Reed College Student Ejected from Lecture for Controversial Rape Views

Although I’m a frequent lurker of more juvenile forums, I posted this in the Parents forum to hear more enlightening perspective of this issue–the issue of silencing student’s opinions on rape in favor of “groupthink” and “indoctrination.”

While rape and sexual assault has been a problem on many campuses across the country, the incidence of potential false accusations should not be ignored. The buzz feed article discusses a student who was removed from the classroom due to his different (albeit controversial) perspective of rape on college campuses. To what extent do we sacrifice open and honest dialogue to coddle to the emotions of others? My alma mater had it’s notorious and highly televised share of false rape accusations a few years ago so I find it worth discussing the seriousness of both rape and false accusations by supposed victims.

Was the Reed college professor justified in removing the student from class discussions? Why or why not?

I personally am torn on this topic.

http://www.buzzfeed.com/katiejmbaker/college-professor-bans-student-from-class-for-his-views-on-r?bffb&utm_term=4ldqpgp#.lhn9wG4Agg

“Right now, going to college is a terrifying experience if you are male.”

He gets no sympathy from me. Are you really afraid for your life, dude? Were you advised to buy pepper spray and a whistle before you even stepped onto campus?

He got called out for being a jerk and that is apparently “terrifying.”

He actually wasn’t banned from the class, just from the discussion section or “conference” part of it. I have to wonder how annoying/idiotic/threatening he must have been to warrant being kicked out of there.

On one hand, I have been stuck in lectures where one person with strident views monopolizes the discussion making the same point repeatedly. A good moderator learns when to cut these people off to give other people a chance to speak and how to make sure that people understand that you can express your opinion without being reductive and belittling. This isn’t something unique to college lectures; meetings, JAD sessions, and other group discussions are prone to monomaniacal filibustering (getting stuck on the same narrow issue and repeating it over and over…) and one person drowning out everyone else.

On the other hand, banning someone from a lecture because of the content of their opinion (rather than the manner in which they express it) kind of defeats the point of a discussion. If the goal is to specifically cover a certain area, then the professor should have made it clear what the discussion is and isn’t about. He might have had a separate discussion for false accusations of rape and made that the focus of its own session so that people who are concerned about that have room to speak.

But it’s misleading to say, “this is a wide open session where you can say anything you want about this broad issue, except for these secret hidden caveats that I won’t tell you about until after you have broken them,” While the professor may have made the right call for this set of students, he’s now inadvertently turned this one student into The Victim Of Oppression. Instead of the debate being about rape and sexual assault in college, now it’s about this one kid getting ejected from a lecture, which is another version of how discussions about rape in any context inevitably become all about false accusations to the exclusion of any other facet of the issue.

It is difficult to balance the tradition of free speech at colleges with the possibility of offending other students. The ejected student is being overly dramatic about the situation, and I think the professor acted a bit rashly as well. Perhaps giving the student a warning before ejection, or holding a separate discussion for potentially offensive things to be discussed would have been a more rational approach.

To play devil’s advocate, it seems like college students wanted freedom of speech when conservative views were the mainstream. Now that liberal views are mainstream, college students want speech to be restricted.

66% of sexual assaults are never reported to police.
https://www.rainn.org/statistics
Anecdotally, this seems accurate, in my own experience.
I have been sexually assaulted ( to the point of the assailant/s forcibly detaining me and removing &/or going under my clothing, over five times, including two rapes, starting when I was 13.

We do live in a rape culture. Where victims are routinely blamed/ discouraged from pressing charges.
Is misogyny really a “conservative” value?
http://www.newrepublic.com/article/116623/sexual-assault-patrick-henry-college-gods-harvard

If someone believes that the status quo should be maintained, and that the world should continue to be biased toward what benefits wealthy white men, why the hell are they at Reed?

He was repeatedly warned. It is up to the professor to decide what is and isn’t approriate in his/her classroom. They did that, the student ignored it, and now he’s paying the consequences.

Seems pretty straightforward.

Reed is probably one of the most PC colleges available. If the student was not ready to hold his tongue on sensitive topics, he should have enrolled elsewhere. That being said, if he is just a plain jerk, he might have been better off at a large Uni with large classes, so he wouldn’t have too many discussions sessions until he hopefully matured and is taking smaller upper division classes.

I think Reed may attract students who think rattling the cage is the same as substantive discourse.
I expect profs at Reed, also wouldn’t allow class time to be wasted by students who were advocating for creationism to be taught in an evolutionary biology class.
They do often have students moderate themselves, and allow for a great deal of dissent in the seminars, so IMO, he must have been pretty disruptive.

Reading the article, the content of his speech doesn’t sound objectionable. He apparently raised the point that sexual assault numbers are difficult to interpret and likely inflated by inclusion of lots of things that are possibly or definitely sexual assault being lumped in with “rape”. This seems a fair point of discussion - albeit somewhat far afield from rape in ancient Greece.
The other example given in the Buzzfeed article was “True upset students when he said that it was understandable that the Holocaust happened given that people are not often taught to question systems of oppression”. Again, it doesn’t seem that he claimed the Holocaust didn’t happen, but that people’s reluctance to question authority led to it.

Neither of these seems all that controversial to me, so I can only assume he was acting like a massive jerk in how he conducted himself or presented his arguments and that’s what actually got him thrown out - not the content of his speech.

Also, to the poster who above who suggested this was a privileged white male…from the photo in the Buzzfeed article it appears he is a black man who goes out in public with a parrot. Seems like a typical Reedie from the photo. :slight_smile:

It is impossible to tell from the buzzfeed article what really went on as it is all from the kid’s point of view. If you read his emails (linked to in the article), he is being harassed by those that disagree with his views which he thinks is interfering with his ability to get an education at Reed. If he was removed from class for his views that might upset some, that does not seem right. If he was removed because it was impossible to have a discussion and he was disruptive and unwilling to listen to others, that may make more sense in the context of this type of class. Again, not possible to tell.

I didn’t say he was white, but to disavow the rape culture that exists, even at Reed, is often the province of those who are committed to maintaining the status quo.

His exhortations were making several people in seminar who were sexual assault survivors very uncomfortable. Additionally, according to the email from the prof to the student, his personal comments to others in & outside of class, as well as on Facebook, were upsetting enough to them, to affect their ability to concentrate in other classes.

The prof, ( who is also a black man), gave him the opportunity to retain credit for the class.

Seminar isn’t supposed to be the Jeremiah True show.

I am torn, while I think open discussion and dialog is an important part of college life,there has to be limits to it, because what one person sees as discussion can be someone being deliberately provocative or quite frankly, rather than try to stir discussion, is there to basically make people feel uncomfortable. I wonder if True would be quite as open if a student in discussion brought up issues with treatment of women in the AA community by AA males, and said something to the effect that of course he (true) would be defending rape, somehow I don’t think he would be upset if the professor ruled that out of bounds. What if some rich kid who grew up with a silver spoon in his mouth went on and on about how the poor are poor because they are lazy, because their parents didn’t work hard and so forth, how would a kid who came from a family who struggled feel? That kid could argue that he was fomenting discussion, but is he, or is he using the ‘discussion platform’ to attack others? Should a kid be able to monopolize the conversation, should he be allowed to go off on his own agenda when others had moved on?

I also wonder about this kid, when he made a statement that sexual assault isn’t rape, shouldn’t be treated as rape, I really wonder about him as a person, reminds me a little too much of those with the Ray Rice case who made the argument he was justified in knocking his fiancee cold, because ‘she provoked it’. The fact that in the face of fellow students telling him that they found the way and what he was discussing to be uncomfortable, that he kept it up, says a lot about him and why the professor did what he did, and the fact that the professor talked to another one about it before acting says he didn’t just do this knee jerk. There is a difference between open discussion and an open forum to attack others, and by him continually harping on the ‘fact’ that many rape cases are revenge by the woman, or that sexual assault (such I presume as date rape, where a girl is knocked out by booze or whatever and the guy uses her sexually) isn’t rape, he is attacking the veracity of anyone who claims she was raped, and worse, he is doing it to people in the room who may have been a victim of rape and in effect saying they are liars or what happened to them ‘wasn’t rape, so get over it’. This isn’t debating a political view, the guy continued to make statements he knew made others feel badly, was told by them they were uncomfortable, and kept it up, and what it shows to me is someone lacking empathy for anyone else…and I would bet a lot of money that had the topic been something close to him, like issues of his race vis a vis the topic at hand, he would be complaining that the professor didn’t shut down those arguing their point as being racist and making him feel bad. Put it this way, if I am discussing something and someone says that it makes them uncomfortable, either in the way I am saying it or in the topic, I’ll take their feelings into consideration and either find a way to discuss the topic without making them feel badly or will quite honestly, unless it is a matter I feel so strongly about (which I doubt this kid did, by the way, he sounds more like a professional AH, who delights in making others angry or feeling bad, rather than having any kind of ideas himself). I am sure he will become a cause celebre of certain quarters crying PC and so forth, but the reality is to me he comes off as an arrogant jerk, not a crusader for truth but someone who simply loves creating a tsimmis, as long of course as he isn’t on the other hand of it.

“Reed is probably one of the most PC colleges available.”

But to think a liberal arts college is this PC is against what liberal arts colleges were intended for in the first place.

Per the article, his Facebook page says he studies “How to Annoy People” at Reed.

He’s a jerk who gets a kick out of upsetting people and ticking them off. After being respectfully asked to cool it, he instead became more and more aggressive and offensive. A total jerk.

The prof had warned him repeatedly, and wrote this in his email to the jerk: “The entire conference without exception, men as well as women, feel that your presence makes them uncomfortable enough that they would rather not be there if you are there, and they have said that things you have said in our conference have made them so upset that they have difficulty concentrating in other classes."

Reading these responses I wonder if some of you actually read his letter.

He questions the validity of the 1 in 5 statistic, pointing out that the study authors themselves did not think it should be applied to other schools. This is a point that has been made by many others. Lots of what he says covers discussions we have had here. He objects to “sexual assault,” such as being groped, being lumped in with penetration without consent as rape. His stated reason is that he thinks that the terrible wounds inflicted by the latter are often far more serious, not that either is in any way acceptable or not a big deal. I think that’s a valid point. He doesn’t believe that “rape culture” exists, yet he makes the point that as a black man raised by black women who did suffer sexual assault he abhors it. As a black man, he is aware of society viewing HIS sexuality as a threat. Are you going to deny the historical accuracy of this? So this makes him a rape denier and sexist? In what universe?

He’s a young black man. Wanna rethink that?

He says that unwillingness to question “systems of oppression” led to the Holocaust, he doesn’t deny it or downplay the horror of it. I think he is absolutely correct.

Maybe he is inclined to ride a hobbyhorse is group discussion. Maybe he’s a jerk. But to me, it doesn’t sound as if he deserves the treatment he has apparently gotten.

Is it PC to have restrictions on inflammatory language that is inflammatory for its own sake, not truly to begin a dialogue?

True is a freshman, I expect he will learn some social skills even at Reed, and find more appropriate courses or interest groups where he can learn to critically argue, without trying to shut out dissenting opinions.

[quote]
Is it PC to have restrictions on inflammatory language that is inflammatory for its own sake, not truly to begin a dialogue?

[quote]

What evidence do you have that this is true of him?

Again, what evidence do you have that this is true of him?

So far, it would appear that he is the one whose dissent is being silenced.

-shrugs- Didn’t know he was black. Still, the college life of a male student is “terrifying”???

I guess I don’t have evidence that he will learn social skills, other than likely living and working with others closely usually results in those skills being learned.
The amount of reading and writing in college, gives students a much broader perspective, as does the wisdom acquired with getting older, if they are open to it.
I don’t see much evidence he has been open to others reality, which he admits re his Facebook postings.