Increase completion rates of students earning community college credentials (certificates and associate degrees) by 50% by 2020, while preserving access, enhancing quality, and eradicating attainment gaps associated with income, race, ethnicity, and gender.</p>
<ol>
<li>Dramatically improve college readiness: By 2020, reduce by half the number of students entering college unprepared for rigorous college-level work, and double the number of students who complete developmental education programs and progress to successful completion of related freshman-level courses.
[/quote]
</li>
</ol>
<p>Those are admirable goals, but within the next eight years? C'mon!</p>
<p>Community colleges offer second chances to students who did not do well in high school. Some of these students will discover, after they get to community college, that college is not a good choice for them. I don’t think that the college should be penalized if such students drop out without completing a credential.</p>
<p>Also, there will always be students who did poorly in high school and are not prepared for rigorous college-level work. If we want to reduce the number of such students who enter college, I think we have to be careful about how. One way to achieve the goal would be to discourage these students from giving community college a try, but I don’t think that would be good policy.</p>
<p>I think that ccs need to have some specific goals to shore up their game. They should not be just for students who did poorly in high school, but for those who cannot afford to go away to school for any number of reasons. They are in place and ready to be turned into gateways to a college education for everyone. </p>
<p>For those students who are not prepared to start college level work, an intense one year commitment should be required, where the focus would be to get such a student ready. Year round and a second year as well, if needed would be the way I would design it. Can’t complete it? Then can’t move up the academic ladder and no more government funding. A major problem I have seen with ccs is that there are folks going at the government teat, drinking it dry, making little or no progress. Some of this is being addressed with the 6 year limits on PELLS, but more direction and order can be put into the system.</p>
<p>There should also be a good solid college track available for those who need to stay local for financial or other reasons. That track should be set up so that those who get through it are prepared to transfer to a college that can confer a bachelors degree.</p>
<p>The funding can come for government money going to private schools and room/board for the first two years. I think it is more important for us to secure this base and we can do this with funds already in the system.</p>
<p>The “completion rate” stat is misleading when it comes to community college. The goal of many cc students is not an associates degree or certificate. Some students attend cc for only one year, then transfer to a 4 year, due to not getting into the desired school initially, missing app deadlines, family circumstances, financial reasons, etc. </p>
<p>Other students take courses at cc that they will need at their 4 year college, which may not allign with the cc associate’s degree requirement. (For example, if the 4 year college to which the student desires to transfer requires 8 hours of science and no math, and the cc requires 4 hours of science and 3 hours of math for an associate’s degree, the student will likely take the 8 hours of science and no math and skip the associate’s degree.)</p>
<p>I think we put WAY too much stress on college completion, at both the two and four year levels. The data indicate that, at least as regards employment income, there is a greater percentage difference between those who complete some college and those with none than between those who have some and those who graduate.</p>
<p>The median community college student in the U.S. is 29.8 years old. Many aren’t prepared for college work, not because of inadequate high school preparation, but the intervening 7-15 years between high school completion and college. Think soldiers also dealing with PTSD and traumatic brain injuries.</p>
What about the student who is attending part time and paying for it themselves? Would they be subject to this sort of requirement in your scheme as well?</p>
<p>missypie-> The article is specifically about “students who enter community colleges with the goal of earning a degree or certificate” and that fewer than half “have attained that goal, transferred to a baccalaureate institution, or are still enrolled 6 years later.”</p>
<p>I’d also point out that to the extent this is a real problem (agreeing with Marian that it may not be), I think at many less-selective four-year universities, you could say pretty much the same thing.</p>
<h1>2 is the real key. Our state publishes a detailed list showing remediation rates (% of students required to take remedial math, writing, or reading) for every public college in the state, and then another table showing the results for every public high school in the state. 52.8% of community college students who were recent h.s. graduates (not G.E.D.) needed one or more remedial courses, and the pass rate for those remedial courses was about 62%.</h1>
<p>Fixing problem #2 will go a long way towards fixing problem #1 and meeting the overall goal. Getting K-12 schools, parents and communities to understand and choose to work on these issues seems to be the real challenge. Too many students with “B” grades hit college only to find out that their first stop is remedial coursework.</p>
<p>I take a few classes at CC each year, as do some of my friends. I would hate for our mere attendance without intention to get a degree to damage the funding of the school. I personally would love to see the budgets and resources in CC increase, since it is obvious that these CCs serve a large population of the state as opposed to giving out merit scholarships to OOS students who will leave the state rather than make positive contributions to our economy.
If students could be properly identified as degree-seeking, full-time, career-seeking, remedial, etc we could set more realistic goals.</p>
<p>“Some college” also includes those who study at a community college for a certificate or other plan of study that is not an associates degree or preparation to transfer to complete a bachelor’s degree. It does not necessarily mean drop out of flunk out.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Many older students are just taking courses for personal interest (e.g. learning a foreign language).</p>
<p>CCs are a great resource and it would be bad if they are set up with unrealistic goals. Our D attended CC with the goal of transferring (she applied after 1 semester of CC). She did transfer and will get her degree from her dream U. I know others who have gotten their certifications. taken coursework, and done other things at CCs, to supplement their courses and general education. If CCs are forced to meet unrealistic goals, I’m afraid that there will be much less flexibility for folks like MizzBee and others who enjoy the CCs as they are now. That would be a great loss.</p>
<p>^ Yes, I agree - and I think the point made by Marian upthread needs emphasizing.</p>
<p>Many high school graduates are not ready for college - for various reasons. Giving marginal students the opportunity to attend a community college lets them find out whether they are indeed ready for college work, at far less cost than going to a residential college (even a moderate cost public one) and failing there. It also gives the student whose academic preparation is lacking, for whatever reason, a chance to make up those deficiencies, and low cost, and get prepared for a successful bachelors’ degree quest.</p>
<p>That’s not to say that the ONLY population served by community colleges is the marginal or unprepared student. They are an excellent resource for well-prepared students who need to, or simply want to, complete the lower-division part of their college requirements at a low cost.</p>
<p>Some programs are ONLY offered at CCs, like automotive repair, body shop, paralegal programs, respiratory therapy programs, medical technicians, emergency medical technicians, and others. These are rigorous and involve hands-on training as well as course-work and fill important niches.</p>
<p>It also gives folks who get GEDs options to get coursework under their belt before applying to & entering college. This is tremendous for kids who are trying to save and figure out what they want.</p>
<p>Community colleges do many things. We have a large on that has classes for kids to the elderly. Has non credit fun courses, vocation courses remedial courses, certificate courses, and courses that are on track to transfer to a 4 year school. It is this last category, I’d like to see strengthened so that any and everyone has the opportunity to work towards a college degree is s/he so desires. I agree with Mini, that providing an end is not imperative, but I think that pathway should be strong and clear, with a strong prep component for those not ready to go on it.</p>
<p>As much as I complain about political happenings in my state (making 3-years in hs the desired norm), I applaud the efforts that have been made to set out artuculation requirements for public and private schools in our state. I am saddened to hear of students that meet with advisors only to have those credits be wasted when seeking to transfer. That has, supposedly, meant that the standards have increased for those courses.
At so many other states, CC to public university is a great path (like my beloved CA). That is something that could be improved for many other schools. I would also like to see better options for adults attempting to finish their degrees. Our state has started to embrace the idea of online college completion, but it will only be successful if the top schools embrace it rather than relying on expensive for-profit privates such as Phoenix.</p>
<p>There’s a new program around here for the population who is entering CC with the goal of transfering to one of the many public and private U’s in our state. The students meet with an advisor and make a plan and they go through the core as a cohort. It is very effective.</p>
<p>No classes with us old people or cert. people or high school dual enrollers or remediation cases, ALL of whom also belong at the CC, given the mission.</p>
<p>But, the state is making a good effort with this, imho, and we are in a county with a good diversity from 1%ers to those who need pell even for CC. So, I like this a LOT.</p>
<p>I also volunteer there to work on remediation for those from less endowed school districts and to get them up to par on the writing ASAP. These are smart kids and I’m grateful to have a chance to help out and that they have a place to go they can afford. I happen to think it is one of the best uses of my tax dollars I have seen, lately.</p>
<p>Speaking of unrealistic goals annasdad, aren’t you pushing a school to your D that doesn’t offer her major? How does SHE reach her goals with that?</p>
<p>Community colleges serve a number of purposes and I believe they should be split into two parts: a college degree track for prepared kids and a remedial program for those who didn’t learn writing, critical thinking or analytical skills in hs. This would be pre-college. A 3rd opportunity would be the sort of continuing ed (incl trade or biz-related certification) that some posters mention.<br>
(Sorry, CC messed me up before editing.)</p>