<p>Over30:
I tried to give them away last year to an afterschool program but that fell through. I'm hoping that with the Christmas season approaching, I'll have better luck. They do take up a lot of floor space!</p>
<p>Bookworm:
I feel the same about my S. Keeping my fingers crossed. I'd be happy if my S wanted to acquire a Ph.D. and go on to teach high school or community college. In fact, one of S's role models has a Ph.D. from a top school and now teaches high school. It is very clear that he loves teaching. I have not seen the same desire to share his knowledge with others in my S.</p>
<p>"Three years ago there were 385 computer-science majors at MIT. Today there are 240. The trend is similar at Stanford, Carnegie Mellon and the University of California, Berkeley."</p>
<p>I didn't understand how this had anything to do with the article. Computer science majors are way down primarily because of the dot-com bust. Many students originally wanted that field thinking it was a way to quick riches. When they discovered it was a way to quick lay-offs, they no longer were interested. Hopefully the students who are now in the field are there because of interest. Better to have the numbers slightly down (full disclosure: my s. hopes to major in CS).</p>
<p>I went to a highschool open house several years ago. The science chair said they don't worry about the kids who love science. They'll be fine. They worry far more about reaching the kids who hate science....not to turn them around, but to reach them, because the science lovers will probably be working for them someday!!!!</p>
<p>I read somewhere that an MIT dean complained some time ago that MIT grads went to work for Harvard and Princeton grads. Same idea. That seems to be one reason why MIT has been promoting entrepreneurship: so that its grads can be bosses, not employees threatened by outsourcing.</p>
<p>Some of the foreign students - those who have entrepreneurial tendences - have returned to their home countries and built companies to which work, including scientific work (not just software design) is being outsourced.</p>
<p>The following is from a report of the American Physical Society (APS); it can be found in the currrent issue of Physics Today:</p>
<hr>
<p>Until recently, APS ethics statements had focused mainly on issues related to publication of scholarly work, authorship, and refereeing practices. But a clear majority of the junior members responding to the survey feel that APS ethics statements should be broadened to include treatment of subordinates, especially graduate students and postdocs. Many of their open−ended responses described the unethical treatment of subordinates in research as a very serious problem:</p>
<pre><code>abuse of graduate students by advisers.
slavery of graduate students. Professors threaten to not write letters of recommendation unless graduate students stay in their group to produce more data.
Too often students are treated as labor instead of [as] students and progress towards finishing [their degree] relegated to secondary importance.
Truthfully, graduate school's purpose is to provide cheap, talented labor to get science done cheaply.
Treatment of 'subordinates' is appallingstudents and postdocs are merely vehicles for publication. There are no checks on abuseand reporting of any abuse usually results in the end of a subordinate's careereven if the complaint is correct and justified.
</code></pre>
<hr>
<p>Is it possible that a lot of the complaints from academia about the drop in foreign grad students is due to the reduction in the supply of cheap, uncomplaining labor?</p>
<p>I'm certain I will stir up much controversy, but I for one, am glad to see the limitations on student Visa's for graduate study. My PhD is in biomathematics and I work primarily as a statistician in a big pharma. We've hired too many foreign-born/US educated statisticians who to this day do not have the communication skills to succeed. I spend way too much time reexplaining to senior scientific staff what was done by someone who can not express themselves in English. Many of these folks are here simply to earn more money than they would in their country of birth with no desire to actually integrate into the US. They will admit that they feel like a fish out of water here, but it would be an embarassment in their eyes to return to their native country and families as a "failure".</p>
<p>By the way, I was 'Nvadad' before the forum was redone - we traded emails offline. As you may remember, my younger son (HS senior) is also very math-oriented. He still is trying to decide between a science (physics, maybe), applied-math or engineering as a major. </p>
<p>This passage from Physics Today really caught my eye. I work in an office with a lot of PhDs. A former boss (Stanford PhD) said graduate schools are very much run along the lines of the feudal system (his term). The professor has great power over the grad students - can make or break careers. He told me that <em>the</em> most important thing a PhD-seeking student can do is to find a good advisor and to start looking right from day one.</p>
<p>Secondtimearound-
I am just curious whom you think would be doing those jobs if not for the foreign born employees? Are US nationals barred from applying or not being hired? I am sure that when you decided to become a biomathematician you didn't feel that you had "signed up" to be an interpreter/translator etc. Perhaps there are ways to reduce this burden, or see it in a different light.</p>
<p>The English language skills of your co-workers can improve. Maybe suggest to the HR at your company that they provide courses/requirements which facilitate this. Perhaps if their English skills were better, your co-workers might feel more inclined to integrate more into the mainstream of American society. </p>
<p>As for the extra challenge to you in terms of communicating...while it is a struggle and challenge to communicate technically with those for whom English in not a first language (both my H and I do this professionally- so I completely understand)...it also requires you have more clarity of thought, precision in language, etc...which is ultimately a good thing. </p>
<p>I think in the next generation those who are first language English speakers who can communicate effectively in English with those who are not first language English speakers will find themselves in a very good position. All those kids learning English in China, etc, are never going to be first language English speakers. If English is to remain the common language of business and science, there will have to be learning on both ends.</p>
<p>Yes, I remember our exchanges.<br>
My H has a Ph.D. in Physics. He had a great advisor, so we never knew about graduate student slavery. A relative, who worked in the biomedical industry, told us about the cutthroat atmosphere in start-up companies, not only among companies but also within them, with bosses taking credit for the work of their underlings (except the underlings all had Ph.D.s). She decided to take early retirement.
Has your S fixed where he is applying?</p>