<p>You see, faith is the foundation of religion, meaning that if you listened to my reasoning you would not be a good devotee. That is why I think this whole discussion is pointless. And please read my posts CAREFULLY marite, I did not say that all physicists are atheists, I said that essentially everyone I KNOW could not care less about religion. I quite agree that there may be others that are religious due to their backgrounds, culture, etc. Human brain is a very flexible tool and can reconcile everything, even at a price of insanity, I'll agree with you here, what I am trying to convey is that these are two different idealogies and most people simply do not need both at the same time. It is like following communist and capitalist idealogy at the same time: possible but useless.
BTW, personally I am a metaphysical solipsist.</p>
<p>Zoosermom:</p>
<p>I'd be sad if your D did not send in the essay because it sounds like her faith is very much part of what and who she is. Any college that devalued this would not be the right place for her and it would be its loss. As long as the essay is good, I would have voted to send it in.</p>
<p>"As long as the essay is good, I would have voted to send it in."</p>
<p>I really do think it's a good essay, but it's my kid so who knows? I agree with you wholeheartedly, but what if she can't get accepted as a bio major with an essay touching on religion? She's not a CC superstar, just a normal kid, you know?</p>
<p>To marite: Except that you forget that it is not an institution that makes a decision but most of the times just one individual whose views may or may not reflect the general culture of that institution.</p>
<p>Current psychological research on peer evaluation in an academic setting shows that we subconciously divide people around us in two categories "like us" and "not like us". People " like us" will be always given the higher marks compared to people " not like us". Make what you want out of it.</p>
<p>Fizik:</p>
<p>I did read your post carefully, and I do acknowledge that you said that "most physicists you know don't care about religion. I am pointing out that I do know physicists who are actually not only believers but very devout. And by the way, my H is a physicist,too. </p>
<p>So what if Newton, Mendel, et all were men of their times? The fact is that their religious faith did not prevent them from doing careful science. Belief in God or gods does not have to color everything one does. And that may well be why this discussion bores you.</p>
<p>EDIT: Are you suggesting that adcoms do not care for diversity, that they will only admit "people like us?"</p>
<p>No I do not suggest that, but they will most likely (not on a rational level) give preference to people" like us".</p>
<p>That is why I am convinced that the essay shoud be about topics that everyone can relate to. With the images everyone can relate to: sunny day on a beach, scent of a just baked bread, etc :)</p>
<p>fizik: The only problem with that is that if you read hundreds of essays like that, your eyes will have glazed over by #10. Unless the kid is applying to a school where the only real criterion for the essay is showing basic literacy, the essay won't work if it's too anodyne.</p>
<br>
<p>'...I am somewhat confused by you guys equating "religious" with believing in god. Then, hindus who believe in multiple gods and buddhists who believe in no god are not religious ? ...></p>
<br>
<p>There is a difference between 'religious' and 'spiritual.' Most people use them interchangeably, but it is entirely possible to be spiritual without belonging to a religion - to have faith without the organized dogma.</p>
<p>I was not part of the original discussion, so I don't know what was meant by that comment, but, imo, of course people of ANY religion are religious!</p>
<p>And, people who have faith, any spiritual principles at all, but no religion, are still spiritual though not religious. (I happen to be in that category.)</p>
<p>"No I do not suggest that, but they will most likely (not on a rational level) give preference to people" like us"."</p>
<p>Actually, when it comes to the most competitive colleges [and these are the ones that give the most weight to essays], what they look for are smart, qualified people [keep in mind that most applicants to top colleges are smart and qualified] who'll create well rounded classes, including in terms of a diversity of perspectives and opinions.</p>
<p>Those admissions officers also want to learn about applicants interests and characters, so it would be a plus to stand out with a thoughtful essay about religion/spirituality that also illuminates one's character and interests.</p>
<p>Those admissions officers also are carefully selected to be open minded, not to be people who simply want to fill up a class with people like them.</p>
<p>
Nice try TD.</p>
<p>However, thinking outside the Old Greek's cave, you may have tried a metaphor or two that did not involve material implements working out their material issues (almost there with the “voltmeter”…but not). While it is true that to a hammer everything appears to be a nail, it is equally true that for pliers everything appears to be a nut; to a screwdriver, everything is still a screw—you almost nailed it, but I believe you screwed the nut on this one.</p>
<p>Had you the conviction to fight-off anti-religious zealots in the way you have the conviction to fight-off religious zealots (considering your ability to parry with a pen or keep a beat on a keyboard) I believe you would have caught that. Talk about mixed metaphors.</p>
<p>The c ock has crowed but once; for Pete’s sake let’s see if we you can get it right before the third c ock-a-doodle-doo. </p>
<p>As to “the faithful are dumb-as-a-rock” crowd:</p>
<p>I haven’t the slightest doubt that there are a number of wily admissions officers like Fitzik who believe that the only way someone like an Isaac Newton--or little Meghan and Ian, for that matter--could believe in god or the transcendent was that they lacked their particular genius and education. </p>
<p>50 years from now, instead of faith, the intellectuals among us will be weighing that silliest of all superstitions: ...LOVE.
But by then, I believe the fire will have gone out of the argument. There either is a transcendent, or there isn’t. It is a question that has an answer.</p>
<p>For those interested in the modern history of science and religion, might I suggest the book, “The measure of god: Our century-long struggle to reconcile religion and science” by, Larry Witham. I reviewed it here: <a href="http://www.dartreview.com/archives/2006/05/05/in_search_of_truth_science_and_religion.php%5B/url%5D">http://www.dartreview.com/archives/2006/05/05/in_search_of_truth_science_and_religion.php</a></p>
<p>Fizik, every tool has its limitations, including scientific reasoning...which is something bred in my bone, you'd be surprised how many problems I consider as as occurring in the context of a n-dimensional matrix. For problems of the human heart and human condition, faith can take over where scientific reasoning can go no further. As can poetry or other arts.</p>
<p>Spock was wrong, you know. (Both of them.) But the Vulcan one verges upon being a tragic figure.</p>
<p>^^^much better TD!</p>
<p>To wrap up my participation in this discussion and go back to the original purpose of the post: the very fact that this post produced 5 pages of discussion shows that it is not a simple matter to address in a college essay. If the daughter feels that it is absolutely necessary for her to do it this way, who we are to judge? It is her choice, and her price to pay. </p>
<p>To northstarmom: if I were an admission officer building up a diverse class, I would gladly admit a person with strong religious believes who plans to study philosophy, theology, etc. which would be not only entirely appropriate but desirable. Would I also be trying to find a perspective bio major with a strong religious believes just for the sake of diversity? I doubt it. After all the bio majors can just as happily argue with the philosophy majors, in fact it will make the discussion more interesting and substantial.</p>
<p>"Would I also be trying to find a perspective bio major with a strong religious believes just for the sake of diversity? I doubt it."</p>
<p>And what if said prospective bio major had the test scores, transcript and ECs to be pretty high in your applicant pool? Would an essay about religion cause you to slam the door in her face?</p>
<p>X-posted. FS, I believe that over time you've demonstrated far more familiarity with various nuts and their cases than I have and I must defer to your knowledge of same.</p>
<p>Anti-religious zealots--and I've known a few--seldom impinge upon my world the way that religious zealots do. Freedom of unbelief is just as protected as freedom of belief. I entered this discussion only because of the often repeated, and I believe erroneous, suggestion that faith and science are not necessarily mutually exclusive. </p>
<p>There are certainly those whose embrace of faith results in their personal suppression of of science and reason; in my mind, it's a rather juvenile approach to faith that leads to that. But <em>that</em> isn't the point of this discussion either.</p>
<p>Both faith and science cast illumination. (But in neither instance are dim bulbs useful to the purpose.) But nobody is under any obligation...as the line goes, "So, I'll sit in the dark and suffer." And the truly blind will not even understand that it is dark, though I think I know more people who are blind to science than blind to faith, even if they're atheists.</p>
<p>X-posted again. ZM, I do not think that such an essay would result in a slammed door. But there are no guarantees. Even saying "Hello" to someone can result in rejection, or so I was reminded while reading the funny papers the other day. 'tis better to live without fear, imo.</p>
<p>Just remembered an old quote that opens the door: "The heart hath its reasons of which Reason knoweth not."</p>
<p>I havent the slightest doubt that there are a number of wily admissions officers like Fitzik who believe that the only way someone like an Isaac Newton--or little Meghan and Ian, for that matter--could believe in god or the transcendent was that they lacked their particular genius and education.</p>
<p>You clearly did not understand my point. Religion is a matter of your culture and upbringing mostly. Kepler was born into a religious society and as a consequence of that had strong religious feelings. He was an exceptionally educated man.
On the other hand, Galileo was clearly less so (religion-wise), since he obviously spent quite a lot of time thinking about physics while in church. :)
I happened to be born into totally nonreligious society and as a consequence of my upbringing is not religious at all. Now try to tell me that I am a lesser human because for me love and empathy exist outside of a religious framework. Religion is a vessel to propogate common morals, feelings, and attitudes. Communistic ideology, for example, is another. It is hard to imagine something as atheistic as communistic ideology, but, surprize surprize, the morals and attitudes are exactly the same!</p>
<p>Given top grades etc, no. For an average student, yes.</p>