Rejections: Class of 2007

College Majors Musical Theater Major
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<p>MichaelNKat-</p>

<p>Your post was truly full of insight. and I do hope every student going through this process reads and absorbs it. Staying focused on the journey is so important.</p>

<p>Ericsmom -- I agree with you. Finding a non-audition safety program to love is key to relaxing, if only a bit, throughout the process. There are many routes to a career in theatre, and most do not involve BFA programs.</p>

<p>Good luck to all the students in the next two months. We MT parents are there for you in spirit.</p>

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<p>A great LAC school can provide a good education while having a strong theatre department for a major or for an outstanding EC...there are lots of ways into the box you see yourself in eventually...there is no prescription for the right way to your goal...Check out Hamilton, Whitman and Colorado College...they all offer as I describe above.</p>

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<p>My daughter was rejected from Ithaca today. She auditioned 11/11/06.</p>

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<p>So sorry- how is she doing? I am dreading this part of the process for my son (and his parents..) although we know it is inevitable.</p>

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<p>Last year when my son was rejected from the first school he'd auditioned for, it felt like a bucket of cold water had been thrown over us all. I can remember thinking that probably he wouldn't get in anywhere since he'd been academically in the range of that school and had a call back there...I had him apply to two more BA schools right away. The story has a happy ending and there were BFA acceptances later, but I sure know what your daughter and you are feeling now. It's part of the process. Give her a hug and hold on to the faith that Ithaca isn't the place she's meant to be.</p>

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<p>Just about a year ago, I wrote a piece about Numbers. (It's post #454 on the "Colleges for Musical Theater--Part 40" thread, if you want to see it in context and read responses.) I think it may be worth repeating here. I hope it provides some perspective on this issue of rejection.</p>

<p>NUMBERS</p>

<p>As we approach the week of the Unified Auditions, I've been musing about numbers. I've written about this before, but not in the detail I'm about to present. </p>

<p>It is true that the top schools take a very small percentage of applicants, in some cases less than 5%. That's especially true for women. Last year [in 2005], we auditioned 151 women for MT at Otterbein. We made initial offers to 4. That's 2.65%. One turned us down. We eventually accepted two from the waiting list. So that's 6 offers to 151 women, or 3.97%. Daunting. Scary, even.</p>

<p>But, as I've said before, the laws of physics dictate that even the most talented students can't enroll in two schools at the same time. Let's see what that means.</p>

<p>There are 30 schools for which collegeconfidential.com has created individual threads. Let's just deal with those, and not the remaining 92 on the Big List. From my reading, it appears that the average number of students accepted into those 30 MT programs is around 20. We're at the low end of the scale at 8; CAP 21 is at the high end with 60. That means that there are 30x20 or 600 spaces for MT majors at the 30 schools. 600 is a whole lot more than 8.</p>

<p>CCM, CMU and Tisch report that they audition between 700-1000 students. But that doesn't mean that they collectively see 3000 students. With cross-applications, it's probably more like 1500. My guess is that the 30 schools are seeing around 1800 students total for their 600 spaces. 600/1800 = 1/3. Not bad odds.</p>

<p>We have to modify this a bit for gender. Our statistics show that 67% of our MT applicants are women. Let's assume that's the pattern across the country. So of the 1800 students who are auditioning for MT at the 30 schools, my guess is that 2/3, or 1200, are women. They're auditioning for half the slots, or 300. 300/1200 = ?. That's 25%. Not quite as good as 33%, but much better than 3%.</p>

<p>If my analysis is anywhere close to being right, women have something close to a one-in-four chance of being admitted, eventually, to one of 30 schools. I say "eventually" because the top 10% of students are going to receive the first-round offers. But they cannot choose more than one school. So eventually 300 of the 1200 women will be placed in one of the 30 schools.</p>

<p>If you look at the Big List, and make similar assumptions about the entire group of 122 schools, they have 122x20 = 2440 spaces for MT students. I think that means that there are spaces for everyone who really wants to do Musical Theatre. I find that a hopeful thought as I approach the audition season. I hope you will too.</p>

<p>My very best wishes to everyone. See you soon.</p>

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<p>I think she is doing well. She was denied academically, which was a surprise. We thought she was within the range and she had an interview that went well. She has 5 more auditions to go. She already completed two others. Ithaca was her 3rd audition. She is auditioning for music theatre and some vocal performance. If you know of any safety schools in PA for voice or theatre please give me some input. She has an A average and scored 1720 on her SAT's. Very involved in arts, community service, girl scouts and track/cross country. She qualified to apply for the leadership scholarship thru Ithaca. So we really wonder what happened.</p>

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<p>rglick: Two safety schools in PA:</p>

<p>West Chester University, which I believe has a BFA in Musical Theater, but it's very low profile so competition for acceptance wouldn't be crazy like at places like Ithaca. </p>

<p>Muhlenburg College, which is a BA in theater, music or dance. They are a school that really encourage students to double major, I've heard of even triple majors!! They have very active musical theater opportunities on-campus and even a well-respected summer stock organization that students can particpate in. Muhlenburg is more difficult academically than West Chester, but I don't think your daughter would have a problem. </p>

<p>Muhlenberg is an optional audition for scholarship. West Chester, since it's a BFA is probably a mandatory audition. Hope that helps and good luck to your daughter!</p>

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<p>I want to point out that West Chester University is a BA in MT with no audition. A BA is "safer" than a BFA and a non audition school is not as competitive on the artistic front. </p>

<p>I cannot tell you what a "safety" school is for your daughter because the term "safety" or "sure bet" or "likely" is relative to EACH candidate. One person's reach can be another's safety. So, I can't name "safeties" across the board.</p>

<p>I don't quite know how you know the reason she didn't get into Ithaca is academic because I recall the BFA acceptance being an acceptance across the board, not part BFA, part academic. Maybe that is because my D got an acceptance letter. PERHAPS if one is not accepted to the BFA, one can be accepted to the college and you are saying she wasn't accepted to the college after not getting into the BFA. Perhaps that is what you mean. But it is not like you can be accepted to the BFA but not the college. Nobody would reveal that, I don't think. </p>

<p>Anyway, it is way too hard to ascertain her academic admissions qualifications based on what you shared. Schools use GPA, rigor of courseload, rank....and then when you give her SATs, it isn't the sum total of the three subtests but how she did on the CR and M in particular, which I can't tell from your post, what those were. The mid SAT range of accepted students at Ithaca is: CR 540-640, M 540-640, Combined 1090-1280 (just using CR and M, not WR.) Admissions involves more than just numbers, of course. </p>

<p>Muhlenberg is harder to get into academically than Ithaca. It could very well be a borderline reach/match for your daughter but I don't have nearly enough information to say with accuracy. However, Muhlenberg is an SAT optional school. It has a 45% acceptance rate so it is pretty selective.</p>

<p>For a BFA, perhaps your daughter might look at Point Park, Montclair State, Pace, Hartt, Marymount Manhattan, SUNY Fredonia, or UArts. It's late for Penn State but I'll put it out there. For a BM, Westminster Choir College. For a BA in MT non audition school, perhaps Susquehanna, Seton Hill, or Wilkes University. For a BA in MT by audition, how about Wagner or American. American is due tomorrow so that likely is out. Some other deadlines may also be past, such as Susquehanna's. Some of these are in PA and some are not far from PA, just like Ithaca.</p>

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<p>As far as schools in PA, Gettysburg College, now SAT optional, has a growing theatre program (theatre arts major - nonaudition BA) as well as the Sunderland Conservatory (they recently started auditioning some applicants for their music program). The school is trying to attract students in the arts to create a well-rounded school community, and a strong theatre applicant would have a hook (or tip), I think...
UArts, definitely is worth looking at for the BFA.</p>

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<p>I was just referring to schools with BA or BFA in MT, but if she is willing to apply to a school for theater where there are some MT opportunities but not a degree in MT per se....she could try Fairleigh Dickinson, Drew, Hofstra or Goucher. </p>

<p>Also, I forgot to mention that Manhattanville College has a BA in Music w/ concentration in MT by audition and a BA Theater with an optional audition. </p>

<p>Also, not far from PA is McDaniel College in MD with a BA in MT with no audition.</p>

<p>I'm mentioning "easier" (not easy) schools academically that may be back ups for your daughter, though I don't know enough about her to say for sure.</p>

<p>At this point, as well, you are somewhat at the mercy as to who is still accepting applications as it is past deadline for many schools. I know Fairleigh Dickinson is still taking apps.</p>

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<p>rglick- I think your daughter was only denied based on her BFA audition, because from what I hear, if you are auditioning for the theatre program there than the decision is sent in one letter. So if you are only interested in MT, and they decide not to take you, they just send you one letter. As far as I know, MT auditionees aren't given an academic acceptance AND artistic acceptance. If she were still interested in attending for another major she may have needed to specify that, or send a 2nd application.</p>

<p>I'm just saying this because from what I've read, Ithaca is actually NOT so academically competitive. College board states that 75% of applicants are admitted. So if she has an A average and good SAT scores, they probably would have accepted her if she weren't going for MT. So if she might still be interested in attending Ithaca for something else, I don't think she would be rejected. If that is the case, have her look into it and see if she can send another application</p>

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<p>Though the above poster mentions that it might have been necessecery to specify a secondary area of interest, which I did, I know for a fact you can be accepted to IC though you are denied for MT because it happened to me and my best friend and roomate. I got one letter that was along the lines of "Thanks for trying, but unfortunately we can't offer you a place in the mt program. However, based on your records we'd love to have you attend our school in another major within the school of humanities and sciences." There was a second page that had a list of the other majors I could choose from also included in this letter and a return envelope. But that really does not make sense your D was not accepted. While I am loving Ithaca, I admit it's not the most academically rigorous school out there and I know many, many people who didn't have nearly as impressive scores, etc. who attend the school. I ran into the same situation at Syracuse last year, though. I was sure that was a school that was a non-issue for academic acceptance and I was waitlisted. Perhaps, if you really feel it doesn't make sense, you could call the school and ask why she was not accepted.</p>

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<p>My 2 cents worth on Ithaca. If you do not specify a second area of interest, only one reject letter comes from MT/admissions, combined. Be glad you got one at this time of the year from fall auditions, because then you are not waiting and wondering. Last year, from doing the early Dec. audition, we knew people who got the reject letter mid-Jan. and others who didn't get it until mid-April. After the Dec. audition, my son did not hear a word from them until April 10. I suppose this means he was effectively deferred and later rejected, but he had long since already made his decision about where he wanted to go (among 5 other audition-based MT acceptances) and committed to Elon before he heard from Ithaca. </p>

<p>We also knew at least one person from a Nov. audition last year at Ithaca who got an acceptance at Ithaca in mid-April, hearing nothing from them for 5months. He had also already made his decision to go elsewhere. We thought it was not very good of Ithaca last year to send the first correspondence to people AFTER the common date of April 1. It seems that several people we knew had the same experience as my son. It made us wonder about their admissions policies.</p>

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<p>This policy seems so unwise to me. I would think that many would have been well into their decision process by April 10 with a May 1 committment deadline. I wonder if they had sent out any acceptances prior to April.</p>

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<p>I remember that last year, people were complaining that they had not heard from Ithaca and it was very late ... that they had already heard from all of their other schools. Does anyone know if this is par for the course/usual practice for IC? Sporti might know ... If it is, it seems that it would put the college at a disadvantage.</p>

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<p>It seemed different last year to me. The prior year, my D's year, she heard from Ithaca two weeks after her audition. Her audition was in late January and she heard Feb. 12 (I remember the date because it was her first acceptance and I was traveling back on a train from NYC from her NYU audition, though my D stayed in NYC for the night, and my husband called my D to tell her a letter arrived in the mail and she told him to open it and when she got the news, she called me on the train.). Last year, it seemed like they held onto many kids for a long time. I can understand waiting until all auditions are over (many schools do this), but I cannot understand waiting past April 1. Students must have all their cards on the table in order to reply by the National Reply Date of May 1. I think by April 1, if a school is not ready to take the student, they need to put them on a waitlist. It is like they are holding onto them waiting to see who is accepting the offer. That is how the waitlist is supposed to work, however. I don't know what was going on with Ithaca last year. That wasn't what it seemed to be like the previous year.</p>

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<p>I don't know about Ithaca, either, but the letters in mid-April were the very first piece of correspondence from Ithaca for many kids. I think that some people were accepted earlier than that last year, from reading on CC. We know one girl who now attends Ithaca who was offered the Acting program around this time last year from the Dec. MT audition date. She had marked that she would consider Acting or MT from the audition. Students have a choice of saying yes or no to that question when auditioning for MT.</p>

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<p>I was rejected from Ithaca MT and that was the only letter I recieved. I then called Ithaca admissions to ask if there was a chance that I would be accepted to the school as well, and they said no, saying that I hadn't indicated an alternate major. I said that I would have liked to be considered for the exploratory (undeclared) program and they accepted me with one look at my file, over the phone.</p>

<p>If you would LIKE to be considered for the exploratory program, definitely call IC admissions. Feel free to PM me if you have questions about it.</p>

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<p>Sporti2005. Thanks for the input. My D listed BA theatre BFA theatre and undeclared. I think she is just putting it behind her and moving on, still has 5 more auditions. It just seemed a little odd because she met with an admissions counselor and they did not seem to think she would have any problem being admitted academically. I would have at least thought she could have picked undeclared or another major. Maybe she will call, but I think she would rather be in a theatre/voice program elsewhere than undeclared.</p>