<p>Eighty-four percent of students taking the math placement exam at Nashua Community College over the past two years couldnt pass it, according to data provided by the college. Students who cant pass the placement exam have to take a remedial math course. Remedial courses, also called developmental courses, cost students and colleges money and time, but the credits dont count toward graduation.</p>
<p>While most students 60 percent at Nashua Community College tested into the higher-level remedial course reviewing basic algebra concepts, 10 percent tested into the lower-level remedial math course, relearning arithmetic such as fractions, decimals, multiplication, division and basic geometry. </p>
<p>Fourteen percent of students tested below the cutoff score for any of the community colleges remedial math courses. </p>
<p>It shouldn't be any surprise that it's expensive trying to fix K-12 problems in a college setting and that this is on contribution to higher costs in higher education.</p>
<p>BTW, I had a look at this community college when our kids were a lot younger and determined that the educational quality level was insufficient. The quality level could have been a response to the quality of the students there. I have a friend with a wife that works there and she is dismayed by the capabilities of the students (she's an asian immigrant).</p>
<p>Unfortunately, apparently some schools (of which I know one) are getting around this expense and hassle by eliminating their math core requirements, so less students have to worry about being placed in the remedial courses :(</p>
<p>Wait, so 14% of students are not ready to learn multiplication? Did they count wrong? Were they unable to recognize numbers (IE 10 is “ten”)? How is someone unprepared to tackle multiplication?</p>
<p>I teach third grade and it sounds like most of my students should go to New Hampshire in a few years. It is amazing that simple math is a struggle, but not only that. It is amazing how they don’t care to learn. They simply don’t care. It’s not like they have disabiliities. They don’t care and they don’t try.</p>
<p>It’s not just community colleges that are seeing the rise in remedial math and English. I have talked to professors at California State Universities that remark about the number of incoming college students that need remedial math or English.</p>
<p>I scratch my head a bit and try to figure out why students are admitted into a 4 year college and need a remedial class.</p>
<p>I expect why students need a remedial class is they are admitted with Gpa, SAT scores & essays. Placement into math/English courses often require testing more relevant thanSATs.</p>
<p>This comes as no surprise, after hearing some of the math teachers in my school talk about the abilities of their students. One is currently teaching his high school geometry class multiplication every day. The chemistry teacher is constantly complaining that his students cannot convert units, because they do not know fractions. Physics is no longer offered, because the kids cannot do the math. </p>
<p>Limabeans is correct. Many students just do not care if they know their math facts. They also do not care if they can read or write. Unfortunately, in many cases, it is because their parents do not place a priority on learning.</p>
<p>It doesn’t bother me that a community college would have many students who need remedial work. This is part of what community colleges are for. One of the segments of the population they serve is students who did not do well in high school. That’s what open admissions is all about.</p>
<p>But there are problems with students’ understanding of math at all levels of higher education.</p>
<p>My daughter is a senior at a top-20 university. For four semesters, she worked as an undergraduate TA for an introductory finance course. She says that some of the students who would come to her for help during office hours were having trouble with finance because they didn’t have a firm grasp of basic high school algebra. Yet, in order to have been admitted to this university, they almost certainly would have scored in at least the 600s on the math SAT.</p>
<p>Too many kids fall by the wayside while learning math. At some point during K-12, they have difficulty understanding some important concepts or techniques, and from that point on, they struggle, never fully grasping what they’re doing. They become skillful fakers, who manage to pass math courses, and courses in other subjects that require math, without really knowing what they’re doing. And the system does nothing to detect and correct these problems. </p>
<p>I think there’s a need for some type of individualized assessment – perhaps at several points during a student’s school years – to detect situations where a student is struggling in math because of a poor grasp of material taught in previous grades. And when problems of this sort are found, there should be one-on-one tutoring to correct them.</p>
<p>I too have seen those kids who don’t seem to care, and it’s pretty scary. Do we know, scientifically, what the differences between those kids and the high-achieving kids actually are? I mean, what is the cause of this apathy and lack of learning?</p>
<p>It’s odd. The fact they showed up on the steps of a community college indicates they want some post-secondary learning. Does this mean they were unaware of the consequences of their prior failure to acquire math skills, or a belated regret for same? Or perhaps unawareness that they LACKED math skills…</p>
<p>I think that often, “I don’t care” and “This is boring” are the ways kids respond when what’s really happening is “I don’t understand this” and “I’m totally lost.”</p>
<p>Marian, you could be right. That is what happened to me. I scored high on an algebra aptitude test when I was in 8th grade (this was many, many years ago). However, my freshman year in high school I never understood any of what I was taught in algebra class. The only other math classes I ever took were statistics classes (in college) and I never understood any of what I was taught in those classes either.</p>
<p>So, I am sure I would have to take the community college remedial math classes, were I to enroll there.</p>
<p>I got lost in math, too, in the final year before calculus. I got an A in that class, but for the first time, I didn’t completely understand what was going on. Then, when I took calculus, I was truly lost. I managed to get Bs in both differential and integral calculus, but I knew that I had no idea what I was doing, and that I would be in desperate trouble if I ever had to take a course that actually required a knowledge of calculus. Fortunately, I was a biology major, and it was possible to avoid the need to use calculus by making judicious course selections.</p>
<p>I think that what happened to me at a fairly late stage of the game happens to other kids much earlier. </p>
<p>And certainly, the people who admitted me to college would not have known that I had a problem. I got a 740 on the math SAT, and I was the valedictorian of my high school.</p>
<p>What’s sad here is that kids – including the Marian of almost 40 years ago – don’t see any way to get out of this sort of situation except by avoiding math. I would have liked to have taken some advanced chemistry courses, including physical chemistry, and a serious statistics course (the kind that requires calculus), but I knew that I couldn’t take those courses because I couldn’t handle the math. And I didn’t know of any way to get beyond my math difficulty.</p>
<p>If I couldn’t deal with this situation well as a college student, can you imagine what happens to the eighth grader who hits the wall during Algebra 1 or the elementary school student who becomes confused when the class starts to work with fractions?</p>
<p>I agree Marian. It’s so important to build a strong foundation in any subject and in my experience the biggest culprit to this in the younger grades is the constant tinkering and changing of the math curriculum. I would think if the parent isn’t aware of what is going on with their child in the classroom-both with how they are performing but more importantly-what they are being taught-the child could easily fall through the cracks.</p>
<p>Our district teaches what they call “Investigations”. It’s no wonder in my opinion with that background kids are struggling. I drilled those tables into the kids and calculator use was not allowed at home while they were learning these basic concepts. I see the same thing now with my 8th grader-she gets wonderful grades in Algebra 1 but she doesn’t understand the material-which is why my son, our live-in tutor-has been working with her and told her if she doesn’t get this now she will struggle later-he doesn’t care what the grade is she is getting now. </p>
<p>Same thing with language too-not enough attention to the boring basics-but that’s for another thread.</p>
<p>I think that if you are not using math regularly - you forget it. Maybe not some of the calculator-type basics, but fractions and algebra for sure. I’m an accountant, but please don’t ask me to calculate fractions without giving me a sec to look up how to do it :-)</p>
<p>I urged my kids to take Spanish because it was the language that I had studied in school, and I bought Spanish grammar books and explicitly taught them the grammar points that the teachers neglected.</p>
<p>IMHO, we need math told more often, earlier. Problem is, imho, typical union contracts dont accomodate that. Our school district is not allowed to pay math teachers more than others. That must change. We need more math in elementary school. Right now, many elementary school teachers are math adverse.</p>
<p>Marian, I agree and thats why I had my Daughter take Spanish. </p>
<p>I am all for women’s rights, but when laws were changed that required equal treatment for women (not that it is all the way there, but still big changes from pre 71), teacher quality went downhill. Of course some are great, but no uniformly, and Ithink math got hit the hardest.</p>
<p>Pepper–
My son was also born with a wonderful facility for math. He helped his classmates in math all through school, and the teachers encouraged him to do it. I recently had a parent friend tell me her child wouldn’t have made it through calculus without my son. My point is, I do think a lot of kids sit through math classes without getting the material. </p>
<p>What should the teachers do if some of the students are not getting it?</p>
<p>He sounds a lot like my son-it’s a real gift to have that aptitude and the ability to teach it and help others, isn’t it? I am, like you, more proud of him when I get the same feedback about how he helped other students than what his SAT scores were!</p>
<p>I know at his HS they offer free tutoring. I think though the kids are already in big trouble before they hit HS. One thing they should do is let the teachers teach basic math skills. I also would like to see the NHS tutors be able to go volunteer at the MS and elementary schools. My nephew was struggling so much in math from the early grades and he felt stupid. He is far from stupid but not every kid picks up things at the same rate. My sister, at my urging, after trying to work with him herself for a couple of years, got him a private tutor. The change has been remarkable. He “gets it” now. However, if he didn’t have that opportunity where would he be? Another smart young man who can’t do the work because he was not taught correctly at the age where it could make a difference.</p>
<p>If I were a teacher I would try and get the student extra help-but that is easier said than done.</p>
<p>I think also grading has alot to do with it. My sister was shocked when my niece had to take both remedial math and english when getting in her 4 year university. She was like, but D always got A’s in both Math & English in high school?</p>