Reed v.s. Hampshire

Although the former discussion comparing the two colleges has been closed, I have extensive experiences with both institutions and can speak to each of their strengths and weaknesses.

Academically, Reed is indisputably the better college, albeit because the curriculum is more grounded in the classics, and is more “distribution requirement” oriented than Hampshire is Hampshire’s academics vary widely from whatever school you are concentrating in, and are widely divergent, depending on which Divisional level you are at. That being said, Hampshire’s academics are supplemented and bolstered by its membership in the 5 colleges, and Amherst, Smith and Mt. Holyoke FAR surpass Reed in terms of prestige and academic rigor. Not to mention the resources of UMass Amherst, which also makes it a more dynamic academic community than Reed has on its single campus. Though, Portland does have Portland State University (PSU), University of Portland and University of Oregon/Portland. Lewis & Clark College, Pacific Northwest College of Art, and Oregon Health Sciences University (OHSU) but none of these institutions are connected to Reed like the five colleges are to each other.

Socially, the two schools are VERY similar, they tend to attract the same kinds of students. At Reed, it was quirky Californians, at Hampshire, it was quirky New Yorkers. Reed is definitely west coast, and Hampshire is definitely east coast. Drugs are an issue on both campuses, as they are at most “upper crusty” LAC’s where the students come from families that have money and privilege. This is nothing new, and honestly, both campuses have sober-living options on campus. In terms of college size and being residential living/learning communities, Reed and Hampshire are almost identical sister schools, and that’s where the differences start.

Reed’s social scene is a bit more “intellectual” in a sense that it’s more cosmopolitan because of its location in Portland, and Hampshire does not have that (Hampshire’s social scene is more “on-campus party” oriented). Although Northampton and Amherst are pretty cool funky college towns, and they do have a cultural vitality all their own, they aren’t on the same level as a major urban area (and they empty out at the end of the school year, and become dead over Summers and Winters). Portland provides year-round cultural opportunities and doesn’t ever shut down as small college towns do. UMass Amherst provides most of the cultural performing arts events in the area. Fortunately, Hampshire is within close distance of several major urban areas, but Springfield, MA or Hartford, CT aren’t nearly the kind of sophisticated, culturally vibrant city that Portland is. Portland is more on the level of Boston and Providence, and those cities are within a couple of hours drive of Hampshire’s campus but aren’t ten minutes away like downtown Portland is to Reed.

Reed wins hands down in terms of being in an urban location in my opinion. Portland also has other institutions of higher learning (as I stated earlier), though Reed is not linked to them the same way the five-colleges are linked to each other. Reed’s Science Department partners with local Portland public schools, but all other academic departments are separate from the larger urban environment of Portland. I attended Reed classes, spent time with Reed students socially, toured the campus extensively, attended theater, music and dance performances on campus, and basically, I could see myself attending school there, and Reed’s campus is beautiful.

Personally speaking, I am a Hampshire graduate, but, I did apply to Reed as a transfer student when I was living in Portland for a year on academic leave from Hampshire, because I really was attracted to the city and it’s arts scene, and it’s relatively affordable cost of living, and I could have stayed in my apartment (about a 10 minute drive from Reed’s campus) and lived off-campus in Portland itself. At Hampshire I HAD to live on-campus, because there was an insane process to go through the housing office to live off-campus. Though I did move off-campus right before graduation and ended up living in Northampton for a while and working and applying to Grad Schools.

In my highly individual, specific situation, it came down to a couple of different reasons I didn’t end up accepting Reed’s transfer admission offer and moved back east to finish my degree at Hampshire. #1: Money – simply put, Reed didn’t give me as significant of a financial aid package to transfer, versus Hampshire which gave me nearly a full year’s tuition (for my last two years) to come back and finish my degree. #2: My personal academic focus – Hampshire has a Film program, Reed doesn’t. The Theater programs (at that time in the mid-90’s) of both schools were about the same. Hampshire’s theater facilities and Reed’s were comparable back then as well. However, now, with Reed’s new Performance Arts Building, the facilities FAR outrank Hampshire’s. If I were choosing between the two schools again, Reed would win hands down. #3: Graduation timeline – if I had chosen Reed, I would have had to repeat my second year of college over again (Reed’s distribution requirements), thus taking me five years total in time to graduate, meaning three years, rather than two at Reed. I only had two more years left at Hampshire, so it made more sense to return.

The two schools are highly alike and attract the same kinds of students, yet couldn’t be more different. Hampshire is a more experimental wholly narrative evaluation based (though you can take five-college classes for grades) system and has a self-directed project and creative-based curriculum with few requirements “proseminar style” classes, and is more like graduate school Whereas, Reed is more “conference” class style based, has a more traditional distribution requirement curriculum, and you can choose narrative evaluation/grade options. At opposite ends of the country, urban v.s. rural campus, both the EXACT same size (1,400 students) and both offering students a wide range of academic opportunity. I don’t regret choosing Hampshire over Reed ultimately, because every student has to do what’s right for them. If I were going to do it all again, I would have applied to Reed as an undergraduate, rather than as a transfer student. If Reed were part of the five college system, I would say it has more in common with Amherst than with Hampshire, and that also gave me pause, having taken classes for a yeat at, and dealt with the elitist pretentious Amherst students (I met a couple of cool Amherst students also though, so that’s anywhere at ANY school). Amherst and Hampshire are about as different as two schools in a consortium in the same geographical location get. Reedies and Hampsters have more in common politically and both are unconventional student bodies (Hampshire maybe a bit more than Reed), yet Reed is definitely more traditional as Hampshire is experimental.

Can you cite any measurements (or other objective information) to clarify the difference?
For example, for some colleges, the NSSE has compiled statistics on average reading loads, the average number of term papers of varying lengths, and other indicators of course rigor. I don’t know if they have surveyed these 4 schools.

Reed has a senior thesis requirement, along with a junior qualifying examination and a post-thesis comprehensive oral examination. Do Amherst, Smith, and Mt. Holyoke have similar requirements?
https://www.reed.edu/catalog/edu_program.html
https://www.reed.edu/academic/gbook/acad_pol/senior.html

Reed has long had a reputation for academic rigor. It perennially ranks among the top colleges by percentage of alumni who earn doctorates. I’m surprised to see a claim that several peer schools “FAR” surpass it for academic rigor. FWIW, in 2015 Unigo compiled a list of the “Top 10 Colleges That Will Kick Your Butt”. They ranked Reed #1, ahead of MIT, Swarthmore, UChicago, CMU, Harvard, UPenn, JHU, Caltech, and Columbia. I haven’t found a description of their methodology, though.

Reed may have a greater percentage of alums who earn doctorates, but then again, so does Hampshire (65% of Hampshire graduates go on to earn doctorates, which isn’t impressive by Reed’s standards I know, but you have to remember, Hampshire was only founded in 1965 and opened in 1970). 92% of faculty members at Hampshire hold the terminal degree in their field as well (many of them from the Ivies). Hampshire does have a Division III Retrospective (similar to Reed’s Senior Thesis) that is chaired by your Divisional Professorial Committee (very much like Reed’s post-thesis comprehensive oral exam) and you only pass and can graduate when you have defended your Retrospective adequately and upon formal approval by all members of your committee, otherwise you have to enroll for an additional semester in order to finish and go through the process once again. Most often this will (but not always) include a five college faculty member(s) on the student’s committee. I had to defend my retrospective to two Hampshire professors, a UMass Amherst, AND a Smith professor (students are expected to have between 3-4 faculty members on their committees) which was quite academically rigorous. This is the one way in which Hampshire and Reed are quite academically similar.

https://www.hampshire.edu/academics/academics

Although Reed and Hampshire may use different terminology and methodology to describe the Senior process, the outcome is the same baccalaureate conferred conclusion. I never besmirched Reed’s “long had a reputation for academic rigor” in fact, I explicitly state that Reed is indisputably academically superior to Hampshire. And individually I’m thinking Reed is definitely in the same league as Amherst academically. Though more socially and politically akin to Hampshire. Do I honestly believe that Reed is superior to the combined Five College Consortium with it’s combined five campus resources of four colleges AND a major university? Or the combined collective prestige and academic rigor of Amherst + Smith + Mt. Holyoke? No, I do not believe it is. If you want me to cite measurements, I know that Amherst and Smith were both last surveyed by the NSSE in 2008, and that Mt. Holyoke doesn’t participate. Like you, I’m not certain if the NSSE has ever compiled a study on how those three institutions would stack up against Reed, but it would be an interesting read.

http://nsse.indiana.edu/html/participants.cfm?name_keyword=Amherst+College&include_surveys=NSSE&min_year=2000&max_year=2017&governance=&orderby=State&aButton=Collect+Results&action=Collect+Results&bypass_struct=1

http://nsse.indiana.edu/html/participants.cfm?name_keyword=Smith&include_surveys=NSSE&min_year=2000&max_year=2017&governance=&orderby=State&aButton=Collect+Results&action=Collect+Results&bypass_struct=1

And yes, Amherst, Smith and Mt. Holyoke all have similar Senior Thesis or distribution requirements in order to graduate. Amherst calls it an “Honor Thesis”, Smith has a rigorous “Writing Requirement” and intensive credit distribution requirements but no Thesis process per se (however they do in their Master’s Programs). Same for Mt. Holyoke.

https://www.amherst.edu/academiclife/departments

https://www.smith.edu/academics/academic-program/curriculum/degree-requirements

https://www.mtholyoke.edu/acad/degrees

We’re both saying the same thing about Reed. I thought Reed was an amazing place. Had they given me a better financial aid package as a transfer student (and weren’t going to make me repeat my second year over again because of Reed’s specific distribution requirements), I would have transferred from Hampshire immediately. As I said before, overall I don’t regret my decision to get my degree from Hampshire (especially since they increased my financial aid package for my last two years because they knew they’d lose me to Reed), and I have gone on to have plenty of success and did well in graduate school and earned an MFA, have several post-graduate Certification credentials and have a good career, and enjoy my life, but I’m sure I would have a Doctorate if I’d gone to Reed. That kind of intellectual greatness is what Reed is all about. I wanted to be a Reedie. Loved being a Hampster and all, but being a Reedie IS more prestigious.

That’s not exactly the same as Reed, Swarthmore and UChicago giving the heaviest workloads.

I should have worded my initial statement differently. I meant to say the COMBINED prestige and the COMBINED academic rigor of Amherst, Smith & Mt. Holyoke (as three institutions) far surpasses Reed (as one institution) is ALL I meant. I wouldn’t even put UChicago (my Mother’s alma mater coincidentally) in the LAC comparison category, it’s more like the Ivies. Swarthmore I know NOTHING about. I remember a friend of mine from high school went to Bryn Mawr, and that Swarthmore is part of the Quaker Consortium, along with Bryn Mawr, Haverford and Penn. That’s literally all I know about it.

Academic rigor, unlike, say, resources, does not seem clearly related to access to associated colleges. In some cases, wider access actually could create a dilution effect with respect to rigor.

Maybe there was a good reason the prior thread was closed.

@AboutTheSame, you have an excellent point there. I never should have reactivated the thread. People seem almost offended that I would dare to say something against Reed (which I didn’t and in fact PRAISED Reed to the stars), the school just didn’t give me a good enough reason to transfer financially. And GASP! seemingly offended that I even make the attempt to compare Reed and Hampshire. Although one I’m an Alumnus of and spent four years at, and the other was a school I nearly transferred to, spending the better part of a year visiting and touring the Reed campus (I lived nearby), socializing with the students, talking to Professors, and administrative staff, seeing music, dance and theater performances on campus, as well as sitting in on classes. Reed accepted me as a transfer student, so obviously they considered me intellectually capable enough to handle Reed’s “undiluted academic rigor.” Believe me, I did my research and contrasted and compared the two schools critically. It wasn’t a decision I was about to make lightly. In all honesty, if a consortium like the Five Colleges (or academic consortia in general) is thought to “create a dilution effect with respect to rigor” – @merc81, what does that really even mean?

@Hampster: The comment has a mathematical basis, and was also hypothetical.

Which, by definition means: “assumed or supposed.” In all actuality, the consortium enhances and creates a more dynamic and vital learning environment, while still retaining all the benefits of each individual campus’ resources. And to be honest, all five schools in the consortium are no weaker in their individual academic rigor because they are consortium members. Amherst classes are just as rigorous and demanding for Hampshire students as they are for Amherst students, or Smith students or Mt. Holyoke students. UMass/Amherst even is a very well-respected and academically rigorous (depending on department and via either graduate or undergraduate divisions) research university, for being a large state school (certainly on par with the likes of Michigan or Wisconsin). Hampshire students still are designing their educations like graduate students and pushing themselves by being as self-motivated and focused as they can be, which is pretty rigorous for undergrads (though it’s up to each individual student) which is what makes Hampshire so unique, students either succeed there or they don’t. There’s no in-between.

From students I’ve known, I’ve heard that there’s a very strong difference in intensity and pressure–both schools are laid-back socially, but only Hampshire is also (relatively!) laid-back academically, and the #1 thing I hear from Reedies is that it’s very academically intense and demanding.

@marvin100, I’ll agree with you in as much that it USED to be that way. Hampshire has changed a LOT since I graduated in 1998, and it has become more academically rigorous, as well as more structured and distribution requirement demanding (especially at the Div I level), versus its looser more fluid academic structure of 20+ years ago. Hampshire tends to shift and change with academia’s demands, which is one reason I really loved the school, because of it’s “experimenting” nature.

That being said, I myself nearly transferred to Reed when I was halfway through Hampshire, BECAUSE of the fact that I wasn’t finding Hampshire academically demanding ENOUGH. Anyway, the major difference between the two is that while Hampshire has some students who are intelligent, intellectual, motivated and focused and are utilizing the college (and the consortium) the way they should, there are other students who flunk out, transfer out (a lot transfer in too, FYI, because they realize they want more “control” over shaping their own education than they were getting at more “traditional” institutions), or get kicked out because they can’t “hack” the rigors and the expectations of the Divisional system the way Hampshire expects them to. Reed is the EXACT opposite, in that ALL students are there for intellectual and academic rigor, and the school is more structured compared to Hampshire. It’s more endowed than Hampshire, has a MUCH longer history and deeper intellectual breadth than Hampshire, it’s pedagogy is a bit more classically grounded, and it’s DEFINITELY not as “experimental” or “experimenting” as Hampshire is. I daresay Reed attracts more intellectually grounded students than Hampshire because of the fact that it’s so academically rigorous.

In my exhaustive posts on this (and I won’t re-state it all again), I will just say that where Reed and Hampshire have their differences, they also share similarities. They’re both the same EXACT size (1,400+ students), they both utilize narrative evaluations instead of letter grading (though Reed does record actual grades that students can get upon request) Hampshire records NO letter grade at all (which is why Hampshire students can take classes at the four other schools if they want grades on their transcripts). Both encourage interdisciplinary approaches to learning, and they both require a Thesis-based approach to get the Bachelor’s degree. The “Division III” process at Hampshire is the same as the “Senior Thesis” process at Reed, they just use different terminology, but the requirements and the committee formation is more or less the same exact process.

Hampshire does give better financial aid than Reed does, and I am living proof of that since Reed gave me such a paltry financial aid package as a transfer student (plus required that I take my second year over again just to satisfy their “distribution requirements”). Which I guess speaks to Reed’s “intellectual superiority” as an institution since A’s and B’s from my Amherst, Smith and UMass classes didn’t impress them on my Hampshire transcript. Oh well, I still got in, but it was less than ideal financially, and when Hampshire gave me nearly a full-ride for my last two years to come back East and finish my degree (without having to repeat a year), and I was still able to graduate on time; those were ultimately the deciding factors for me to pack up my apartment in Portland, and move back to Amherst.

@Hampster1998 wrote,

Hampshire may have a lot of students who go on to further study. but it’s rate of graduates who earn PhDs is 8.68%, not 65%. Reed’s rate is 19.41%.

https://www.hampshire.edu/news/2018/01/23/hampshire-a-top-40-college-for-alums-earning-a-doctorate-federal-data-reveals

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