would be interesting to know the percent of people who work in audio engineering and producton who have college degrees and the percentage of those who’s degrees are closely related to what they do. It’s probably not nearly as high as one would expect.</p>
<p>I think that the biggest advantage of having a college degree in a field like audio engineering or production is upward mobility. Ya, one might could get a job as an intern with just a good ear and no college, but college often helps with promotions particularly if all other factors between to candidates are equal.</p>
<p>All these posts are very helpful, thank you everybody.
My daughter is interested in this audio recording field but was hoping to stay in the northeast area. Some of the schools in this area that seem to have this program are University of Hartford, Emerson, SUNY Purchase, Umass Lowell, and Ithaca.
Does anyone have any opinions or info on the program at these schools?</p>
<p>pjgorm, my son took a music production seminar at Berklee a couple summers ago (he didn’t get into Berklee as a full-time student but he would have declined due to cost). During the program someone asked other schools were good for music engineering and production. The seminar teacher said Belmont and UMass Lowell. My son is now a freshman at UMass Lowell. Other than having roommates who he doesn’t mesh with, he seems to like what he has done so far. He doesn’t get into the sound classes until next year. But when he visited, he liked the recording equipment and facilities (he knows his gear). One other thing is that he chose this program over a music business program (St. Rose) was because of the heavy emphasis on technology. It didn’t hurt that a couple UMass Lowell grads had recently won Grammys.</p>
<p>In addition, we are Mass residents, so from a cost standpoint, it made sense. Of course, Lowell will never be mistaken for Paris, France. </p>
<p>Also, he loved the Ithaca campus, but didn’t feel the program would go in the direction he wanted.</p>
<p>Thanks, geo. My daughter was also considering the summer seminar at Berklee. What did your son think of it? I thought it would be a good way for my daughter to see what she was getting into.
Also, we were very interested in Lowell at first as we are also Mass residents but we have been getting less than favorable opinions about the campus. We haven’t visited yet.
Do many students stick around on the weekends?</p>
<p>I think that if you want to be an audio engineer that wants to go to work at Dolby Labs or a similar employer designing gear or applications then a program like Peabody is the place. However, if your goal is to end up recording, mixing or producing pop music or doing audio post then you are better off going to a program like an SAE or IAR for a year. These degrees if completed are just as meaningful as if you went to study with Bob Power at Clive Davis.</p>
<p>Keep in mind a couple of things, The Chris Lord Alge and Bob Clearmountains did not go to audio engineering school. The guy who first pushed all the buttons in on an 1176 prob didn’t either! Also, the music business has changed so radically with so many studios closing that traditional engineering jobs are rare and the entire economic structure has been changed. For years, we also had an old saw in the business that if you were a Berekely Grad you were bound to be horrible because anyone with talent never graduated.</p>
<p>More important than what school you go to is how you perform. Any of these places from an SAE to Berkley to Peabody will get you in the doors for a free interning gig. What makes the difference is how well you fit in, adapt, and can take initiative without crossing a very blurry line. That’s what will get you hired.</p>
<p>I offer this advice up as real world and cautionary. Spending money on a liberal arts degree at a college may not lead to a job but it does develop you as a person. Not sure that a 4 year program in audio engineering does the same thing.</p>
<p>Creative taste or ears is also something that you can’t teach. You either get it or you don’t.</p>
While this is indeed true, it is something that can also be said of most musicians/singers/composers as well. A really good music technology and engineering program, however, is every bit as much a developmental opportunity for those already gifted as a performance program is for the musician. Most who pusue this avenue are
musicians in their own right to begin with. However, the thing to look for in a program’s nuance is whether the curriculum is strictly technical, or broader in scope. Technology in music and everything else will change before you graduate, and will require ongoing training and the capability to change and train quickly. what you want to learn is the underpinning foundations, critical thinking, practices and speed/agility that will equip you for the viscitudes of the industry.</p>
<p>pjgorm, my son enjoyed the Berklee program. His only complaint was that it wasn’t long enough.</p>
<p>My son guesses that 50% or more head home for the weekend. </p>
<p>The campus is spread out, split into three locations: North which was the old Lowell Tech, South which was the old Lowell State. They are about a mile apart. The East campus (across the river from North Campus) where they have freshman housing, Fox Hall. They are upgrading, so there are floors which are nice and probably more not so nice. The Rec Center is beautiful. There are quite a few old building but since Marty Meehan became the president of the university, they are working to upgrade. I won’t say much more. You will see. </p>
<p>The long and short is my son is there because the SRT program is strong.</p>
<p>You guys need to listen to Sidecut, who in my experience knows what’s going on. I’ve had a parallel career as an audio engineer and musician ( got my AFM card the same week I went on the road as a monitor mixer, right out of high school ) and now am getting ready to send my D for a BM in viola and we are up at the serious school/ money level, so I’m getting a quick education in all of the proper school stuff. </p>
<p>There is an old truth in the both the audio and the music end of the business and that is that institutions keep their doors open because of the people that shouldn’t be there in the first place. That said those programs that offer serious tech design and math and score reading etc sound like great educations necessary for the really difficult engineering jobs like sports TV and movie production., and I am glad to see them offered. But I’ve worked with some very big time engineers and most of them have other backgrounds like English Lit or Urban History, not audio engineering. So I might suggest either a full on math/design/technical education or a liberal arts and let the tech come as you learn it education. The in between thing sounds expensive and futile.</p>
<p>My son considered all of this when he was looking at schools (He will attend Loyola Marymount U - Recording Arts program located within their film school). The trade-off (and it is a BIG one) for him was to go to this program that is definitely a technical program vs. a compositional one. He is a working DJ/composer now, but it also concerned with getting a job in recording technology when he graduates. He feels this program is the best of both worlds–a four-year college experience (which he wants), access to clubs and a music “scene” in a very important city, a pretty good record with placement in internships during the college years, and he’ll compose on the side. </p>
<p>We went through this 3 years ago with our jazz drummer–do you choose a standalone conservatory with very little liberal arts requirements, or find something with more “college” environment and scene. No wrong answers–like everything, it depends on the kid/parents/finances. I guess we should start a new thread, ala the “Dad’s”: So you want to be a Music TECHNOLOGY major?"</p>
<p>All input here has been invaluable, for many years, in helping kids sort out opportunities. Again, thanks.</p>
<p>SJTH, starting that thread would be a great way to pay back the board for the help you found to be invaluable. As a musician and a technologist, I would find it fascinating reading.</p>
<p>jb1966, when someone makes a suggestion, I do listen. I also like to know what their exepriences are that led them to that. So I appreciate your story. When my son was looking at schools, I had to figure quite a few things out as my background - engineering and accounting - is quite different from music. So the things that were brought up by Sidecut and you were definitely discussed. As with SJTH, my son wanted to go for the typical college experience. His only thought other than music industry/sound recording was economics, but there was never any passion pulling him to economics. Also, he does have interest in those more difficult jobs you mentioned. At this point, he is almost done with his first year of college and when he made his choice, he did it with the best information he had at the time and he is not looking back.</p>
<p>I should have opened my post differently. I didn’t mean to infer that people wouldn’t listen, it was more a case of me reading something that sounded so accurate and getting excited. Over many years of both engineering and playing at various studios which are often partly staffed with interns from the one major university with a recording program in our city, I had a developed a dim view of recording programs in general , which was unfair. Spend some 12 hour days running sessions with interns and you eventually hear in detail about every class they take and their opinions of the teachers, etc. I haven’t been impressed. But lately I’ve been shopping music schools/ conservatories with my daughter and just out of interest been checking out some of what’s out there at the music schools and I’m very impressed. Not I’ve never worked with the final product but the course lists and their general progression over the four years appears to be really well thought out. I’ve just been working with kids in a crappy program. I would recommend to anyone that they should look into the highly technical approaches because, at least around here the local studio music jobs have vaporized. Everybody records their own band with Pro Tools or Logic in their basement, but the more complex jobs involving multi media will only be getting harder to learn and the harder they are to learn, the less competition you have.</p>
<p>My S12 is wrestling with a similar decision right now. He’s been accepted to Capital U’s conservatory as a BM/Music Tech major (bass guitar). They also offer a BA/Music Tech (same tech classes but not the performance and lessons) and he’s considering that, though it may affect his scholarship in addition to about half of his class requirements.</p>
<p>There are still a couple of LACs in play too.</p>
<p>May 1st is coming sooner than he’s ready for, I think…</p>
<p>ohiobassmom - son twelve? I sure hope you are getting some good financial aid with that many. Please let us know about those LAC acceptances if he would be a music major at any of them.</p>
<p>LOL, S** class of** '12, I left out the apostrophe (is it still called an apostrophe when it precedes a year-part? Hmm…)</p>
<p>The conservatory is in the lead right now but he’s doing a last (?) visit this week to be sure. He’ll start as a BM I think, but leave open the possibility of switching to BA. Either way still in the con.</p>
<p>“I had a developed a dim view of recording programs in general , which was unfair. Spend some 12 hour days running sessions with interns and you eventually hear in detail about every class they take and their opinions of the teachers, etc. I haven’t been impressed.”</p>
<p>jb1966, I can appreciate what you are saying. I don’t know that accounting or engineering interns spend time doing this. What do you mean when you say you are not impressed? Are they not taught well? Do they complain about their teachers? Does this happen because there is downtime? What do you want to hear from them? Just curious. My son will be an intern one of these days.</p>
<p>“If you are seriously interested in becoming a recording engineer or producer then I would not waste my time or money on a college or university. I see resumes everyday from people that went to places such as Berklee, Peabody or Full Sail. They have $200K of debt and not much else.” (posted by sidecut)</p>
<p>I think this makes a lot of sense. This field does not require a university degree. If you are studying something else, such as music performance, and won’t come out of school with any debt, then that’s fine.</p>
<p>Years ago my brother worked at a recording studio in Manhattan as a recording engineer. I recall that he recorded Itzak Perlman a number of times there. But my brother was in grad school at Mannes on oboe (on scholarship) and was primarily a professional oboe player. He never studied recording engineering or worked as an intern. It was something he just picked up as one of his part-time music jobs. He could have gone into that profession full time had he wanted to, with no study or degree in the field.</p>
<p>With all this discussion about the value, of a degree in audio engineering, has anyone out there been through, or have a child that has been through one of these big school programs? I know sort of what happens to a musician that goes through one of these programs - something like grad school, auditioning for orchestras, doing church gigs and maybe eventually teaching - because I hear all about the former students from their parents or see them at jobs - but what is life like for a say a Peabody audio engineer graduate ?</p>
<p>Unfortunately there is some blunt truth here. Sidecut has it correct. A large number of recording techs learned their trade on the job. A college education can be a boost for anyone but this field does not require academic training. The job prospects are also poor. Recording studios have been on the decline for a long time and the future for the studios and jobs are poor. The major employment for individuals with similar skills is as radio “engineers”. Responsibilities, pay, and advancement opportunities are poor.</p>
<p>So with the poor job prospects and not even a requirement for a college degree, why are there so many training programs? Colleges and universities offer the courses and programs their students want even if prospects for employment are poor. Students and parents of students who are interested in music certainly know that employment prospects for musicians, especially classical musicians, are poor. Practical training in something like recording seems like a natural fit – unfortunately the job prospects in this field are not better and there are way, way too many programs to match the very limited employment opportunities. If a student really has a desire to major in music, great and then later decide whether to continue with music or another career. Recording should be a last choice and not something that sounds like a good idea as a fall back position in case the music career fails.</p>