<p>^ Well it's a Christian organization..shouldn't it be just for Christians..?</p>
<p>I'm sure missionaries don't invite buddhists on their trips..lol.</p>
<p>^yes, but not all Christians are evangelical Christians.</p>
<p>I consider myself Christian, but certainly not evangelical.</p>
<p>Are there any atheists organizations that are bent on spreading atheism aka love, peace, harmony, etc.?</p>
<p>cornell's student body is only slightly twice more than that of harvard's. cornell taking over half of the entire conference of eight private institutions is far more than simply the fact that cornell has more students than other ivy league schools. </p>
<p>i'm sorry but i know that in the christian groups at cornell, there is no distinction between evangelical christian and a christian. 'evangelical christian' is a political term and there is no such distinction in christian ideology. you are either a christian, or you're not</p>
<p>^^
Evangelicals are a distinct group that separate themselves from Catholics, Christian Mystics, Lutherans, etc... While they are not a specific denomination and draw from a few denominations, they do refer to themselves as "Christians" in a way that suggests they are the only true Christians. They dominate the radio and television airwaves (hardly ever hear progressive Christian radio or Catholic radio) and promote a version of Christianity that gives little acknowledgement to the value of other denominations or political perspectives, such as the moral responsibility to care for the poor, end frivolous wars, and protect the environment (progressive values) rather than focus on homosexuality and abortion and support military action (conservative values). </p>
<p>More on topic - I think you hit the nail on the head, elgguj, of why you perceive campus the way you do. I never knew my political affiliation or even thought about it until I graduated Cornell and moved to Washington, DC, where I was immediately forced to define my political affiliation (it's pretty much an ice-breaker in that town). I'm sure in history and government classes, that has been forced upon you far earlier than it was me. I found people in DC from all different schools and parts of the country equally intolerant - but only because their views were pushed into such a forum.</p>
<p>Mrsopresdient - if you are going to make such sweeping and, from my experience, misinformed accusations, you should at least explain the basis of your belief that people are so intolerant. I took classes across 3 different schools and never encountered such close-mindedness.</p>
<p>applejack...you kinda just made my point in your last senetence about evangelical christians. why should they have to support liberal values? would you ask the ACLU to be more open-minded about conservative ideals? would that even be fair to ask of a group like that?</p>
<p>i dont see why, in your estimation, its perfectly fine for groups to focus <em>exclusively</em> on the values you listed about caring for the poor, and ending war, and protecting the environment, but its not ok for the evangelicals to have their own platform that does not include any of those issues. That's quite a double standard....</p>
<p>
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'evangelical christian' is a political term and there is no such distinction in christian ideology.
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</p>
<p>Right. Ask any Catholic whether or not they think there is no distinction between the beliefs of the Pope and the evangelical mega-church that is being built in exurbs across the country. </p>
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Would you ask the ACLU to be more open-minded about conservative ideals?
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</p>
<p>Considering the ACLU has defended the Klan, I think they're pretty open-minded.</p>
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That's quite a double standard...
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</p>
<p>No. The double standard is that evangelicals loudly and vocally claim to follow in the path of the teachings of Jesus, but by any elementary reading of the Bible, there are a lot of "Christian values" they are completely forgetting about. You could start with the values Applejack mentioned. </p>
<p>
[quote]
Are there any atheists organizations that are bent on spreading atheism aka love, peace, harmony, etc.?
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</p>
<p>I know that there was both an atheist and secular humanist club when I was a student three years ago. Not sure what's on campus these days. Tons of student clubs get started and disbanded every year. But if you go off-campus, Ithaca is pretty much the East Coast mecca for hippydom; the Grass Roots Festival every summer in Trumansburg is a must.</p>
<p>I don't know...I've come across many different "varieties" of Christians in my life and in my experience I've come to believe there are Christians and Evangelical Christians.</p>
<p>However...I do not wish to belabor the point since we all believe in the same principle and in the end, that's all that matters.</p>
<p>@ Godsend:</p>
<p>See my post on page 1.</p>
<p>Elgguj - I'm not saying anyone should support progressive values. I was simply pointing out that there is a group of Evangelicals that, over the past 30 years, has emerged to stake claim to the word "Christian" as if it is their own. I was simply pointing out that there are ways to be moral and Christlike without aligning with a political agenda. </p>
<p>I do not know any Catholics, for example, who would assert that evangelicals are not Christians. I have encountered many Evangelicals. however, who have stated about Catholics, "Well, they're not REALLY Christians". Meaning - they don't completely agree with me so they cannot possibly know the true Christ.</p>
<p>If you get beyond the rhetoric, you'll see that the ACLU is actually one of the most conservative organizations around. They simply ensure all people have equal rights guaranteed under law. That may be threatening to those who disagree with, for example, homosexuals asserting those rights. But when they defended Rush Limbaugh and the KKK, they proved the universal nature of their mission. </p>
<p>anyway - off topic.</p>
<p>agreed ACLU might not be the best example, although they are traditionally thought of as very liberal in nature. so ok point taken...but my point is, why should a conservative group like the Evangelical Christians have to accept progressive values when you would NEVER EVER suggest that a liberal group have to accept conservative values. That is a double standard.</p>
<p>anyway, im not arguing about religion... But I dont see how you can say you were suggesting that christians should be "moral and Christlike" without following a political agenda when you listed a political agenda you think they should follow. the "progressive values" you listed are very political in nature right now.</p>
<p>Anywayyy...my point in bringing up the liberal bias wasnt to start a conversation about religion or bash anyone's politics or w/e. I'm just saying that I don't think Cornell is tolerant of accepting that conservatism may have its good points. If Cornellians do listen to a conservative slant, they do so only long enough to condescend you and tell you you're a provincial nobody who has no idea what they're talking about. So....I was just putting that out there bc I felt it connected to the OP's question about the acceptance of religious groups on campus. (my point was, and I think the posts show this...that religious groups are not really welcomed unless they have liberal ideas to share. If they do happen to be pro-life and opposed to gay marriage...nobody wants to hear from them.)</p>
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when you would NEVER EVER suggest that a liberal group have to accept conservative values.
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</p>
<p>But the whole problem is that present-day conservatives don't really have any values. They have blind ideology that often stands against itself. They are pro-life when it comes to abortion, but pro-death when it comes to capital punishment and the Iraq war. And they are against homosexuality and marital infidelity, except of course, when people like Newt Gingrich has extra-marital affairs or when bigoted senators from Idaho solicit gay sex in airports. And they are all for free markets, except, of course, when Paulson and Bernake need to step in and bail out Bear Stearns using taxpayers money.</p>
<p>I could go on, but you get the point. Why would any so-called "conservative" vote or support the current Republican party? It's beyond me. And that's why a lot of well-meaning Cornell students start questioning a conservative-leaning student when they encounter one... because their positions defy logic, sense, and rationality. </p>
<p>And you are obviously not looking far enough on Cornell's campus if you think everybody at Cornell is liberal. I think good portions of the fraternity system swing to the conservative side of things, as does the engineering school, and where do you place all of the pro-life campaigners and the editors of the Cornell Review? When I was at Cornell, I lived in a freshman dorm with a born-again Christian who wore an "I Love Jesus Hat", dated a girl whose father was on Opus Dei, and lived with two engineers who never saw a tax they liked. </p>
<p>A present day Eisenhower Republican I can have well-mannered discussion with, and I think most liberal Cornell students would too. But anybody who supports any aspect of the current administration really need to sit down and follow what exactly has been done over the last eight years from an economic, foreign affairs, environmental, and socio-cultural perspective. When you take a step back, it's remarkable how much damage and hypocrisy this country has incurred at the behest of Bush.</p>
<p>And if you followed liberal circles, you will actually see there is a lot of talk in certain circles about adopting more libertarian or conservative policy ideas. For instance, while the candidates have been supporting a cap and trade system to limit carbon emissions, a lot of liberals want a more conservative-minded approach without a lot of government beuracracy: a carbon tax. A lot of prominent conservatives support this idea, like Greg Mankiw who was a former economic adviser to George Bush.</p>
<p>By the way, if you end up transferring to Georgetown, it will just end up being more homogeneously liberal than Cornell. But at least there will be a Starbucks closer to your dorm!</p>
<p>^ Cayuga, I agree.</p>
<p>I've always been ashamed of seeing fellow Christians - we are supposed to be a community of acceptance and love - doing the most hateful things.</p>
<p>"God hates fags!"
"Gods a republican!"</p>
<p>It's awful...and beyond me. Now, about the republican thing, this is my 2 cents:</p>
<p>Republicans need a platform. They have always been supported by the rich upperclass, while democrats were for the poor working class. Things have changed - the working class stayed democrat, but the rich realized how selfish it was to be republican. Rich usually means educated...education leads to wanting progress...and progress cannot happen with republicans. The result? Republicans have lost their base.</p>
<p>So...how do they somehow steal the democrat base? A wedge issue - God, gays, abortion. In 2000, that's how Bush beat Gore. That's how Bush beat Kerry. But both times, he did nothing. He didn't outlaw gay marriage or abortion. Why? Because the moment he does..it's no longer an issue. And all those southern people voting for republicans ONLY because of that, would go back to being democrat. In other words...the republican party would die.</p>
<p>Sooo...they keep it an issue...but will never change it. Simple really.</p>
<p>Why does a Christian vote for a party that preaches hate? Keeps the poor poor? Loves war?</p>
<p>I don't know...I'm a Christian and a democrat.</p>
<p>Again Elgguj - I was not saying one needs to follow a progressive political agenda to be moral and Christlike. I was saying that one CAN be moral and Christlike and still follow a progressive political agenda - just as one can be conservative and be moral and Christlike. Over the past 8 years (at least until 2006 with the collapse of the religious right as a political power) we were inundated with public rhetoric that said conservatives are moral and righteous and liberals are heathens, selfish, and immoral. One cannot deny this attitude has permeated Evangelical circles. I'm just pointing out its inherent ignorance since liberal values are rooted in ensuring the well being of least amongst us - be they human, plant, or animal. Get it? Progressives and conservatives can both reflect different aspects of Christ's teachings. That's all I'm saying. </p>
<p>In reality, I believe both sides hold aspects of a deeper, transcendent spiritual wisdom - conservatives focus on the individual/family with little regard to impact beyond that microcosm. Progressives focus on the larger global society with little regard to the underlying family structure in the process.</p>
<p>I'm neither a liberal nor a conservative. I am a radical centrist who has witnessed an extreme imbalance stemming from criminal abuse of power and morality over the past eight years. That said - being a college campus, I agree that there are factions of Cornell very intolerant to conservative ideology. That's what young people are for, though. I went to a presentation organized by a labor advocacy group. After the presentation they started chanting "Bosses die! Bosses die!" </p>
<p>I was appalled. I do not think such ignorant blood lust transcends campus as a whole, though.</p>
<p>cayuga....im done. "present-day conservatives don't really have any values." done. my point has been proven without me saying another word. that's exactly the attitude I've been trying to describe in all these posts...nicely summed up in a sentence. thank you for that. oh and i also like soccer guys quote "how selfish it is to be republican." It's nice to see ivy leaguers able to appreciate value in both sides of an issue. </p>
<p>and fair enough applejack...i don't think its all of the student body. but I do think it has a strong presence on campus...like the posts above yours. </p>
<p>and cayuga, yes I am transferring to georgetown. and no, georgetown is not as liberal as cornell (that's a dumb assertion...think about the school's affiliation). for instance, i don't think georgetown will be funding a c*nt festival on campus.</p>
<p>oh, and i'm not a die-hard conservative either. I always considered myself a moderate until I saw what college liberalism entails...then I felt it would be more appropriate to shift my definition further right. probably when I rejoin the real world, i'll redefine myself as a moderate. for what it's worth, im a registered independent. so my opinion about the political bias on campus is not as biased as you think</p>
<p>What, exactly, has been proven by my sentence? That a self-professed FDR Democrat finds a lot of hypocrisy in modern day conservatism? </p>
<p>But you have failed to demonstrate how every student on Cornell's campus is blindingly, radically liberal (which is hard to do, considering you yourself agreed that a broad spectrum of the campus is apolitical and libertarian leaning). And you have failed to prove that Cornell somehow doesn't support or allow speech from conservative minded student groups, which is really an odd notion, considering how prolific the Cornell Review and their alums are, and the fact that there are a couple of conservative columnists in the Daily Sun every semester. </p>
<p>Was Mike Huckabee booed out of Bailey Hall when he spoke on campus this semester? I don't think so. I've provided numerous anecdotes from my own experience that Cornell isn't as suffocatingly liberal as you make it out to be. So has Applejack. In rejoinder, all you can provide is that you once got into a heated political argument after class with some fellow students and that Cornell supports female sexuality. Quite frankly, this isn't a surprise to anyone. This is college, after all.</p>
<p>All I was trying to explain to you is why -- in this day in age -- so many students may get in such an uproar when you profess to support the current Republican party.</p>
<p>You may be surprised by this, but I tend to agree with some "conservative values" on a lot of issues. I find a lot of contemporary liberal policy towards welfare and families hopelessly backwards, and on most days, I find myself swinging to a moderately pro-life side of the conversation. But that still doesn't mean that I think the current Republican administration isn't the worst thing for Western Civilization since the rise of the Third Reich, and it doesn't mean I won't argue with you until I am blue in the face about the need for less income inequality, higher marginal tax rates, and sound labor and environmental policy.</p>
<p>And, yes, Georgetown is known for being very liberal. I lived on Georgetown's campus for a summer, with Georgetown students, and found the student body to suffocatingly rich and elite liberal of the persuasion I can't really tolerate. Cornell was at least big and diverse enough that everybody on campus found their niche in good time. I'm Catholic, and when I was looking at colleges, I seriously considered Notre Dame. The general sense was that true practicing Catholics didn't attend Georgetown because the school had gotten incredibly secular in feel over the last couple of decades. It's still a Jesuit school, of course, but I think a majority of students aren't Catholic, and 15 percent of students are Jewish.</p>
<p>And what's this? The Vagina Monologues on Georgetown's campus?</p>
<p>PERFORMANCES</a> AT GEORGETOWN</p>
<p>Best of luck at Georgetown. Unfortunately the D.C. area doesn't feature any Gimmee! coffee.</p>
<p>Much like the ACLU, I think if you scratch beneath the surface of radical conservative rhetoric (i.e. talk radio) you might find the "C-word" Festival to be about promoting equality under the law and in society, which is certainly not liberal.</p>
<p>I'm not sure why such efforts to liberate people from sexual repression or economic repression or political oppression are always called liberal. Seems more like common sense.</p>
<p>Best to you at Georgetown.</p>
<p>Haha @ the Vagina Monologues comment..</p>
<p>cayuga, i dont have to "prove" that every person on campus is liberal (they arent). but I'm telling you thats the overwhelming majority on campus...and I don't find it to be a very open-minded majority (as for the review and the college republicans, those two groups have really weak membership...i've been to their meetings).</p>
<p>and no huckabee wasn't booed out of bailey, but he purposely pandered to the audience about how he knew cornell was really far left. he pretty much apologized for being conservative. Ashcroft....however......was a different story.</p>
<p>and, although this has nothing to do with anything, how in the word does a c*nt festival promote "equality under the law"? lol.</p>
<p>soccer guy---</p>
<p>Are you really saying that one can't be a republican and be pro-civil rights? Saying you "detest republicans" isn't exactly a tolerant statement.</p>
<p>Also, neither the republican party nor the democratic party is centered only around things like gay marriage and gun control. Abortion, homosexual marriage, and gun control won't be resolved quickly because the entire country is divided over it. Its not some simple ploy to keep what you think is the platform. Ever heard of the whole..fight between state and federal governmental rights? A conservative view of the constitution? Or does that even come in to your argument between republicans or democrats?</p>
<p>apart from that....</p>
<p>I have a lot of conservative and liberal friends, and none of us fight about politics. Cornell is definitely a liberal school, but people are not mean about it unless you are really loud about an uninformed view. If you say something ridiculous, sure, someone will say something, but otherwise, differing views are fine.</p>