<p>UCLA, PhD, you lose your credibility when you say things like "I would send people to Berkeley or UCLA before I would send them to Pomona." </p>
<p>If a person WANTED to go to Berkeley or UCLA over Pomona, I certainly wouldn't stop them. But your characterization of Pomona as "cute" is just silly. I don't think I need to go into numbers about grad school acceptances, Fulbright scholars, etc... the people who are in the know already know that Pomona is an academic powerhouse. You might think the campus is cute, but that's not really the point.</p>
<p>It's not a lesser choice. It's a different choice. Amherst and Brown are great choices too.</p>
<p>Grim, I am less of an expert on Brown (as I said above I went to Pomona and Harvard), but I have friends who went there. It is a bit more artsy than Harvard. The students tend to be more politically active also. Providence is very different from Cambridge, obviously.</p>
<p>Thanks for the advice, guys. I think I'm leaning towards Harvard. BUT I just found out I'm getting a free ticket out to visit Pomona--which means I will have the opportunity to see whether Pomona or Amherst is a better fit for me. Hopefully I will get the same opportunity from Harvard! :D</p>
<p>Actually Irene, I am doing the responsible thing. How often do world leaders hold faculty positions at Pomona College? Or even go there to speak for that matter? Pomona is great, especially if you have money. I know many people who received "aid" from Pomona and it was still cheaper to go to a UC with NO aid. And please who turns down HARVARD for Pomona? Seriously, let's me honest about that.</p>
<p>Interesting. You never answered Irene's observation that aparently revealed your UC bias. I'm sure we can't go on for pages arguing about whether UCLA or Bekerley or Pomona is better for undergrad, but with these 3, there is no clear cut choice. Whether you like it or not, Pomona can hold its own against these 2 in the undergrad education - but these are 3 different schools. I'm not going to get into "my school is better than your school" argument in this forum, but feel free to search the forum. Plenty has been said on this. </p>
<p>I'll also have you know that Pomona has continued to expand its financial aid in recent years, eliminated loans, and the like. The average cost to attend Pomona after need based aid is $18,780 according to Kiplinger, and about 53% of students already receive aid. Thumbing your nose up at our "prohibitive costs" based on anecdotal advice is not going to win you any props on this forum, even if you have a PhD.</p>
<p>You don't even go to our school. Of course we don't have world renowned profs, but we had a good number of "academically-renowned" profs coming to speak on linguistics, kosovo, and other disciplines and a number of top financial experts are coming over to speak in our Wall Street Weekend. Go to our website, if you can, and look. We know we need to attract good speakers, and we are getting them to come, and we are continually working on getting more to come. Nowhere near the influence of UCLA or UCB certainly, but plenty enough to satisfy a varied number of interests. Hopefully as Pomona College raises its profile in the nation and in Asia (The 5C presidents are going around Asia promoting the Claremont schools), people with such disdainful attitudes of us will...diminish in number.</p>
<p>Back to the topic. "please who turns down Harvard for Pomona?" Answer: a few. Some actually do. But does the vast majority turn down Harvard for Pomona? No. What we want is the OP to make the best choice possible based on the school that would be best for him. We certainly trust him to make the right choice. He's smart enough to get into such good schools, he's smart enough to take the good advice that we give to his advantage. Don't claim you're doing the 'responsible thing' by spurting such shamefully misinformed and stereotypical statements that will be of no help to the OP. </p>
<p>Shogun, glad to see you're visiting. I'm doing admitted student lunches over the weekend, so I may actually be the person having lunch with you and your parents lol. Whatever it is, even if you've already decided on Harvard, have fun with the visits. =)</p>
<p>Well D.T. "But does the vast majority turn down Harvard for Pomona? No." That was exactly my point. The question is one of opportunity and connections that one makes for the future. Now of course if Pomona or Amherst offer a full ride and Harvard does not and money is an issue, then by all means take the full ride. All things being equal, as your own statements suggest Harvard is the obvious choice. As for a UC bias, no, I have a financial aid bias and frankly the UC's do not step up to the plate in that regard. A couple of other points: </p>
<p>"He's smart enough to get into such good schools, he's smart enough to take the good advice that we give to his advantage."</p>
<p>Actually we are having this discussion with a "she" not a "he." It is always good to pay close attention to who you are dealing with. I can also recommend some readings, if you like, to help get over your apparent gender bias.</p>
<p>"Don't claim you're doing the 'responsible thing' by spurting such shamefully misinformed and stereotypical statements that will be of no help to the OP."</p>
<p>Actually, in spite of your efforts to police this thread, my evidence is not anecdotal, it is in fact REAL. I do know many students who received 1/2 tuition scholarships from Pomona, but opted for a UC because the UC fees were in fact LESS THAN HALF the cost of Pomona tuition. For students who are not of financial means, the RESPONSIBLE thing to do is to opt for a UC or take a full ride elsewhere if that is an option. Not everyone is this world can afford to live in places like Claremont.</p>
<p>One last thing, I am really not here to "win props" on this forum, I am here to help students in the decision making process and to be as realistic as possible in doing so.</p>
<p>UCLA, PHD paints a completely false picture of Pomona, and I would really suggest skipping his out-of-place comments on the UC system, which I transferred out of for Harvey Mudd. As for who has done what from which school; try and ignore those - not only have each of these schools produced a great number of world-famous graduates, but these graduates are such a small % of each colleges overall alum base, that to consider them as weights is absurd. </p>
<p>That being said, there is certainly a number of people who chose Pomona over Harvard and there will be plenty in the future; they might be in the minority but for anybody willing to disregard the prestige of Harvard it becomes a difficult choice, and perhaps even favored toward Pomona for undergraduate.</p>
<p>Honestly, if you can visit both schools. Pomona has a large enough endowment where you could potentially talk them into flying you down to give you a taste for admitted students weekend (they have one right?). If you mention you are leaning toward Pomona over Harvard or on the brink, it could be worth their investment to flop you down.</p>
<p>And on a side note, UCLA, PhD, please remember that this is a discussion on college, not a personal arguement space for yourself. Your specific response about the gender of the poster was petty and suggest that you were trying to downplay that posters opinion just because they missed the OP's gender, just as you potentially were contemplating when I misspelled 'argument' a few lines back. </p>
<p>Though, I will highlight this portion of your response: my evidence is not anecdotal, it is in fact REAL. **I do know......
Esoteric cases that only you know about or do not happen frequently ARE anecdotal. Also, you might consider if those people you mention made the right decision; I chose a fullride over other more expensive options, and decided I needed to transfer after just 1 year.</p>
<p>Grim Shogun--
Everyone's got a different opinion. People will tell you to go here or there or somewhere else. Bottom line: go to the place you will be happy. Visit the four schools (it's great that you've got a chance to go see Pomona! Will you get to see the other schools too?) you are most interested in. Talk to some people in the arts department (especially any teachers/faculty). </p>
<p>Also consider the environment--Amherst, for example, will offer a lot more personal attention and small classes than Harvard will. Yes, Harvard is HARVARD, but that seems like a silly reason to go if that's your main reason for liking it over the other schools. Trust me, my mom went to Harvard and she always says she wishes she had applied to some more small LACs because she probably would have been much happier there.</p>
<p>I'm not saying you shouldn't go to Harvard, I'm just saying--love Harvard for what it is, not solely for the reputation it has. Don't assume that doors will be open at Harvard that won't be opened if you go to another equally prestiguous school (and all 4 of your schools are equal, if in different ways, in terms of academics). If you go and visit and love it, then it's a great school for you. But being happy where you are in college is the most important thing.</p>
<p>LOL. Yes UCLA Phd, my mistake - I didn't realize Grim Shogun was a 'she'. I mean, that totally makes me a misogynist who harbors a deep gender bias and secretly fantasizes going back to a society of machismo and dominance of the alpha male. har har har. </p>
<p>On a more serious note, apologies Shogun, I wasn't readig carefully. Nothing I said changes though.</p>
<p>Agree with poetrygirl and Seiken - find the optimum environment for yourself.</p>
<p>Regarding famous lecturers and visitors - Remember that Pomona gives you access to the Mary Miner Cook Athenaem of Claremont McKenna. That brings leading speakers/authors/whatever in and places them in a small forum where you will get to actually ask them questions and form discussions. Former President Bill Clinton was a visitor last year IIRC.</p>
<p>Harvard is fantastic, and among the Harvard graduates I have talked with about colleges(a large sum of 2), they had excellent experiences at the college. However, they said this was due to the exceptional people that attend, and getting to know such future leaders. They were rather disappointed with the actual classes they took(and 1 was in the film production department).</p>
<p>I am not in your situation, and can understand the difficulty in turning them down. However, I found a tight learning environment, like that offered by LAC's to be very important. So I did not even consider Harvard or many of its ilk. But a closer situation to your own is my relation to Stanford. I could not picture a more perfect school (weather/student type/sports/size/campus/'relaxed' vibe/etc.). It was my dream, my Harvard. So I visited - and found that my dream was not all wrong, but that I really belonged at a school like Pomona/Williams/etc., and didn't even apply to Stanford.</p>
<p>Go to the school where you will be happy. I personally would rank Pomona the winner, but if it is Harvard, Brown, Amherst, or anywhere - go there. Obviously this makes visiting very important(and considering your financial status - try to work this out so that the school pays).</p>
<p>Good luck, and congratulations for such excellent choices.</p>
<p>Unless you are recruiter for Pomona or Amherst, everyone in their right mind knows this is a no brainer. There are recruiters on these threads so perhaps we need to keep that in mind. It would be ideal if they came clean with that but not everyone is that honest, unfortunately. Good luck Grim, some of these folks are worse than Football and Basketball coaches.</p>
<p>UCLA - All you do is hype the school that offers the biggest 'name' with aid. Sorry. People should be finding the best fit for themselves, not what USNWR says is.</p>
<p>Actually, upon looking through your 54 posts they are ALL advising people to go to the highest ranked school with the best Fin. Aid, with 2 exceptions of asking about UChicago numbers and one (very wrong) post about affirmative action.</p>
<p>Seriously. You also seem to have an anti-LAC bend to things.</p>
<p>And those 54 posts are all in the past 2 days. So the way I'm seeing it - you are either a freshman in HS who can't see beyond the 'big name', that recruiter you bring up, or the biggest prestige freak I've ever seen.</p>
<p>Oh hold on DSC I should do what you do, I should pick by which has the better sports teams. Now go ask mommy and daddy for more pizza money. What I am doing is trying to alleviate students from unnecessary debt. Mounting college debt is a huge problem in this country. Also, like it or not, the "name" schools have a "name" for a reason, connections, funding etc etc etc. I do not have an anti-LAC bent, if they offer more aid, I say go with the LAC. Not everyone lives in a world where mommy and daddy can pay for everything. As for my affirmative action post, it is dead on but of course some people have an aversion to the truth and despise policies like affirmative action, especially when they benefit from keeping others in their "place."</p>
<p>You suggested that it had been declared illegal, and if you looked through my posting history, you would see that I am actually a firm supporter of AA.</p>
<p>Additionally, research funding and the like are often better at top LAC's than an Ivy or the like. How often do you hear of unpaid internships being paid for by a college? Rarely? Well Claremont McKenna does this. Want to tell me all the Ivies that do?</p>
<p>You miss the point UCLA. I am trying to tell you that Pomona is offering pretty good aid. The thing is, we don't offer merit-based aid, so perhaps this would result in many people finding it cheaper to go to UCB or UCLA instead of Pomona. But we give loads of need-based aid, and for the lower income students, Pomona (and Amherst) give very good aid precisely because we don't want to see students tied down by debt!</p>
<p>I really don't understand you. Why do we look like "rich kids" who think we live in a "perfect world" where mommy and daddy pays for everything? I doubt anyone of us has that mentality, and I really don't see how we have expressed that on this thread. We have tried to show that Pomona, Amherst, or Brown could be a better bet for the OP because they offer very different learning environments. It is not a "no brainer", and claiming that nobody in their "right mind" will choose Amherst/Pomona over Harvard is patently false. </p>
<p>Particle Man mentioned "go to the school which gives you the most money." That's definitely a factor that the OP has to consider. I mean, if Harvard gives 40,000 a year while Pomona gives like 20,000 - then certainly I would expect the OP to choose Harvard. But there are other factors in play too, it's not just about money. If the OP goes to a place which best suits her, chances are she'll do the best she can there and set herself up for a very successful career, which will also entail making a good amount of money and building up financial security.</p>
<p>I am not a recruiter. I'm merely a student who has reiterated the same advice over and over again. Go on fit. If the OP wants Harvard, then she goes to Harvard! DSC, Me, poetrygirl will all wish her the best, Hanna will be happy, and the OP will hopefully go onto great things. But if the OP chooses Brown, Amherst or Pomona - I don't think you - or anyone else, are qualified to call her "out of her mind".</p>
<p>Hanna, you're incredibly naive if you think Harvard profs enjoy teaching undergrads...yeah, even ONE of them.</p>
<p>Harvard students should be respected because each of them figured out a way to squeeze through the most arduous filtering process in the spectrum of American undergraduate education. They are NOT, repeat NOT necessarily smarter than students at lots of other schools, nor do they necessarily get a better education than those at many other schools.</p>
<p>Anybody familiar with the attributes considered when colleges hire faculty or when colleges admit students will tell you that it's far from a meritocracy. It's who you know, who's your daddy, whose views you reinforce, what you can do for them, what gender/race/ethnic statistic they are trying to increase, etc.</p>
<p>Layer on top of that the Harvard profs' notoriously low priority on teaching undergrads, and the true meaning of the Harvard B.A. starts to come into focus. It's a great door-opener, a great cocktail party ice-breaker, a great line on a resume, a great networking tool, and a great sweatshirt to wear. But please please please don't tell me you come out of Harvard any smarter than you come out of Amherst or Pomona.</p>
<p>Go to brown!! You not only get an ivy league degree with the prestige that accompanies it, but the VA programs are amazing, and the open curriculum would allow you to change majors quickly if you change your mind. Alumni networking and credibility at Brown is comparable to Harvard, and you can take classes at RISD, which is also very prestigious and will give you a great deal of credibility on your transcript.</p>